GUILTY Canada - Marie-France Comeau, 37, & Jessica Lloyd, 27, slain, Ont, 2009 & 2010 - #7

[Hazel]

Everything you say makes complete sense and follows along the "typical" escalation pattern of deviants. It is possible that what has been released is the extent of his crime.

Unfortunately, I just don't think RW followed a "typical" pattern. He is a complete anamoly, and it's possible he was able to supress his evil urges by tiding himself over with panty raids etc., but that would imply some sort of conscience, which seems doubtful at this point.

He definitely plotted against and stalked other victims, there is no doubt.

I don't know if the entire truth of the depths of depravity will ever come out, and I don't know if we are prepared to handle it anyway. But, some sort of closure for other victims and their families is certainly necessary, and I hope they get it one way or the other.

I too have the feeling that there is more. It is not like he had a head injury or near death experience or something major that 'transformed' him into a 'monster' when in his forties.

No doubt he has some childhood trauma that contributed to him been who he is, but his brother had the same upbringing, and he seems to be normal, so I guess what I am trying to say is that RW was born with some kind of 'evil' disposition.

Only women in his life were: his mother, his first girlfriend (Japanese) and his wife.


There seems to be something 'off' about his sexuality IYKWIM. And he likes to do laundry and keep the kitchen and house spic and span.....the episode of him cleaning up the smudge on his stainless steel fridge is VERY telling....not only he couldn't wait for his friend to go to another room so he can clean it up and not been seen while doing so, but the 'ritual' of folding the cloth neatly and putting it back in the box! inside the drawer. This is only one example; I'm sure someone has witnessed many other 'odd' behaviour during the years.

For example, I cannot believe wearing women's underwear is something he started doing in his forties, but I guess we can chose to believe what our common sense tells us, or what other people want us to believe. I for one vote for common sense

 

[dotr]

|During the presentation to generals and admirals in June, the pollsters noted that public support for the military overall is seen as very strong and they assured Canadian Forces brass that the case of sex killer Russell Williams did not have any impact on that. Williams, who was a colonel in the Canadian Forces, was found guilty of two counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of Jessica Lloyd and Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, two counts of sexual assault and forcible confinement and 82 break-and-enters.


Williams, the former military commander at Canadian Forces Base Trenton, Ont., was sentenced in 2010 to life in prison.


Some in the military were particularly worried the Williams case could harm public attitudes towards the Canadian Forces.


The pollsters also concluded that soldiers have experienced the greatest increase in trust of any profession since 1998, beating out chiropractors and municipal politicians who came in second and third respectively.


The Canadian Forces is seen by the public as having integrity and being a good place to get an education or skills training".


Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/C...rk+home+poll/5916079/story.html#ixzz1hrwtAexW

 

[otto]

I too have the feeling that there is more. It is not like he had a head injury or near death experience or something major that 'transformed' him into a 'monster' when in his forties.

No doubt he has some childhood trauma that contributed to him been who he is, but his brother had the same upbringing, and he seems to be normal, so I guess what I am trying to say is that RW was born with some kind of 'evil' disposition.

Only women in his life were: his mother, his first girlfriend (Japanese) and his wife.


There seems to be something 'off' about his sexuality IYKWIM. And he likes to do laundry and keep the kitchen and house spic and span.....the episode of him cleaning up the smudge on his stainless steel fridge is VERY telling....not only he couldn't wait for his friend to go to another room so he can clean it up and not been seen while doing so, but the 'ritual' of folding the cloth neatly and putting it back in the box! inside the drawer. This is only one example; I'm sure someone has witnessed many other 'odd' behaviour during the years.

For example, I cannot believe wearing women's underwear is something he started doing in his forties, but I guess we can chose to believe what our common sense tells us, or what other people want us to believe. I for one vote for common sense

The author of Camouflaged Killer, in his consultation with experts, theorized that Williams fantasies with the bedrooms and underwear of teenage girls may suggest that this (his teenage years) is when his sexual sadism fantasies began. The experts were fairly certain that he tried his idea of dominance on his partners, but that was as far as it went until much later. It was also suggested that prednisone, which is known to reduce inhibitions and increase stamina, may have contributed to the transition from suppressed thoughts to murder.

