Canadian hostage, wife & children freed from Afghanistan, Oct 2017 #1

[hollyblue]

There are actually a (small but) fair number of academics (mostly men) & workers for NGOs that go to Afghanistan. I know two male professors who have received grants to do work there, mostly with projects that will improve farming, irrigation, etc.

True, thank you. That just reminded me of the mid to late eighties. There were many opportunities..many advertisements....with fantastic pay in going to the Mideast back then. I remember it coming up for discussion with many of my friends in IT discussing the pros and cons. Training was also part of the package. Normal I guess for adventurous career minds in their mid to late twenties. LOL None decided to go however.

 

[Walker]

Being as close as he was to his ex's family and his interests I would find it hard to believe he didn't know more about the different factions and their political/religious views. I well remember this being brought into the genenal knowledge of the US in the 90's with Operation Desert Storm.

The general public is not well-informed about any of these countries, because not much is accurately reported.

The media itself is pro-war, and deliberately conflates all Mideastern, Central Asian and Islamic groups into one image: the evil "Arab" terrorist.

However, in Desert Storm, the US waged war against Iraq in response to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. This military action was not related to Afghanistan.

Agree there may well be some psychological issues with him that push him to go beyond the norm...and his access to monies to make it possible, but I believe he is intelligent and well educated. With the former taking precedence....possibly a scenario of fatal happenchance. IMO

Boyle's comments seem to reflect a tendency not to take himself or anyone else seriously. Sometimes even smart people have no critical insight & just take everything at face-value. Maybe he thought that as a Canadian he would be safe.

Here is an interesting article about an incident which recently took place in Maidan Wardak, where Boyle & Coleman may have been captured:

http://www.khaama.com/six-militants-killed-or-injured-in-maidan-wardak-province-634

[July 6, 2012]
According to local authorities in Maidan Wardak province of Afghanistan, at least 6 militants were killed or injured following military operation in this province.

Dr. Fazal Karim Muslim district chief for Syedabad quoted by a statement released by provincial governor media office said at least 3 militants were killed and 3 others were injured following an airstrike by NATO recently.

The statement further added, the militants were attacked while they were planting improvised explosive device at Salar area in Syedabad district during the night time.

 

[Walker]

Assuming that the US government accepts its own narrative about al-Quaida being responsible for the more than three thousand American civilian deaths on September 11, 2001; then our government is being disrespectful of those dead, and also disrespectful of our men and women serving in our military who have been killed and injured in Afghanistan, when it funds al-Quaida in its fight to destroy the government of Syria. Similarly, we should not be funding or supporting al-Quaida in Egypt or Libya, or under any circumstances, anywhere.

 

[nursebeeme]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/canadian-missing-in-afghanistan-had-a-terror-tie

 

[Snoopster]

Welcome to WS lokasenna and Gredge! Your insight into JB is appreciated.

From the parent's reluctance to speak out, including Cait's parent's refusal to comment in Nursebeeme's link above, you have to wonder what is really at play behind the scenes politically. As we all know, when someone is kidnapped in that arena it is usually kept out of the media to increase chances for successful negotiations toward release. Perhaps Cait's parents simply got frustrated by no sign of action and wanted more information.....or any information at all, other than what was coming out of the State department and government officials and that is why the originally went to the press with their plea for information.

 

[Snoopster]

In this blog of a cyclist traveling around the world, he mentions Josh and Caitlan. A Apparently he met them in Kyrgyzstan. Josh convince him (and a female fellow traveler) to go to Afghanistan, which they did. This blog post follows this duo's travel through northern Afghanistan. The author says that they headed to Afghanistan ahead of Josh and Caitlan, but by the time they left, their own governments were looking for them and that they were also looking for Josh and Caitlan.

This duo headed back to Kyrgyzstan before their visa expired, but Josh and Caitlan never made it back before theirs would have expired.

http://whereiscronin.blogspot.ca/2012/11/afghanistan-24th-september29th-october.html

 

[Walker]

How did they know that the judge had those documents, and where to find them? The police have not released info regarding these documents, but they would likely point to the perps' motive. The incident may not have been related to the Khadrs.

