CANADA Canada - Susan Tice, 45, & Erin Gilmour, 22, Toronto, Aug & Dec 1983

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Gina20 said:
Now that we have a photo of this accused as a young man, I have questions about whether he is responsible for the murder of Margaret McWilliam, among others.


Image at 41:18 of the composite sketch of a man who could have been Margaret's killer. The man on the left above is the one in question.
Click to expand...

In the video Arntfield actually mentions the name of the suspected killer of Margaret and that he's already imprisoned for someone else's murder. Since this episode was filmed in 2015, it was three years before LE submitted the DNA found on ST and EG. In 2016 LE investigating Margaret's murder advised the public they had the DNA of Margaret's killer and that over time his DNA hasn't shown up again. Sutherland's DNA was submitted in 2018 at the same time as Christine Jessop's killer's DNA so I presume it was cross referenced to other outstanding cases which probably rules out Sutherland. Here's a short blurb from a local Toronto newspaper that condenses local news from April 2016.

bayview-news.com

Police have DNA of man who killed Margaret McWilliam

Toronto Police say they have the DNA of the killer of 21-year-old Margaret McWilliam, the young woman who was beaten and strangled in Warden Woods Park 28 years ago. She had gone for an evening jog…
bayview-news.com bayview-news.com
 
DSCrime said:
Wow this shows how remote Moosonee is. It must have made the work for investigators harder. On a crime show I watched a long time ago, cops talked about how doing surveillance in rural areas is harder than urban, b/c with wide-open spaces & small populations the suspects can spot law enforcement faster.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there wouldn't be any chance of doing surveillance work in the very close knit town of 1500 people, but then, I'm not sure that surveillance work would be needed leading to Sutherland's arrest. It sounds like the local OPP just went and picked him up.

This arrest must be a huge shock for the people of Moosonee and Fort Albany.
 
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musicaljoke said:
Yeah, there wouldn't be any chance of doing surveillance work in the very close knit town of 1500 people, but then, I'm not sure that surveillance work would be needed leading to Sutherland's arrest. It sounds like the local OPP just went and picked him up.

This arrest must be a huge shock for the people of Moosonee and Fort Albany.
Click to expand...
They may still be getting over the shock of the recent arrests of the accused killers also from Moosonee, speculation.
www.timminspress.com

Another co-accused in murder of Moosonee teen makes first court appearance

Two men and a youth facing charges of first-degree murder
www.timminspress.com www.timminspress.com
Oct 21, 2022
''Cody Linklater, 29, appeared in court from Monteith Correctional Complex by way of video.
Linklater, along with Kaden Blueboy, 21, and a 14-year-old, all from Moosonee have all been charged with first degree murder.''
 
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musicaljoke said:
Yeah, there wouldn't be any chance of doing surveillance work in the very close knit town of 1500 people, but then, I'm not sure that surveillance work would be needed leading to Sutherland's arrest. It sounds like the local OPP just went and picked him up.

This arrest must be a huge shock for the people of Moosonee and Fort Albany.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing that his LinkedIn isn't totally accurate. I wouldn't assume that he has been working full-time at Payukotayno for the past 13 years. (Payukotayno is the James and Hudson Bay Family Services agency). It's possible he's helped them out with some IT stuff from time to time and therefore describes them as his employer.

In his FB, the various questions he asks this past summer makes it sound like he isn't all that familiar with contacts in Moosonee. In one post he even says that he isn't that social and doesn't really know his neighbours. LE said in their presser that he comes from a large family unit, but based on this post It doesn't sound like he has close relatives (i.e. with a close relationship) in the immediate area. Perhaps he was estranged or semi-estranged?
 
From the TPS press conference, I was pleased to hear about the grant from the Solicitor General for investigative genetic genealogy (IGG) that has enabled Toronto Police to hire genetic genealogy staff.
The grant, which began this year, is a 3-year grant. It covers 15 Toronto cases, and 15 cases from the rest of Ontario, each year.

For context, TPS said they have >700 cold cases, of which only 43 have "known offender DNA". That grant can go a long way for those latter cases, although the IGG work would also cover more current cases of unidentified remains, sexual assaults and homicides. (Unless they have 'known offender DNA', as opposed to several different samples that could be from other unknown people, they won't submit the DNA sample to the lab.)

The Christine Jessop case and this case were the first 2 cases sent by TPS to Othram (back in 2019). It took much longer to solve this case due to endogamy and a very large family unit, among other reasons. It's easy to understand that there would be endogamy in the Northern Ontario communities.

Regarding how they got the recent DNA sample from the arrested suspect, in response to a question in the presser they said they served him with a DNA warrant. So no hanging around garbage bins or diners.
 