 

[JayFriend]

The author of Camouflaged Killer, in his consultation with experts, theorized that Williams fantasies with the bedrooms and underwear of teenage girls may suggest that this (his teenage years) is when his sexual sadism fantasies began. The experts were fairly certain that he tried his idea of dominance on his partners, but that was as far as it went until much later. It was also suggested that prednisone, which is known to reduce inhibitions and increase stamina, may have contributed to the transition from suppressed thoughts to murder.

Probably another reason why his wife wants a publication ban on the divorce proceedings, although these days the law does not require a reason for divorce.

 

[otto]

Probably another reason why his wife wants a publication ban on the divorce proceedings, although these days the law does not require a reason for divorce.

He and his wife were no longer intimate, so there wouldn't be anything about their sex life in the divorce proceedings. In fact, the divorce would most likely be a no fault joint filing where neither party contests the divorce.

 

[LilyMacBloom]

He and his wife were no longer intimate, so there wouldn't be anything about their sex life in the divorce proceedings. In fact, the divorce would most likely be a no fault joint filing where neither party contests the divorce.

I'm just curious, where/from whom is the above information coming from and when? RW, the wife?? The last few posts is the first I've heard they weren't intimate. As they were living apart a good part of time it sort of sounds like the marriage was over already.

 

[flipflop]

I'm just curious, where/from whom is the above information coming from and when? RW, the wife?? The last few posts is the first I've heard they weren't intimate. As they were living apart a good part of time it sort of sounds like the marriage was over already.

The author of the book stated that RW made this info in a statement to LE. I cannot find which page it is on but if I remember correctly he stated that "his sexlife with his wife was nonexistent". That was the only indication that the marriage was anything negative IMO. RW's biggest concern was "the impact that this would have on his wife". He was still going home to their newly built home in Ottawa, he mentions taking her out for dinner etc. I still do not believe that she did not find anything in the home. Afterall, they just had moved into the new home, she had taken a week off work to unpack....hmmmm when I unpack I purge stuff in boxes and throw things out. All of the boxes of underwear were right under her nose...did she come across these boxes??? Did she question RW about them??
The author also mentioned that the wife still regularly visited the cottage on weekends, he questioned how RW was not concerned about his wife going to the cottage as she was off, if was the weekend and JL's body was in the garage while RW was flying to California. Everything was so very much accessable for the wife to stumble upon...from the dead body, underwear, etc but she remains quiet and we have no idea if she ever came across anything or ever wondered about his late night jogs, especially on special nights like new years eve, valentines day, easter, and a 17th wedding anniversary. Did she notice him leaving with his camera, tripod, balaklava etc??? The author also questions why his wife continued to visit him in prison while they exchanged some form of coded messages!?!

 

[Wondergirl]

The author of the book stated that RW made this info in a statement to LE. I cannot find which page it is on but if I remember correctly he stated that "his sexlife with his wife was nonexistent". That was the only indication that the marriage was anything negative IMO. RW's biggest concern was "the impact that this would have on his wife". He was still going home to their newly built home in Ottawa, he mentions taking her out for dinner etc. I still do not believe that she did not find anything in the home. Afterall, they just had moved into the new home, she had taken a week off work to unpack....hmmmm when I unpack I purge stuff in boxes and throw things out. All of the boxes of underwear were right under her nose...did she come across these boxes??? Did she question RW about them??
The author also mentioned that the wife still regularly visited the cottage on weekends, he questioned how RW was not concerned about his wife going to the cottage as she was off, if was the weekend and JL's body was in the garage while RW was flying to California. Everything was so very much accessable for the wife to stumble upon...from the dead body, underwear, etc but she remains quiet and we have no idea if she ever came across anything or ever wondered about his late night jogs, especially on special nights like new years eve, valentines day, easter, and a 17th wedding anniversary. Did she notice him leaving with his camera, tripod, balaklava etc??? The author also questions why his wife continued to visit him in prison while they exchanged some form of coded messages!?!

