CANADA - shooter in RCMP vehicle & uniform, 22 killed (plus perp), Portapique, NS, 18 April 2020 #2

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sorry but that still doesn't answer the question of them knowing via the 1 shot witness that it was a guy driving what was a "police car". I'm sure he told the RCMP which direction that vehicle was headed, maybe out of the area? I can't imagine the RCMP had thought 1 of their own had gone "rogue". I'm confused.
IIRC, he told the RCMP that GW was heading south on Portapique Beach Road - further into Portapique and toward his home. It seems that the RCMP very quickly identified GW as a suspect and learned that he had police-like cars, so there was an explanation for the man's story.
 
Why would they assume and believe the shooter was no longer likely to be driving it? LE showed up to bodies, fires and mayhem and were given a witness account that the perp was driving a police vehicle. I'm not educated on police matters, but if it were me, I'd hope police would have shared that piece of information with other police, and I would think it would be quite pertinent to use every means possible to advise the public as well, in case they might see an officer show up at their door, or an officer pull their vehicle over? It seems like you are believing they had their entire investigation already wrapped up with a bow at the same time they heard from the live shooting victim, which they did not,.. or at least such an assumption should not have been made at that early point in time? jmo.
Some on here are saying this killer was seen going back towards the beach area after shooting the 1 guy driving his car. Another fake cop car was burning outside his burning residence and I guess the RCMP assumed he could be in the burning house so no need to put out a BOLO for a fake/ replica RCMP vehicle. Police still should have IMO put that out there just in case there were more shooters and fake cars driving around . At that point they didn't know this guy was the only shooter did they? I'm too confused so I'm leaving this case now. The guy is dead anyways thank goodness. RIP to all the victims
 
The 4th vehicle being, specifically, the fake car he used.

They earlier sated that he only had 3 vehicles registered.

Both are possible. Perhaps, one that was burning was not registered? That would = 3 registered vehicles and three vehicles accounted for. They'd still have not known there was an actual "4th" car until the morning.
My point in mentioning this is that it seems like the police only checked their database for "plated vehicles" on Saturday night, but apparently did not check the database for "registered vehicles" until Sunday. Had they checked the registered vehicle database on Saturday night, they would have been aware while they were on the scene in Portapique that there was a fourth vehicle, and that not all of the shooter's mocked-up police cars had been accounted for. That would have, and should have, significantly altered how they proceeded from that point on. They would not have concluded the shooter had committed suicide had they been aware of a fourth registered vehicle. My point in mentioning the injured driver in my previous post was also aimed at the police response. A man had driven up to the officers on scene, recently shot. I know they were dealing with a lot, but they should have realized that there was not enough time between that shooting and their arrival for the shooter to have gone from Portapique Beach Rd., where that shooting of the injured driver occurred, back to 136 Orchard Beach Dr. and set the mocked-up police car on fire. They also should have realized that the gunman was likely further down Portapique Rd. It is possible that the shooter returned heading northbound on Portapique Rd. while the police were gathering information from the injured driver, and turned right onto Orchard Beach Rd. and escaped before police began a search for him.
 
It seems they had a wealth of information some eight hours *before* the gf ever walked out of the woods. Not sure why they would need her to tell them he had a 4th vehicle, when 8 hours earlier, they knew the perp was driving what looked to be a police vehicle. They needed to know exactly who and what he was wearing and receive confirmation there were even more than three cop cars that one person suspected might have at his disposal, and get a photo of the exact vehicle before they could act on one of the very first pieces of info they received from a witness at the very beginning? That seems to be what is being suggested? Perhaps the murdered Mountie might still be alive if she'd had that warning communicated to her the night before?

They didn't really have all the information. According to their records, the suspect had 3 vehicles and all were accounted for. They could cross him off their list, regardless of what anyone said about a fake police car. 8 hours later, they discovered that he had a 4th car. Only then could they take the first report seriously.

Reporting that someone identified the suspect and the fact that he was driving a police-looking car the night before, but it turns out all vehicles owned by that man are at his house, doesn't help.

ETA: Registered but not plated means that a fourth car belonged to him, but had no insurance or plates and could not be legally driven on roads. I wonder if that was enough for them to dismiss it? Did they know that it existed?
 
Yes sounds like she went through a harrowing experience before her boyfriend went on the rampage. Maybe she went to sleep and lost track of time? But you would think the firetruck sirens or police sirens would be enough to wake a person up and hopefully would know help has arrived. Sounds like there was a lot of commotion going on all around that area. JMO

If she had a head injury during captivity and before she escaped, she might have missed some of it. Maybe escaping was so traumatic that she fell into a deep asleep.
 
