CANADA - shooter in RCMP vehicle & uniform, 22 killed (plus perp), Portapique, NS, 18 April 2020 #2

[Satchie]

If police arrive to shooting and fires and dead victims.. and 'seems' is all they've got.. one might hope that might be enough to at least be wary of it and perhaps advise whoever would have an interest in knowing? In the quoted post above, it seems you are speaking of 'heading to *his* residence', accounting for *his* three cars, and how his cars were accounted for at *his* house. I haven't suggested that police should've known WHO the suspect was.. but they had a LIVE victim telling them he'd been shot at by a guy in a police vehicle. Why not run with *that*? imo. It's not like they had to figure out the 'who' at that point, and where he lived and how many replicas he owned and whether or not they were all accounted for before warning other police and public?

I'm not sure who or what you're asking, but my response is
1. We don't know precisely what words were spoken by whom when, we only have a vague account based on a reconstruction that tries to tie together loose threads to make a coherent narrative for armchair readers
2. We have the advantage of hindsight
3. We have the luxury of focussing on tiny details and discussing them for hours, unlike police who were dealing with very large amounts of information coming at them from all sides, in a state of high emergency as other people's and their own lives were threatened, out there in the dark.

If you want to insist that RCMP officers on the job should have had certain thoughts, drawn certain conclusions , okay. For me, that's a level of back seat driving I don't feel confident about.

 

[Vern]

Why would they assume and believe the shooter was no longer likely to be driving it? LE showed up to bodies, fires and mayhem and were given a witness account that the perp was driving a police vehicle. I'm not educated on police matters, but if it were me, I'd hope police would have shared that piece of information with other police, and I would think it would be quite pertinent to use every means possible to advise the public as well, in case they might see an officer show up at their door, or an officer pull their vehicle over? It seems like you are believing they had their entire investigation already wrapped up with a bow at the same time they heard from the live shooting victim, which they did not,.. or at least such an assumption should not have been made at that early point in time? jmo.

BBM: "what seemed to be a police vehicle"; again 'seemed' being pretty important. They encountered this victim on the way in to the party crime scene … at that crime scene they would have talked with survivors who could identify this perp and who knew he owned a replica cop car. They then went to his place which was also in flames … replica police car burning in his yard. They checked the system. he owned three. All three are there, burning, including a replica RCMP car. Why send an alert when all his vehicles, including a fake RCMP car, are accounted for at his house. ??

Because they knew who they were after from the survivors at the party at the neighbours place. He and his girlfriend had been at that party. Those survivors could identify who the perp was and I am more than confident that they did do so. The RCMP then went to his residence to find it in flames. Along with a torched replica police car. They checked his registered vehicles out on the system and found he owned 3 vehicles (the MSM reference to 'he only had three registered vehicles' is linked in here somewhere). He only 'officially' had three of them and they were physically present at the house … on fire.

At 0630 the next morning, they learned that he actually had a 4th, unregistered vehicle, that was also a fake-RCMP car.

 

[deugirtni]

Especially as they had located a torched replica Police car at his burning residence along with the two other vehicles he had registered.

They'd already talked to survivors from the party too … they knew who they were looking for.

IMO, they believed he had also killed the girlfriend and suicided and was inside that house. Boy, were they in for a shock when she walked out of the woods at 0630hrs and told them there was another, unregistered, also fake-RCMP vehicle out there.

It seems they had a wealth of information some eight hours *before* the gf ever walked out of the woods. Not sure why they would need her to tell them he had a 4th vehicle, when 8 hours earlier, they knew the perp was driving what looked to be a police vehicle. They needed to know exactly who and what he was wearing and receive confirmation there were even more than three cop cars that one person suspected might have at his disposal, and get a photo of the exact vehicle before they could act on one of the very first pieces of info they received from a witness at the very beginning? That seems to be what is being suggested? Perhaps the murdered Mountie might still be alive if she'd had that warning communicated to her the night before?

 

[deugirtni]

I'm not sure who or what you're asking, but my response is
1. We don't know precisely what words were spoken by whom when, we only have a vague account based on a reconstruction that tries to tie together loose threads to make a coherent narrative for armchair readers
2. We have the advantage of hindsight
3. We have the luxury of focussing on tiny details and discussing them for hours, unlike police who were dealing with very large amounts of information coming at them from all sides, in a state of high emergency as other people's and their own lives were threatened, out there in the dark.

If you want to insist that RCMP officers on the job should have had certain thoughts, drawn certain conclusions , okay. For me, that's a level of back seat driving I don't feel confident about.

I'm saying RCMP officers on the job had a live victim who gave them a description of the perp in that he looked to be driving a police vehicle. And I'm suggesting why not run with that as at least a possibility worthy of warning others about? I have read that LE didn't know this until the gf came out of the woods early the next morning. So I am feeling a bit shocked to read they knew it way back at the very beginning around 10:30pm the night before.