Is it possible that one of Zaynab's ex-husbands had a possessive attitude, and hated Boyle for marrying her? In Afghani culture, they might see the situation as family vs. family. That would not be consistent with taking documents, though.


http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/612296--a-break-in-slaying-and-khadr-marriage-mystery

A break-in, slaying and Khadr marriage mystery
The home belonged to Patrick J. Boyle, a well-known and connected judge of Canada's tax court. Police reportedly found the front door smashed, the house ransacked and what appeared to be holes from .22-calibre bullets in the windows.
The incident, combined with Boyle's position, raised alarms since the police force was already investigating the murder of his colleague, former Tax Court Chief Justice Alban Garon, who was killed alongside his wife and a neighbour in 2007.
But then another connection came to light. Boyle had recently become the father-in-law of Zaynab Khadr, the outspoken sister of Guantanamo Bay detainee Omar Khadr.

Although Ottawa police and the RCMP would not comment on the details of the case, the Star has learned that documents were reportedly taken from Boyle's home and that the three bullet holes indicated the shots were fired from close range. No one was home at the time of the break-in, which was discovered by Boyle's teenaged daughter that Friday afternoon.

 

[Walker]

I am interested to know about Josh Coleman's education. Did he attend college or grad school and if so, where and what did he study?

Yes, I agree. Seems strange that we can't find a word about what college or university he attended.

Did he work for (or volunteer with) any NGOs involved in rebuilding Afghanistan

Or just those bent on destabilizing any struggling nation they think just might get up off of its knees, like the Ford Foundation and the Soros fronts?

or committed to freeing people who have been imprisoned during the War on Terror who some feel may have been arrested without good reason or who have been arrested yet not given due process under the law (ie: ending up in Gitmo, being questioned with "enhanced interrogation techniques," being questioned by LE as a minor without proper accommodations, etc)?

If Boyle advocated the position that the al-Quaida & Taliban union in Afghanistan had been falsely charged of complicity in the September 11, 2001 attacks on NYC & DC, then he may deserve our sympathy; otherwise, he is traitor, and a fool for trusting those organizations.

And, if Boyle did reject the mainstream media narrative about 19 Arabs with box-cutters, he is certainly not alone; however, who then did he consider responsible? Al-Neo-Con-dia? And, who is nominally in charge of Afghanistan right now? Seems to me that to be logically consistent, he should not have trusted either side.

I just don't buy that he has no "career."

Not sure about a career, but Boyle surely had some purpose for going to Afghanistan.

 

[Walker]

Essentially, this Guardian article criticizes the mainstream media (MSM) for not examining the true situation in Syria carefully. MSM does not seek the opinions of ordinary Syrian citizens, but settles for statements of people who abandoned Syria to advance their ($$$) careers by taking advantage of liberal immigration policies, and who then have accepted large sums of money from the pro-war Council on Foreign Relations, George Soros, the Ford Foundation, various neo-conservative think-tanks and the US State Department. Though they fancy themselves as glamorous international celebrities, these so-called Syrian democracy activists are nothing but traitors to their own blood.

Also, the Syrian "pro-democracy" movement is mainly comprised of al-Quaida. Our State Dept. is funding al-Quaida. What is to stop al-Quaida from using the same guns and money to kill Americans in Afghanistan? Or again in NYC? Or anywhere?

[On Al-Quaida in Syria:
http://www.euronews.com/2012/12/19/al-qaeda-s-rise-in-syria/ ]


Guardian link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/12/syrian-opposition-doing-the-talking

The Syrian opposition: who's doing the talking?The media have been too passive when it comes to Syrian opposition sources, without scrutinising their backgrounds and their political connections. Time for a closer look …

They're selling the idea of military intervention and regime change, and the mainstream news is hungry to buy. Many of the "activists" and spokespeople representing the Syrian opposition are closely (and in many cases financially) interlinked with the US and London – the very people who would be doing the intervening. Which means information and statistics from these sources isn't necessarily pure news – it's a sales pitch, a PR campaign.

Al-Quaida, if nothing else, is a serious military organization. Seeing the money come flowing in from the very same "super-power" which accused them of perpetrating 9-11 must make them laugh. Feeling themselves in the position of power, al-Quaida has no motive to discuss the possible arrest of Boyle & Coleman, but possibly may release Coleman eventually on humanitarian grounds.

 

[Walker]

On weasel wording, from Guardian link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/12/syrian-opposition-doing-the-talking

A state department spokesman responded to this story by saying: "Trying to promote a transformation to a more democratic process in this society is not undermining necessarily the existing government." And they're right, it's not "necessarily" that.