Some on here are saying this killer was seen going back towards the beach area after shooting the 1 guy driving his car. Another fake cop car was burning outside his burning residence and I guess the RCMP assumed he could be in the burning house so no need to put out a BOLO for a fake/ replica RCMP vehicle. Police still should have IMO put that out there just in case there were more shooters and fake cars driving around . At that point they didn't know this guy was the only shooter did they? I'm too confused so I'm leaving this case now. The guy is dead anyways thank goodness. RIP to all the victims

I'm curious about how things unfolded as well, wondering how he sorted it out - because we know that he had it figured out well in advance. What route did he take?

upload_2020-4-26_1-27-19.png

Nova Scotia shootings: The RCMP’s step-by-step account of what happened (full transcript) - Macleans.ca
 
Last edited:
My point in mentioning this is that it seems like the police only checked their database for "plated vehicles" on Saturday night, but apparently did not check the database for "registered vehicles" until Sunday. Had they checked the registered vehicle database on Saturday night, they would have been aware while they were on the scene in Portapique that there was a fourth vehicle, and that not all of the shooter's mocked-up police cars had been accounted for. That would have, and should have, significantly altered how they proceeded from that point on. They would not have concluded the shooter had committed suicide had they been aware of a fourth registered vehicle. My point in mentioning the injured driver in my previous post was also aimed at the police response. A man had driven up to the officers on scene, recently shot. I know they were dealing with a lot, but they should have realized that there was not enough time between that shooting and their arrival for the shooter to have gone from Portapique Beach Rd., where that shooting of the injured driver occurred, back to 136 Orchard Beach Dr. and set the mocked-up police car on fire. They also should have realized that the gunman was likely further down Portapique Rd. It is possible that the shooter returned heading northbound on Portapique Rd. while the police were gathering information from the injured driver, and turned right onto Orchard Beach Rd. and escaped before police began a search for him.

It seems normal that RCMP, having heard about a shooter, and having been told his name and that he was driving a police car, would check to see whether all his vehicles could be located. Having found at least one fake police car, they might have assumed there was only one and it was addressed. No one expected that he would be so well planned that he would torch a fake police car at his home while driving another - thereby leaving police thinking they had found the car in question when there were two.
 
How would you know which specific database was checked thou? And do you know for sure there is even more than one to check for vehicle ownership in Nova Scotia? We don't know if the 4th car was acquired off the books but it sounds likely it was. We also do not know at what point throughout the night he became a suspect.

If you are not familiar with the area, it is dark with huge lots and houses set back, no street lights, no google mapping, dirt roads, remote, spotty cell phone coverage, etc. I spent several summers living with family one road over and can't imagine how chaotic it must have been for those arriving on scene. Finding survivors and victims throughout the area would have been a challenge - some of the seasonal homes would be vacant right now, several properties have no residence at all, 2 sets of scared children alone, people hiding out in the woods, houses on fire, some with deceased victims both inside and outside, body on the roadway, survivor with gun shot wounds... He left this neighbourhood in complete chaos.

My point in mentioning this is that it seems like the police only checked their database for "plated vehicles" on Saturday night, but apparently did not check the database for "registered vehicles" until Sunday. Had they checked the registered vehicle database on Saturday night, they would have been aware while they were on the scene in Portapique that there was a fourth vehicle, and that not all of the shooter's mocked-up police cars had been accounted for. That would have, and should have, significantly altered how they proceeded from that point on. They would not have concluded the shooter had committed suicide had they been aware of a fourth registered vehicle. My point in mentioning the injured driver in my previous post was also aimed at the police response. A man had driven up to the officers on scene, recently shot. I know they were dealing with a lot, but they should have realized that there was not enough time between that shooting and their arrival for the shooter to have gone from Portapique Beach Rd., where that shooting of the injured driver occurred, back to 136 Orchard Beach Dr. and set the mocked-up police car on fire. They also should have realized that the gunman was likely further down Portapique Rd. It is possible that the shooter returned heading northbound on Portapique Rd. while the police were gathering information from the injured driver, and turned right onto Orchard Beach Rd. and escaped before police began a search for him.
 
Also to add, I've never been through police academy, but I suspect one rule is that, when tracking down a rampaging killer, you focus your efforts on the area where he was last seen, until a solid lead takes you elsewhere.

Police had no evidence he'd left the scene, they couldn't afford the time and energy to speculate on scenarios, such as he jumped in a boat and was headed for New Brunswick, etc. They had to protect the neighbourhood where he was known to have just been shooting, killing and setting fires.

Just because we now know what happened, doesn't mean police should have known what was going to happen.
 