 

[Kent]

It seems they had a wealth of information some eight hours *before* the gf ever walked out of the woods. Not sure why they would need her to tell them he had a 4th vehicle, when 8 hours earlier, they knew the perp was driving what looked to be a police vehicle. They needed to know exactly who and what he was wearing and receive confirmation there were even more than three cop cars that one person suspected might have at his disposal, and get a photo of the exact vehicle before they could act on one of the very first pieces of info they received from a witness at the very beginning? That seems to be what is being suggested? Perhaps the murdered Mountie might still be alive if she'd had that warning communicated to her the night before?

Can you see how irresponsible it would have been to vaguely alert the public that a shooting was committed by someone in a car that *may* have looked like a police car? Especially when all the evidence in front of them pointed toward the suspect no longer having access to a police-like vehicle? It would have put their own officers at risk, to start with.

I'm not sure what's made you think the police weren't given all the available information about what type of car he was or may have been driving?

 

[Vern]

It seems they had a wealth of information some eight hours *before* the gf ever walked out of the woods. Not sure why they would need her to tell them he had a 4th vehicle, when 8 hours earlier, they knew the perp was driving what looked to be a police vehicle. They needed to know exactly who and what he was wearing and receive confirmation there were even more than three cop cars that one person suspected might have at his disposal, and get a photo of the exact vehicle before they could act on one of the very first pieces of info they received from a witness at the very beginning? That seems to be what is being suggested? Perhaps the murdered Mountie might still be alive if she'd had that warning communicated to her the night before?

Because there was a fake RCMP vehicle burning in his yard.

I serve this country. That murdered Mountie, Constable Heidi Stevenson, that is her name, knew he was driving a fake-RCMP car before she encountered him. The alert was out on that PRIOR to their head-on and her murder.

Please do not suggest what I think you are suggesting that they are complicit in her death. 10 000% not acceptable nor appropriate. She served this country with honour as do every single one of her fellow Mounties.

I will remember her.

 

[Vern]

Yes, it does seem that they knew from very early on that GW *had been* driving some sort of police vehicle when he shot the surviving victim, but they had no reason to believe that he was still driving one because all three of his known vehicles were accounted for (two burning in Portapique, one at his home/office in Dartmouth).

Combined with the fact that no further incidents were being reported since Cluster 1 (Portapique victims) or elsewhere overnight Saturday night while his house and replica car burned ...

 

[Peace777]

Hmm so RCMP knew the night of the 18th that per a witness/shooting victim who was going to the hospital the shooter was driving a "police vehicle". They already had this information before the guy's gf now "partner" even told RCMP.
Nova Scotia shooting: RCMP describe what was found at shooting suspect’s home | Watch News Videos Online

 

[Vern]

Hmm so RCMP knew the night of the 18th that per a witness/shooting victim who was going to the hospital the shooter was driving a "police vehicle". They already had this information before the guy's gf now "partner" even told RCMP.
Nova Scotia shooting: RCMP describe what was found at shooting suspect’s home | Watch News Videos Online

Yep; what "seemed to be like a police vehicle" … and one of those was burning in his yard Saturday night along with his house. All three of his registered vehicles, including a fake-RCMP car, were accounted for … Saturday night.

See all the posts on this just ahead of yours.

It was his girlfriend/partner (depends which news source you use, what they call her - absolutely nothing hincky about that) who was "the critical witness" who told them, Saturday morning when she came out of the woods, there's actually a fourth unregistered (and unplated) vehicle which also happens to be another fake-RCMP car.

 

[Peace777]

Combined with the fact that no further incidents were being reported since Cluster 1 (Portapique victims) or elsewhere overnight Saturday night while his house and replica car burned ...

He had 2 fake RCMP vehicles?

 

[1214SD]

The shooter killed 13 people at eight locations on Portapique Rd., Orchard Beach Dr. and Cobequid Ct., and started five different fires. That takes a significant amount of time. We know that the police arrived at 10:26 p.m. on April 18, but do we know at what time his altercation with the girlfriend began? At what time his shooting rampage began? How far into his rampage he was when the first emergency call was made?… The girlfriend should have answers to the first two questions. I hope she was asked these questions by police, and am curious to know why police didn’t begin their timeline with that information, instead of starting their timeline with their arrival in Portapique at 10:26 p.m.?…

Was the rampage over by the time police arrived on scene, or did police hear shots being fired while there? I haven’t heard, or read, anything indicating that police or EMS on scene heard gunfire. IMO, given that the wounded driver encountered police while still in his car on the way out of the neighborhood, it is logical to conclude that his shooting had happened very recently (I doubt he would linger if he was in need or urgent medical help and was fearful he might be shot again), which means the shooter was still in the neighborhood and needed to get out to avoid capture. Since the shooter had to assume that the wounded victim noticed he was driving a mocked-up RCMP cruiser, he likely wouldn’t have risked driving past the real police at the north end of Portapique Beach Rd. on to highway #2, and would have taken a right onto Orchard Beach Dr. and cut through the field beyond the north end of Orchard Beach Dr., to the side road out of the neighborhood, putting his likely departure from the scene slightly after 10:30 p.m.