The people that work at the Pen know if she is visiting or not.

Coded messages? Really. Wow.

 

[Hazel]

He and his wife were no longer intimate, so there wouldn't be anything about their sex life in the divorce proceedings. In fact, the divorce would most likely be a no fault joint filing where neither party contests the divorce.

Totally agree with you about your "no contests" statement, so the only reason for the ban would be to prevent the public from finding out what was agreed in the 'domestic contract'.

otto, could you please refresh my memory regarding the 'couple' not being intimate?
Was that in TA's book? and if so, how is it that TA found that out?
I am wondering why would 'they' reveal that piece of info, which is something that IMO they could have kept private, no?

 

[otto]

I'm just curious, where/from whom is the above information coming from and when? RW, the wife?? The last few posts is the first I've heard they weren't intimate. As they were living apart a good part of time it sort of sounds like the marriage was over already.

The marriage was not over. They were very much together as a couple, they just weren't intimate anymore. That comes from the book Camouflaged Killer - the info is from Williams. They had two residences because she lived and worked in Ottawa and he was at the military base. The Tweed cottage was where he sometimes stayed during the week ... sometimes he stayed at the base. On weekends, sometimes she went to the cottage and sometimes he went to Ottawa.

 

[Hazel]

The final section of Camouflaged Killer is an examination of his psychological make up - several experts were consulted (provided complete documents). He is not a psychopath, but he is a sexual sadist. There is a suggestion that he explored some of this with girlfriends or wife earlier on. We have the Japanese girlfriend from University that cut off all contact with him and refuses to comment and he had no sex life with his wife.

I hear you otto, yep that is exactly what I thought from the start. I imagined (and this is just MOO) that might have been the reason gf1 broke up and didn't want any more contact with him. Am still wondering about gf2 ... are you saying otto they had no, zilch, nada, zero sex life EVER? reason why they 'knew' in advance, before the marriage, they will not have children? That just makes no sense at all to me :crazy:

 

[otto]

The author of the book stated that RW made this info in a statement to LE. I cannot find which page it is on but if I remember correctly he stated that "his sexlife with his wife was nonexistent". That was the only indication that the marriage was anything negative IMO. RW's biggest concern was "the impact that this would have on his wife". He was still going home to their newly built home in Ottawa, he mentions taking her out for dinner etc. I still do not believe that she did not find anything in the home. Afterall, they just had moved into the new home, she had taken a week off work to unpack....hmmmm when I unpack I purge stuff in boxes and throw things out. All of the boxes of underwear were right under her nose...did she come across these boxes??? Did she question RW about them??
The author also mentioned that the wife still regularly visited the cottage on weekends, he questioned how RW was not concerned about his wife going to the cottage as she was off, if was the weekend and JL's body was in the garage while RW was flying to California. Everything was so very much accessable for the wife to stumble upon...from the dead body, underwear, etc but she remains quiet and we have no idea if she ever came across anything or ever wondered about his late night jogs, especially on special nights like new years eve, valentines day, easter, and a 17th wedding anniversary. Did she notice him leaving with his camera, tripod, balaklava etc??? The author also questions why his wife continued to visit him in prison while they exchanged some form of coded messages!?!

I too have wondered why his wife was not more aware of what he was doing and what he had hidden under her nose, but in the context of his profession, it's not that difficult to understand. People in the military often have missions that are top secret. Spouses are not allowed to know where the military person is going or what they are doing. The spouse may hear something about it after the fact, but for the most part very little is shared. The spouse learns to respect that the military person has a part of their life where they cannot intrude. After many years of marriage, it's quite possible that Williams' wife simply did not snoop or interfere with his things. There were military duffle bags in the laundry area that were filled with stolen underwear. We wonder why his wife didn't open his duffle bags or packed boxes and look inside, but maybe, as a couple, they respected each others privacy and didn't snoop in boxes and bags that belonged to the other.