My point in mentioning this is that it seems like the police only checked their database for "plated vehicles" on Saturday night, but apparently did not check the database for "registered vehicles" until Sunday. Had they checked the registered vehicle database on Saturday night, they would have been aware while they were on the scene in Portapique that there was a fourth vehicle, and that not all of the shooter's mocked-up police cars had been accounted for. That would have, and should have, significantly altered how they proceeded from that point on. They would not have concluded the shooter had committed suicide had they been aware of a fourth registered vehicle. My point in mentioning the injured driver in my previous post was also aimed at the police response. A man had driven up to the officers on scene, recently shot. I know they were dealing with a lot, but they should have realized that there was not enough time between that shooting and their arrival for the shooter to have gone from Portapique Beach Rd., where that shooting of the injured driver occurred, back to 136 Orchard Beach Dr. and set the mocked-up police car on fire. They also should have realized that the gunman was likely further down Portapique Rd. It is possible that the shooter returned heading northbound on Portapique Rd. while the police were gathering information from the injured driver, and turned right onto Orchard Beach Rd. and escaped before police began a search for him.

I don't think we have enough information to analyze or be critical of the RCMP's response, especially in terms of timing when we have absolutely no timeline for the specific events in Portapique. We have no idea how much time passed from the injured man spoke with RCMP to when officers found the burning cars. It likely wasn't until additional officers arrived on scene (from 50+km away) that GW's properties were searched and the burning cars found.
 
I don't think we have enough information to analyze or be critical of the RCMP's response, especially in terms of timing when we have absolutely no timeline for the specific events in Portapique. We have no idea how much time passed from the injured man spoke with RCMP to when officers found the burning cars. It likely wasn't until additional officers arrived on scene (from 50+km away) that GW's properties were searched and the burning cars found.

If reports that his house and 3 cars were burnt are correct, I think RCMP probably checked his property at the time that other fires were set - between 9:30 and 11:30 - roughly. He had 4 cars, two outfitted as RCMP cars, 3 were registered and insured. He was driving one of the RCMP-looking cars - not registered (plates) or insured, the other was burning at his house.
 
Yes sounds like she went through a harrowing experience before her boyfriend went on the rampage. Maybe she went to sleep and lost track of time? But you would think the firetruck sirens or police sirens would be enough to wake a person up and hopefully would know help has arrived. Sounds like there was a lot of commotion going on all around that area. JMO
But even if she heard sirens and saw police cars, she still knew the man who wanted to kill her was also in a cop car and had rifles. So she had a reason to be afraid of walking out of the woods, without knowing where he was.
 
It seems normal that RCMP, having heard about a shooter, and having been told his name and that he was driving a police car, would check to see whether all his vehicles could be located. Having found at least one fake police car, they might have assumed there was only one and it was addressed. No one expected that he would be so well planned that he would torch a fake police car at his home while driving another - thereby leaving police thinking they had found the car in question when there were two.
RCMP officers who were not on the scene in Portapique were conducting a background check according to Supt. Campbell, and believed that the shooter had three mocked-up vehicles with license plates under his name. They relayed that information to officers at the crime scene in Portapique, and sent other officers to check the shooter's residence/denturist office in Dartmouth. They found one car at his Dartmouth address, and two, on fire, at his Portapique address on Orchard Beach Rd. The RCMP somehow missed that he had a fourth mocked-up car that was registered under his name. That car did not have plates issued, but the registration should have turned up in the background check. Supt. Campbell said that the RCMP was able to confirm the registration the following morning, 4/19. But the RCMP should explain how the officers doing the background check missed that on Saturday night.
 
They didn't really have all the information. According to their records, the suspect had 3 vehicles and all were accounted for. They could cross him off their list, regardless of what anyone said about a fake police car. 8 hours later, they discovered that he had a 4th car. Only then could they take the first report seriously.

Reporting that someone identified the suspect and the fact that he was driving a police-looking car the night before, but it turns out all vehicles owned by that man are at his house, doesn't help.

ETA: Registered but not plated means that a fourth car belonged to him, but had no insurance or plates and could not be legally driven on roads. I wonder if that was enough for them to dismiss it? Did they know that it existed?
They absolutely *didn't* have all the info at the beginning, which is exactly my point. Why would anyone figure LE needed to have all this stuff figured out in totality before acting on one important piece of witness evidence?

Why would they NOT 'take the first report seriously'? Why think a suspect causing such mayhem would be concerned about driving an unlicensed vehicle, or that he was even driving his own vehicle?
 
Also to add, I've never been through police academy, but I suspect one rule is that, when tracking down a rampaging killer, you focus your efforts on the area where he was last seen, until a solid lead takes you elsewhere.

Police had no evidence he'd left the scene, they couldn't afford the time and energy to speculate on scenarios, such as he jumped in a boat and was headed for New Brunswick, etc. They had to protect the neighbourhood where he was known to have just been shooting, killing and setting fires.