Also, I believe in one of the police pressers over the past few days, I can’t recall if it was Supt. Campbell on Friday or RCMP Chief Supt. Chris Leather on Wednesday, that the shooter’s fourth mocked-up police car was described as, “registered, but not plated”. It is also my understanding that two of his mocked-up cruisers were ablaze at 136 Orchard Beach Dr. when police arrived on April 18, and another had been accounted for at his office/home in Dartmouth shortly after police arrived on scene in Portapique. I am not familiar with the Canadian system for registering vehicles, but I wonder if that points to another potential police screw-up: perhaps they didn’t initially check if a fourth vehicle had been registered, only that no others had been plated?

 

[Vern]

He had 2 fake RCMP vehicles?

His hobby was mocking up replica police cars. He had a couple of them. He had three vehicles registered as per RCMP. Three vehicles were accounted for Saturday night. Two vehicles, including a replica police car were on fire along with his residence in Portapique Saturday night. The third was confirmed to be at his residence in Dartmouth.

They didn't know a fourth vehicle existed until Saturday morning when she told the RCMP that.

 

[paganini]

At 0630 the next morning, they learned that he actually had a 4th, unregistered vehicle, that was also a fake-RCMP car.

We don’t know when they learned about 4th car except that it was after 630. Remember the woman had been badly beaten, was in shock according to police, and likely was hypothermic. Also, when she said he has a replica car, they likely said, “We know. They are burned up.” It would have taken at least a bit of time to get and sort out her information.

 

[Vern]

RSBM ...
I am not familiar with the Canadian system for registering vehicles, but I wonder if that points to another potential police screw-up: perhaps they didn’t initially check if a fourth vehicle had been registered, only that no others had been plated?

RCMP stated he only had three vehicles registered.

Registration = ownership / ability to sell;
Plated = ability to operate.

Where they earlier stated he only had three registered, I suspect another one of his vehicles had not yet been registered. Serendipitous things ... three vehicles registered and three accounted for.

One of his vehicles was not registered else they would have been looking to account for a 4th vehicle Saturday night prior to her coming out of the woods Sunday morning.

 

[Vern]

We don’t know when they learned about 4th car except that it was after 630. Remember the woman had been badly beaten, was in shock according to police, and likely was hypothermic. Also, when she said he has a replica car, they likely said, “We know. They are burned up.” It would have taken at least a bit of time to get and sort out her information.

No, you're right. It was, at the earliest, 0630 when she came out of the woods. I suspect it was rather instantaneously just before they tweeted that fact and BOLO out on twitter.

 

[Kent]

RCMP stated he only had three vehicles registered.

Registration = ownership / ability to sell;
Plated = ability to operate.

Where they earlier stated he only had three registered, I suspect another one of his vehicles had not yet been registered. Serendipitous things ... three vehicles registered and three accounted for.

One of his vehicles was not registered else they would have been looking to account for a 4th vehicle Saturday night prior to her coming out of the woods Sunday morning.

Just to be completely in line with what the RCMP have stated, the 4th vehicle was registered but not plated. The press conference video clip is here - skip to 47:35:

 

[Peace777]

I remember reading that the gf was treated for shock, so I imagine she was frozen and couldn’t function as she was in shock in the woods.

Yes sounds like she went through a harrowing experience before her boyfriend went on the rampage. Maybe she went to sleep and lost track of time? But you would think the firetruck sirens or police sirens would be enough to wake a person up and hopefully would know help has arrived. Sounds like there was a lot of commotion going on all around that area. JMO

 

[paganini]

He had 2 fake RCMP vehicles?

He had at least 3 decomissioned police vehicles plus another white Taurus at his Dartmouth address.

 

[Vern]

Just to be completely in line with what the RCMP have stated, the 4th vehicle was registered but not plated. The press conference video clip is here - skip to 47:35:

The 4th vehicle being, specifically, the fake car he used.

They earlier sated that he only had 3 vehicles registered.

Both are possible. Perhaps, one that was burning was not registered? That would = 3 registered vehicles and three vehicles accounted for. They'd still have not known there was an actual "4th" car until the morning.

 

[Peace777]

DBM