When asked about the state department money, Monajed himself said that he "could not confirm" US state department funding for Barada TV, but said: "I didn't receive a penny myself." Malik al -Abdeh, until very recently Barada TV's editor-in-chief insisted: "we have had no direct dealings with the US state department". The meaning of the sentence turns on that word "direct". It is worth noting that Malik al Abdeh also happens to be one of the founders of the Movement for Justice and Development (the recipient of the state department $6m, according to the leaked cable). And he's the brother of the chairman, Anas Al-Abdah. He's also the co-holder of the MJD trademark: What Malik al Abdeh does admit is that Barada TV gets a large chunk of its funding from an American non-profit organisation: the Democracy Council. One of the co-sponsors (with the MJD) of Syria In-Transition mini-conference. So what we see, in 2008, at the same meeting, are the leaders of precisely those organisations identified in the Wiki:eaks cables as the conduit (the Democracy Council) and recipient (the MJD) of large amounts of state department money.

The State Department rarely offers assistance when Americans go missing in countries like Nepal; never mind that State plays a big role in pushing them to go over there as "volunteers."

Yet today we have the interesting news that the Hillary! herself is acknowledging an activist gone missing in Laos.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130116/DA3RICFO0.html

Clinton calls on Laos to find missing activist

Jan 16, 5:14 PM (ET)

By MATTHEW PENNINGTON and GRANT PECK



WASHINGTON (AP) - Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton on Wednesday added to international pressure on the authoritarian government in Laos to investigate the disappearance a month ago of a prominent social activist and reunite him with his family.

Take note of weasel word:

Laos is a one-party state and the government is intolerant of dissent, but associates say Sombath's work was neither directly political nor confrontational. Educated in the U.S., he won one of Asia's top civil awards in 2005 for his work reducing poverty and promoting education at a training center he founded.

 

[Walker]

Why can't we just arrest Soros and others on treason, and use their money to shore up our Social Security system?

 

[hollyblue]

The general public is not well-informed about any of these countries, because not much is accurately reported.

The media itself is pro-war, and deliberately conflates all Mideastern, Central Asian and Islamic groups into one image: the evil "Arab" terrorist.

However, in Desert Storm, the US waged war against Iraq in response to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. This military action was not related to Afghanistan.

RSBM

We are based in the talk of Afghanistan here, but I was mentioning the factions because of what part they play in the political scene in the Mideast. I myself had no clue about Sunnis, Shiites, and then add in the Kurds, but they were brought to the forefront when Desert Storm took place. . How can you conquer when it's already divided?

As far as the military action in Iraq not related to Afghanistan, that's debatable from many political view points...globally. When 911 took place, few people had any real knowledge of Bin Laden, and thought Saddam was behind it. They are still debating the connection between the two...and what intelligence had and did not have at the time; more specifically after the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

While some Americans view the Mid East as "all bad Arabs" in their lack of knowledge of the region, there is no doubt a huge political agenda taking place for power and change to manifest some 20-30 years from now. JMO, IMO, etc.

 

[Walker]

RSBM

We are based in the talk of Afghanistan here, but I was mentioning the factions because of what part they play in the political scene in the Mideast. I myself had no clue about Sunnis, Shiites, and then add in the Kurds, but they were brought to the forefront when Desert Storm took place. . How can you conquer when it's already divided?

Almost all nations have some degree of diversity whether ethnic or religious. Iraq, though it had Shia in the south, and Kurdistani in the north, was a united nation under the Baathist party of Saddam Hussein.

Diversity should not be used as an excuse for killing huge numbers of innocent civilians.

We conquered Iraq by bombing it relentlessly, and not caring about the price to the American middle-class taxpayer.
Nor does the US State Dept care much about long-term American interests.

As far as the military action in Iraq not related to Afghanistan, that's debatable from many political view points...globally.

Both military interventions were unnecessary, money-wasting campaigns.

When 911 took place, few people had any real knowledge of Bin Laden, and thought Saddam was behind it.

No evidence has ever suggested that Saddam Hussein was behind 9-11. He hated al-Quaida. His Baathist party was modern & progressive; whereas al-Quaida is socially conservative and Islamist.

They are still debating the connection between the two...