Just because we now know what happened, doesn't mean police should have known what was going to happen.
I don't think anyone here is saying police should have known what was going to happen.

They *did* have fresh witness info that he was likely driving what appeared to be a police vehicle. Why not take whatever measures possible to protect both themselves and the public based on what they did know, while at the same time starting their investigation? This witness was injured and taken to hospital, so it seems he was likely one of the priority persons to interview, considering he was still alive.

A mass murderer unaccounted for, probably driving a police vehicle; in addition to setting houses on fire and killing residents at their homes in Portapique, he was also reportedly shooting at random drivers on the road. How is this information not worthy of being relayed on Saturday night?
 
If reports that his house and 3 cars were burnt are correct, I think RCMP probably checked his property at the time that other fires were set - between 9:30 and 11:30 - roughly. He had 4 cars, two outfitted as RCMP cars, 3 were registered and insured. He was driving one of the RCMP-looking cars - not registered (plates) or insured, the other was burning at his house.
I imagine the first few RCMP officers in Portapique focused on attending to the immediate scene and blocking off the main road. If they arrived in Portapique at 10:26pm, as they reported in Friday's press conference, it seems like it would have been well after 11pm before they had enough officers on site to begin a real search.
 
I don't think anyone here is saying police should have known what was going to happen.

They *did* have fresh witness info that he was likely driving what appeared to be a police vehicle. Why not take whatever measures possible to protect both themselves and the public based on what they did know, while at the same time starting their investigation? This witness was injured and taken to hospital, so it seems he was likely one of the priority persons to interview, considering he was still alive.

A mass murderer unaccounted for, probably driving a police vehicle; in addition to setting houses on fire and killing residents at their homes in Portapique, he was also reportedly shooting at random drivers on the road. How is this information not worthy of being relayed on Saturday night?

I don’t recall reading anything to indicate the shooter was actively shooting at random drivers on the road after police arrived on site to discover the devastation at Portapique that same Saturday evening.
 
About the various vehicles, this was my understanding -
Three decommissioned police cruisers were known - 2 were set ablaze at GWs residence that was also torched. There were a total of 3 vehicles burning at this location, presumably the 3rd was a personal vehicle used by the couple to drive to Portapique.
- the 3rd decommissioned cruiser was parked at his business in Dartmouth (later photographed by media as well).
- the 4th cruiser (mockup) had been stored in a garage at a 2nd property which GW owned in Portapique. This was the cruiser the girlfriend alerted the RCMP of and the one GW used to commit the atrocities.

I distinctly recall during one of the press conferences the RCMP stating they were not aware of the existence of this 4th cruiser.
 
I don't think anyone here is saying police should have known what was going to happen.

They *did* have fresh witness info that he was likely driving what appeared to be a police vehicle. Why not take whatever measures possible to protect both themselves and the public based on what they did know, while at the same time starting their investigation? This witness was injured and taken to hospital, so it seems he was likely one of the priority persons to interview, considering he was still alive.

A mass murderer unaccounted for, probably driving a police vehicle; in addition to setting houses on fire and killing residents at their homes in Portapique, he was also reportedly shooting at random drivers on the road. How is this information not worthy of being relayed on Saturday night?

No one knows what the surviving victim said to the police. He could have said looks like unmarked police vehicle, looks like fully marked police vehicle with lights etc, or he could have said looks like retired/decommissioned police vehicle.

Every one of these would have elicited a different response from attending officers. If he had three "police type" vehicles registered, and they accounted for three "police type" vehicles, why should they think he "might" have a fourth, and possibly cause panic and officer safety issues by alerting the public of a suspicion?

When they had actual documentation of the fully marked and kitted vehicle provided by the partner, then they took appropriate action and alerted via Twitter (which wasn't enough IMO).
 
It seems normal that RCMP, having heard about a shooter, and having been told his name and that he was driving a police car, would check to see whether all his vehicles could be located. Having found at least one fake police car, they might have assumed there was only one and it was addressed. No one expected that he would be so well planned that he would torch a fake police car at his home while driving another - thereby leaving police thinking they had found the car in question when there were two.

There were a actually 4 mock cruisers. LE knew of 3 and on Saturday night they had found all three accounted for. 2 burning at one of his buildings in Portapique and one parked at his residence in Halifax.

At that point they suspected he may have killed himself inside the burning building in Portapique.

In reality he had fled in a forth unplated, unregistered mock cruiser that had been stored at a second building in Portapique.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
67
Guests online
3,544
Total visitors
3,611

Forum statistics

Threads
592,113
Messages
17,963,401
Members
228,686
Latest member
Pabo1998
Back
Top