Recall that when his mother and brother attended a special function for Williams, others asked his wife where his mother and brother were staying during the visit. His wife had no idea ... claiming that was Williams' department. It seems that their lives were compartamentalized and his wife simply accepted that she only had some information ... after years of marriage, she simply accepted that he would tell her something if she needed to know.

 

[otto]

I hear you otto, yep that is exactly what I thought from the start. I imagined (and this is just MOO) that might have been the reason gf1 broke up and didn't want any more contact with him. Am still wondering about gf2 ... are you saying otto they had no, zilch, nada, zero sex life EVER? reason why they 'knew' in advance, before the marriage, they will not have children? That just makes no sense at all to me :crazy:

They were no longer intimate at the time of the murders, but nothing as been said about the early years during their marriage. I suspect they had a normal marriage early on. He didn't want children because he thought the world was not a good place for children.

 

[Hazel]

The author of the book stated that RW made this info in a statement to LE. I cannot find which page it is on but if I remember correctly he stated that "his sexlife with his wife was nonexistent". That was the only indication that the marriage was anything negative IMO. RW's biggest concern was "the impact that this would have on his wife". He was still going home to their newly built home in Ottawa, he mentions taking her out for dinner etc. I still do not believe that she did not find anything in the home. Afterall, they just had moved into the new home, she had taken a week off work to unpack....hmmmm when I unpack I purge stuff in boxes and throw things out. All of the boxes of underwear were right under her nose...did she come across these boxes??? Did she question RW about them??
The author also mentioned that the wife still regularly visited the cottage on weekends, he questioned how RW was not concerned about his wife going to the cottage as she was off, if was the weekend and JL's body was in the garage while RW was flying to California. Everything was so very much accessable for the wife to stumble upon...from the dead body, underwear, etc but she remains quiet and we have no idea if she ever came across anything or ever wondered about his late night jogs, especially on special nights like new years eve, valentines day, easter, and a 17th wedding anniversary. Did she notice him leaving with his camera, tripod, balaklava etc??? The author also questions why his wife continued to visit him in prison while they exchanged some form of coded messages!?!

Thank You Flip!

 

[Hazel]

They were no longer intimate at the time of the murders, but nothing as been said about the early years during their marriage. I suspect they had a normal marriage early on. He didn't want children because he thought the world was not a good place for children.

yeah right, because he cares so much for other people's children

Good thing he made the decision not to pass on his 'evil' genes.

IMHO, this is the area that 'the experts' should explore .... together with Flip's latest post, I'm sure we are getting very close, almost there ...

....why gf2 didn't just run like gf1 did?

 

[flipflop]

yeah right, because he cares so much for other people's children

Good thing he made the decision not to pass on his 'evil' genes.

IMHO, this is the area that 'the experts' should explore .... together with Flip's latest post, I'm sure we are getting very close, almost there ...

....why gf2 didn't just run like gf1 did?

The author finished the book saying that the most valuable insight to offer professionals remain with RW's parents, his wife and his exgirlfriends. His last line in the book reads "The final chapter remains to be written"

Hopefully one of those closest to RW's life at one time, will speak out (I doubt it) as this last chapter with this info would be interesting to read.

 

[flipflop]

http://www.camouflagedkiller.com/news--updates.html

In this link there is a YouTube video describing the book, at the tail end it states that the book is available and that it will soon be a motion picture.

The book was very well written and I learned more details to this case as I kept reading. As for the movie...I really feel for his victims, the very detailed events that took place with his 2 murdered victims as well as his rape victims, also the victims who did not even know they were victims until LE came knocking on their door. I cannot imagine being one of those involved in this case and actually watching or even just knowing that others are watching the movie of a case that directly involved them. As for RW's family...they are a different kind of victim (I do feel for them as well, but in a different way)

 

[otto]

yeah right, because he cares so much for other people's children

Good thing he made the decision not to pass on his 'evil' genes.