Who is debating a connection? Do you mean that you think there was cooperation between al-Quaida and Saddam Hussein? Can you link any sources that would suggest any connection?

what intelligence had and did not have at the time; more specifically after the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Or are they making excuses? As in "ooops, we honestly have no idea that the anti-Assad faction in Syria is al-Quaida ..." They are taking advantage of the fact that most middle-class Americans do not follow what goes on there, because we have no interests there.

While some Americans view the Mid East as "all bad Arabs" in their lack of knowledge of the region, there is no doubt a huge political agenda taking place for power and change to manifest some 20-30 years from now. JMO, IMO, etc.

Americans need to focus on America. Times are really hard right now. People are suffering mid-life job terminations and home foreclosures. Maybe we can just take care of ourselves, just a little bit, for a change.

 

[hollyblue]

Who is debating a connection? Do you mean that you think there was cooperation between al-Quaida and Saddam Hussein? Can you link any sources that would suggest any connection?
.

I don't want this thread to become a political debate taking away the discussion of the missing couple, but if you just google "connection, Bin Laden, Saddam" there are many links on the subject.

When we went into Afghanistan.. and a few years later back into Iraq, I predicted a 20 yr war in the Mid East. It's going on 12 and we now hear more and more about the escalations in Syria. Iran is still somewhat in the news, but who's really paying attention to that matter now? Egypt is having troubles as well as Pakistan. I don't follow the mainstream and it's daily givings...it just fodder. The big picture, imo, is the whole region. Chess is being played in the desert sands. So what's going on in China, Russia and S America? Anything we should be paying attention to?

I'm sorta like Buffet regarding the economy. When things are good.... be thrifty, when things are bad...buy. I don't pay so much attention to the biggest headlines.... there may be something else going on that you miss on that second or back page. What was the largest focus of the American people for the presidential election? Economy. How many people knew or cared what was really going on in the Mid East when the economy started to fall in '09....not that many.... they were waiting for the next Dow report. JMO

 

[Walker]

I don't want this thread to become a political debate taking away the discussion of the missing couple, but if you just google "connection, Bin Laden, Saddam" there are many links on the subject.

The missing couple may have been arrested by al-Quaida; that's why the thread is discussing al-Quaida. Boyle also had possible links to al-Quaida through his wife. In this particular case, politics plays an important role.

And, as far as Bin Laden & Saddam Hussein working together, that's extremely unlikely and not supported by anyone who writes seriously on the subject. Many people credit Hussein with keeping al-Quaida out of Iraq.

When you do the google search, the links that it pulls up include pro-war propaganda like the neo-con Weekly Standard.

In any case, here is a related link:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/13/alqaeda.saddam/

Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda not linked, Pentagon says

From Mike Mount
CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. military's first and only study looking into ties between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda showed no connection between the two, according to a military report released by the Pentagon.

When we went into Afghanistan.. and a few years later back into Iraq, I predicted a 20 yr war in the Mid East. It's going on 12 and we now hear more and more about the escalations in Syria. Iran is still somewhat in the news, but who's really paying attention to that matter now? Egypt is having troubles as well as Pakistan. I don't follow the mainstream and it's daily givings...it just fodder. The big picture, imo, is the whole region. Chess is being played in the desert sands. So what's going on in China, Russia and S America? Anything we should be paying attention to?

I'm sorta like Buffet regarding the economy. When things are good.... be thrifty, when things are bad...buy. I don't pay so much attention to the biggest headlines.... there may be something else going on that you miss on that second or back page. What was the largest focus of the American people for the presidential election? Economy. How many people knew or cared what was really going on in the Mid East when the economy started to fall in '09....not that many.... they were waiting for the next Dow report. JMO

I think we agree that most Americans just don’t find the Mideast all that interesting. Plus, people seem to blame themselves when they don’t understand our foreign policy; but in fact, our foreign policy is incoherent and senseless.

Say, for example, your best friend tells you that she is worried that her husband's job will be terminated. You know for a fact that the statement is true, or you could verify it, or ask other people their opinion, and then come to your own conclusions about how best to handle the situation. Problems in our own backyard, we can handle.

But when the government wastes trillions starting up these unnecessary wars, and telling us that in Syria, al-Quaida is our friend, because they hate Assad. If we topple Assad, Israel will be happy, (until al-Quaida completely takes over, and unites with al-Quaida in Egypt, and Libya (and Mali) and decides to destroy Israel).

Or how about the claim that in Saudi Arabia, the Sunni are our old and trusted friends, and friends of Israel, too; but in Iraq, they were all just terrorists who had to be thrown from power. We put the Shia in charge. According to the government, the Shia are much better leaders, except for the Shia in Iran, who are all terrorists.