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Snoopster said:
From the TPS press conference, I was pleased to hear about the grant from the Solicitor General for investigative genetic genealogy (IGG) that has enabled Toronto Police to hire genetic genealogy staff.
The grant, which began this year, is a 3-year grant. It covers 15 Toronto cases, and 15 cases from the rest of Ontario, each year.

For context, TPS said they have >700 cold cases, of which only 43 have "known offender DNA". That grant can go a long way for those latter cases, although the IGG work would also cover more current cases of unidentified remains, sexual assaults and homicides. (Unless they have 'known offender DNA', as opposed to several different samples that could be from other unknown people, they won't submit the DNA sample to the lab.)

The Christine Jessop case and this case were the first 2 cases sent by TPS to Othram (back in 2019). It took much longer to solve this case due to endogamy and a very large family unit, among other reasons. It's easy to understand that there would be endogamy in the Northern Ontario communities.

Regarding how they got the recent DNA sample from the arrested suspect, in response to a question in the presser they said they served him with a DNA warrant. So no hanging around garbage bins or diners.
Click to expand...

Then he knew for a while that the arrest was coming.
 
rbbm.
www.thestar.com

Joseph George Sutherland, 60, arrested in 1983 Toronto killings of Erin Gilmour and Susan Tice

‘This is a day that I, and we, have been waiting almost an entire lifetime for,’ Sean McCowan, Gilmour’s brother said.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com
By Wendy Gillis
Jennifer Pagliaro
''A Facebook profile for a Joseph George Sutherland, with photos that show the same man pictured in a mug shot released by police, reveals a person going about a seemingly normal life in Moosonee, enjoying the outdoors and requesting recommendations for services like an electrician, while griping about everyday problems.

The page has since been inundated with commenters reacting to the news of his arrest in the high-profile murders. Meanwhile, on pages dedicated to missing and murdered loved ones, news in the murder cases was bringing hope to others that their unsolved mysteries may also find a resolution.''

''Smith said Toronto police will be contacting other services in Ontario where police believe Sutherland has resided or visited — “we’ll be going through all the cases, all the way back for 39 years.”

Retired Toronto homicide detective Mark Mendelson told the Star that investigators can also turn to classic techniques to identify any other crimes they believe Sutherland may be responsible for, including photo lineups, if previous cases had eyewitnesses, as well as fingerprint analysis now that Sutherland’s fingerprints will be in a centralized system known as AFIS.''

''Sutherland is scheduled to appear in court Dec. 9.''
 
Excellent in-depth article on the case:

‘We got him’: How a DNA investigation cracked the cold cases of two 1980s Toronto murders

"Earlier that day, Ontario Provincial Police arrested 61-year-old Joseph George Sutherland in the small northern community of Moosonee, Ont. Police served him with a DNA warrant the previous week, allowing them to collect a blood sample. He was brought back to Toronto and charged with two counts of first-degree murder. Mr. Sutherland, according to police, was living in Toronto at the time of the murders and would have been about 22 years old, the same age as Erin Gilmour. A Facebook page that appears to belong to him is filled with photos of snowy wilderness, Canada geese and selfies in hunting gear. Somehow, his name evaded police all this time. He was never a suspect, never questioned by investigators, never known."
 
Dec2 2022
Ronna Syed, Mark Kelley, Satbir Singh Aulakh · The Fifth Estate ·

''Erin Gilmour's brother told The Fifth Estate that his family knew police had narrowed the search to one family, which made the waiting process that much more difficult.

"I think it [was] just … driving us crazy. Because we … know that you've got it … down to three people," said Kaelin McCowan.

Det. Sgt. Stephen Smith from the Toronto Police Service's cold case unit declined to comment about the warrant or any other details related to the arrest.

"We're looking forward to the judicial process and being able to test the process of IGG [investigative genetic genealogy] in a Canadian courtroom," said Smith.
If the case proceeds to trial, it will be the first time a person has been tried in Canada after being arrested from genetic genealogy research.''
1670038773136.png
''Erin Gilmour, 22, was killed on Dec. 20 1983. Her mother, Anna McCowan-Johnson, died two years ago, but she is survived by her father, David Gilmour, and her two younger brothers, Kaelin McCowan and Sean McCowan. Both brothers were present at the police news conference announcing the arrest this week.

"[Det. Steve Smith] called … and I picked up the phone and he goes: 'We got him,'" said Sean McCowan. "I literally burst into tears … there was a lot of swearing and a lot of happy and a lot of tears.… It was the best phone call I've ever had in my life."
1670038851863.png
''Susan Tice's family did not attend the news conference. Tice had four children: Ben, John, Christian and Jason.
''Christian, her only daughter, was 16 at the time of her mother's death. She was away at camp in Calgary when her mother was killed in Toronto on Aug. 17, 1983.

She recalls the moment she first saw Sutherland's photo shown at the police news conference on Monday.

"The most shocking thing for me was how young he was [in 1983]," said Tice. "Of course I'm so relieved. And there's a part of me … doing a little happy dance. There's joy."
 
dotr said:
Det. Sgt. Stephen Smith from the Toronto Police Service's cold case unit declined to comment about the warrant or any other details related to the arrest.

"We're looking forward to the judicial process and being able to test the process of IGG [investigative genetic genealogy] in a Canadian courtroom," said Smith.
If the case proceeds to trial, it will be the first time a person has been tried in Canada after being arrested from genetic genealogy research.''
Click to expand...

The more I think about this case, the more I believe part of the delay in naming/arresting the suspect wasn't just b/c it was difficult to identify him (rural background, prob endogamy, etc) I think it was also b/c investigators knew that it might be the first case in Canada to be tried using genetic genealogy. They prob wanted to be extremely cautious & thorough.

How this case proceeds will set legal precedents
 
dotr said:
Dec2 2022
Ronna Syed, Mark Kelley, Satbir Singh Aulakh · The Fifth Estate ·

''Erin Gilmour's brother told The Fifth Estate that his family knew police had narrowed the search to one family, which made the waiting process that much more difficult.

"I think it [was] just … driving us crazy. Because we … know that you've got it … down to three people," said Kaelin McCowan.

Det. Sgt. Stephen Smith from the Toronto Police Service's cold case unit declined to comment about the warrant or any other details related to the arrest.

"We're looking forward to the judicial process and being able to test the process of IGG [investigative genetic genealogy] in a Canadian courtroom," said Smith.
If the case proceeds to trial, it will be the first time a person has been tried in Canada after being arrested from genetic genealogy research.''
View attachment 384622
''Erin Gilmour, 22, was killed on Dec. 20 1983. Her mother, Anna McCowan-Johnson, died two years ago, but she is survived by her father, David Gilmour, and her two younger brothers, Kaelin McCowan and Sean McCowan. Both brothers were present at the police news conference announcing the arrest this week.

"[Det. Steve Smith] called … and I picked up the phone and he goes: 'We got him,'" said Sean McCowan. "I literally burst into tears … there was a lot of swearing and a lot of happy and a lot of tears.… It was the best phone call I've ever had in my life."
View attachment 384623
''Susan Tice's family did not attend the news conference. Tice had four children: Ben, John, Christian and Jason.
''Christian, her only daughter, was 16 at the time of her mother's death. She was away at camp in Calgary when her mother was killed in Toronto on Aug. 17, 1983.

She recalls the moment she first saw Sutherland's photo shown at the police news conference on Monday.

"The most shocking thing for me was how young he was [in 1983]," said Tice. "Of course I'm so relieved. And there's a part of me … doing a little happy dance. There's joy."
Click to expand...
 
www.cp24.com

Man accused in 1983 murders of Erin Gilmour and Susan Tice makes first court appearance

The case of a man charged in the murders of two Toronto women who were found dead nearly 40 years ago will return to court next week.
www.cp24.com www.cp24.com
Dec 9 2022
1670624589748.png
The man charged in the 1983 murders of two Toronto women made his first appearance in court Friday.

Joseph George Sutherland, 61, appeared briefly in court at Old City Hall Friday virtually from the Toronto South Detention Centre.

Sutherland said he is in the process of acquiring legal aid, but his request remains pending''
''He is scheduled to re-appear on Dec. 16 with the expectation he will provide an update on his legal aid application.''
 
ici.radio-canada.ca

Meurtres non résolus depuis 40 ans : nouvelle comparution de Joseph Sutherland à Toronto

L'individu de 61 ans, qui a maintenant un avocat, devra retourner devant les tribunaux au début février.
ici.radio-canada.ca
Here is an article by Radio-Canada that was published on Monday, January 23. It is in French so I had to use an online translator, therefore some of the details posted below may not be completely accurate.
  • Joseph Sutherland appeared in court via video conference on late Monday afternoon. He looked perky, his hair and beard had grown since his first court appearance, and he was not wearing a COVID-19 mask.
  • Sutherland is now represented by defense attorney Anthony De Marco. De Marco said that he was recently appointed and he has not had time to talk to his client.
  • Justice of the Peace Jean Carter, of the Ontario Court of Justice, has given Sutherland two weeks to meet with De Marco.
  • He is scheduled to return to court via video conference on February 6 at 2 PM.
 
torontosun.com

BREAKING: Ontario man pleads guilty to 1983 Tice and Gilmour murders in Toronto

Joseph George Sutherland is destined to spend the rest of his life in prison.
torontosun.com torontosun.com
1696549996801.png
Joseph George Sutherland of Moosonee as a young man, left, and older.

Oct 05, 2023

'A charged in the grisly killings of two women in Toronto that took place nearly four decades ago pleaded guilty in court Thursday afternoon.

Joseph George Sutherland of Moosonee, Ont. was facing two counts of first-degree murder in the killings of Susan Tice and Erin Gilmour in 1983. The two women didn't know each other. '

''Sutherland's sentencing is set to take place in December.

The women's murders went unsolved until a breakthrough was announced last year. Police credited the advances in DNA technology in recent years that helped them find him.''

torontosun.com

HUNTER: Clock kept ticking to midnight for Tice-Gilmour killer

For two families, long-awaited answers finally came on Thursday afternoon in a Toronto courtroom.
torontosun.com torontosun.com
''Sitting in the largely empty University Ave. courtroom, Sutherland struck an imposing figure. At least 6-foot-4, the bespectacled IT specialist wore a snap-button bush shirt and jeans, and had his hair in a ponytail''.
He appeared stone-faced throughout the 30-minute procedure. His answers were clipped: Yes, no, that’s correct.

But questions remain about Sutherland and the intervening four decades since he killed two women out of sexual deprivation.
As he moved on with his life, did he vanquish the demons that possessed him to kill? Was he haunted by the anguished cries of his victims in the dead of night? Were warm summer afternoons obliterated by the flash of his victims’ terrified faces?
Answers to those harrowing questions remain unanswered.''
 
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Snippets,
By Kathleen Martens Oct 24, 2023
''When her smartphone’s call display showed Police-Homicide, Jackie Hookimaw Witt got scared. It was during the pandemic and she was living with a relative while locked down in Toronto.

“I thought, ‘Oh my God. Why am I getting a phone call?’ I said, ‘Is this a scam?’”

After verifying the detective’s identity, Hookimaw Witt learned Toronto Police and Ontario Provincial Police were trying to trace suspects in two historical murders who had connections to her home First Nation of Attawapiskat.''


''Hookimaw Witt said police obtained her phone number from packages that were being delivered to the house in Toronto. She said they wanted to speak to the person she was living with.''

Once she learned about the case, Hookimaw Witt wanted to use her ties in the Indigenous community to help.

“I knew George and that he lived in Toronto – and I did share that information with police,” she said. “And then we figured out the family tree, how it was related.''

''Hookimaw Witt said she first met Sutherland in Attawapiskat, 200 km north of Moosonee, in the 1980s.
“It’s a small town, you notice new people coming in,” she explained. “And I saw this young man wearing heavy working boots, [a] cap and long hair.

“And everybody, we hung out at the bowling alley – that’s the only social, recreation place on the reserve,” she added. “So that’s where my friends and I hung out, and then we noticed this young man: he was quiet, he was listening to the jukebox, and he was always playing [the song] ‘Bette Davis Eyes’.
 
torontosun.com

HUNTER: Did Joseph Sutherland keep killing after Susan Tice-Erin Gilmour murders?

Joseph George Sutherland pleaded guilty last week to two of Toronto's oldest unsolved murders.
torontosun.com torontosun.com
Oct 12, 2023 lengthy article..rbbm

''There are more than 750 unsolved homicides in Toronto dating back to the late 1950s, hundreds more gather dust in bankers’ boxes in the basements of police services around the province.''

“Joseph Sutherland is being looked at very closely for anything (murders) open by a number of homicide units,” a police source told The Toronto Sun. “But liking him for a murder and proving it are two very different things. It’s still going to be a lot of work ahead.”

Was that it? Two murders and then a return to some semblance of a normal life? A white picket fence?
Not impossible, but the very nature of the Tice-Gilmour murders would seem to indicate that the killing didn’t stop.''

''For years, Sutherland — who went into IT — traipsed across Northern Ontario, visiting various reserves and remote communities. Undetected and no one for a second suspected that the man in front of them was a violent killer.''

''The Ontario Ministry of the Solicitor General provided a grant for cops to submit 30 sets of DNA for genetic genealogy testing in 2022 and another 30 in 2023. That includes unsolved murders, sex assaults and unidentified human remains.''
''Fifteen of the sets will be from Toronto cops, the other 15 from police services around the province.''
 
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