IMHO, this is the area that 'the experts' should explore .... together with Flip's latest post, I'm sure we are getting very close, almost there ...

....why gf2 didn't just run like gf1 did?

He had a girlfriend in high school and another girlfriend (the woman from Japan) in University. No one that knew him in high school was willing to talk about him, many people didn't even remember him. After his Japanese girlfriend dropped him, he was reportedly without a girlfriend until he met his wife. His close friend was surprised to learn that he was getting married as he didn't know that Williams had a girlfriend. It seems that Williams was very private about girlfriends and they are very private about him.

What the experts said, according to the author, is that it's very likely that Williams tried out his inclination in sexual sadism early on with his partners. It's equally possible that that cost him his Japanese girlfriend and that he then learned to put on the brakes with other women. The author suggests that Williams may have begun fantasizing and developing fetishes about women's underwear as a teenager, possibly because he may have seen his mother half dressed too often. He seems to have lost control over his urges in 2007, which coincides with additional responsibilities at work and a concoction of prescription medication for a back injury (including prednisone).

Side effects of prednisone: "Prednisone may cause insomnia, mood changes, personality changes, euphoria, psychotic behavior, or severe depression. It may even worsen any existing emotional instability in some individuals."

 

[otto]

http://www.camouflagedkiller.com/news--updates.html

In this link there is a YouTube video describing the book, at the tail end it states that the book is available and that it will soon be a motion picture.

The book was very well written and I learned more details to this case as I kept reading. As for the movie...I really feel for his victims, the very detailed events that took place with his 2 murdered victims as well as his rape victims, also the victims who did not even know they were victims until LE came knocking on their door. I cannot imagine being one of those involved in this case and actually watching or even just knowing that others are watching the movie of a case that directly involved them. As for RW's family...they are a different kind of victim (I do feel for them as well, but in a different way)

I suspect the movie will be more about how Williams compartamentalized his life into two separate people. If any details were illustrated about the 4 and 22 hour attacks, the film would be nothing more than *advertiser censored*.

 

[flipflop]

He had a girlfriend in high school and another girlfriend (the woman from Japan) in University. No one that knew him in high school was willing to talk about him, many people didn't even remember him. After his Japanese girlfriend dropped him, he was reportedly without a girlfriend until he met his wife. His close friend was surprised to learn that he was getting married as he didn't know that Williams had a girlfriend. It seems that Williams was very private about girlfriends and they are very private about him.

What the experts said, according to the author, is that it's very likely that Williams tried out his inclination in sexual sadism early on with his partners. It's equally possible that that cost him his Japanese girlfriend and that he then learned to put on the brakes with other women. The author suggests that Williams may have begun fantasizing and developing fetishes about women's underwear as a teenager, possibly because he may have seen his mother half dressed too often. He seems to have lost control over his urges in 2007, which coincides with additional responsibilities at work and a concoction of prescription medication for a back injury (including prednisone).

Side effects of prednisone: "Prednisone may cause insomnia, mood changes, personality changes, euphoria, psychotic behavior, or severe depression. It may even worsen any existing emotional instability in some individuals."

The bolded statement makes sense to me. When he was dating his gf I believe he tried some weird things that scared off these girls. With his past growing up with a mother who ships him off to boarding school (it also mentioned in the book that holidays such as Christmas and Thanksgiving were spent at school) It makes me feel that he did not have a close and loving mother as many of us do. Together with his sadistic sexual needs and the hatred towards his mother (Im guessing from his cold past) he had a hate on for woman that was buried deep inside him. He went for a few years after his break up until the time he met and married his wife, his needs and hatred would have been festering inside him. We do not know when or for how long his nonexistant sexlife with his wife started (would be interesting to learn this) So again, another woman close to him has turned cold towards him for whatever reason. I wish his family would speak up...we could learn so much more about him.