Our government doesn’t seem to understand the Shia of Iran have deep ties with their Shia brethren in neighboring Iraq. Nor has it considered that the al-Quaida organization in Syria also has strong ties to al-Quaida in Afghanistan.

This whole topic may make people feel uncomfortable, because the majority of people reject the conspiracy theories about Sept 11, 2001. The thought that the government would lie to us provokes anxiety to say the least. People naturally want to trust our leaders.

However, with Hillary giving money to al-Quaida in Syria, she is contradicting the government narrative that al-Quaida was definitely responsible for 9-11. Also, her unnecessary move into Libya allowed al-Quaida to gain power there as well.

With the government essentially contradicting itself, the conspiracy theory looks more credible.

 

[Walker]

( 1.) The faction trying to take down the Syrian government is comprised of neo-con proteges, as mentioned above, and described in this link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/12/syrian-opposition-doing-the-talking

However, these opposition fighters are also heavily al-Quaida.

The neo-cons blamed al-Quaida for the attacks on September 11, 2001 almost immediately.

How is it that these two groups, the neo-cons & al-Quaida, are able to work together in attacking the Assad government?

( 2.) If we went to war against Afghanistan because the Taliban who were in charge of the government supported al-Quaida, why is it that we are now supporting al-Quaida, but still opposing the Taliban?

Could Boyle's purpose in Afghanistan have been to answer this question?

( 3.) Another question is that Hillary Clinton always presented herself as a leftist. Why then as Secretary of State did she become pro-war?

(4.) Is Israel controlling our foreign policy? Wouldn't Israel fear al-Quaida more than stable well-established governments who have cooperated with US and Western powers in the past?

( 5.) Are the wars just random money-generators for these big international military contractors, like Halliburton, General Electric and large oil interests?

Possibly the neo-cons are a front for Israel, and al-Quaida fronts the Saudis, and both are working together basically to drain all US & European wealth.

 

[bessie]

:seeya: A discussion of politics as it pertains to this case is fine. Let's keep it relevant, though, and be careful not to go too far afield from the immediate topic, the two missing individuals.

:tyou:

 

[Mouse]

Has anyone heard any kind of update, at all?

 

[mikkismom]

Desperate family release videos of American mother and husband held with their baby by the Taliban since 2012 as they blast government for rescuing Bowe Bergdahl first

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...vernment-rescuing-Bowe-Bergdahl-not-them.html

 

[ktgirl]

Good story about Caitlin (and her Canadian husband) and other Americans still being held captive by the Taliban:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/05/world/asia/other-detained-americans/

With the exception of Josh, all of the people currently being held by the Taliban are elderly or female (Caitlin being the one female and she was pregnant at the time she was kidnapped). If Caitlin's child is alive, that means of the 5 people held by the Taliban, only one (Josh) is NOT a child, woman, or elderly person. It's disgusting anyone is being held captive, but really....the elderly and women & children? But I guess what does one expect from the Taliban.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rachel Maddow did a piece on Caitlin & Josh tonight on her show. Apparently Caitlin references her child in the videos their families received, but the child does not appear in any videos and the baby's sex and gender are not given. The grandparents do not know for sure if the child is alive, what he/she has been named, or what the baby's sex is.

Afghanistan has one of the highest maternal death rates in the world. One in eleven Afghan women die in childbirth or because of pregnancy complications. (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/12/us-afghanistan-maternity-fb-idUSTRE7BB0FJ20111212) Caitlin is SO very lucky she did not die or have any complications in childbirth that could have been easily treated in the US but would cause maternal death in Afghanistan. I only hope her child was as lucky and that the child is being as well-cared for (as possible) and is with his/her parents or at least his/her mother.

I am 15 weeks pregnant and was on the verge of sobbing tears when I saw the segment on The Rachel Maddow show featuring Caitlin & Josh's parents. I can't even imagine how terrified Caitlin had to be while in captivity pregnant, giving birth with essentially no modern medical care, and now (hopefully) raising a small child as captives. The video shows that both Caitlin and Josh have lost a TON of weight while in captivity. I really worry for their health, especially Caitlin's. I am really worried that we haven't seen Caitlin & Josh's child in the videos. It gives me a sick feeling in my stomach. :tantrum: lease: