Casey Anthony's 'failure to protect' caused Caylee's death, DCF said

[Sustained]

There were notations next to the calls.

ETA: here ya go MissJames...

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Previous 911 Calls

So all of these calls to the police and FCA/GA couldn't pick up the phone to call 911 for the supposed "drowning" ...

 

[LambChop]

This is just a guess but maybe DCF was awaiting the outcome of the trial to see what the testimonies would be. They were unable to speak with GA or CA after August of 2008 so they may have hoped to have gotten more information at the trial. The comments in the recommendations section about interviewing GA and LA are interesting and probably would not have been there had they not waiting for the trial. jmo

 

[JDzWife]

This case has been a screw up since day one. I can't help but think every little thing that comes out Anthony-related does nothing but provoke the public even more. What good is this report NOW?? WHY wasn't it completed and used during her trial? They had THREE YEARS!! Nothing makes sense. Makes me sick all over again. Caylee never had justice. Everything and everyone failed Caylee.

 

[LambChop]

This case has been a screw up since day one. I can't help but think every little thing that comes out Anthony-related does nothing but provoke the public even more. What good is this report NOW?? WHY wasn't it completed and used during her trial? They had THREE YEARS!! Nothing makes sense. Makes me sick all over again. Caylee never had justice. Everything and everyone failed Caylee.

The judge would probably not allow DCF to testify during court because KC had an attorney at the time. It certainly would have been a good cause for appeal I would think. jmo

 

[Leah0107]

I am not as clear and cemented as some of you on GA/CA's complicity/responsibility in Caylees death, disappearance/neglect. I can believe that they were fooled by her, bought into her lies even during the 31 days when FCA said she had Caylee in Tampa and Jax and all the embellishing lies that surrounded that time. I think if my daughter was feeding me that line of crap with all the 'detail' that FCA did, maybe I'd question the fact that I hadn't spoken to my grand daughter to some extent, but would never in my wildest imagination believe that she was missing or worse, dead. I do believe that things were beginning to come to a head in that house which may have been one of the contributing factors to FCA's actions.

With that said, one thing for sure is that WITH RIGHTS COMES ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY. And if GA/CA or anyone else pushes through for grand parent rights, which considering some of the horror stories I have heard about, is a good cause. But with those rights will come an accountability and responsibility that wasn't in place before. NOT saying this is a bad thing at all, just something to think about because had grand parent rights and laws been in place during this fiasco, would have been/be different today? What is/will be the weight and balance of grandparent's responsibility? How much will it (legally) release parental responsibility? As it stands during the trial, the juror's supposedly didn't know whose care Caylee was under at the time of her death so they allowed that weight to be taken off of FCA and that is inconceivable to me. So I don't know. The more I write the more questions I have.

MOO

 

[Fluffy Puppy]

Grandparents have no rights and will never get any rights as far as their grandchildren are concerned unless the court finds that their particular case warrants them getting custody of their grandchildren. Each case is different. No one has the right to try and take children away from their parents unless there is neglect and that is up to the courts to decide on an individual basis. GA and CA had no right to take Caylee away from KC, BUT, in fact, they could have very likely gotten custody, even if it were temporary, by reporting KC to LE for the thiefs of money and misuse of CA's credit card. They could have gone to DCF and showed KC had no job and they were indeed supporting Caylee.

(snipped for space)

...

Thanks for the reply, it is a quandry for grandparents in general, and you make the case well.

But in this conversation, we are coming from different places: I don't really think that the lack of law was preventing Cindy and George from action. They have such respect for the law and legal process, after all .

Here is what you do: go get the child and tell the mother she is done raising her. Period. Let Casey call the police. Deal with the problem.

They didn't. They didn't think it was that bad: not THEIR daughter.

But now they want legal rights -- no wait.... they want DONATIONS for their legal rights -- spare me -- like that would have saved Caylee. Just another excuse for Cindy, if you ask me.

I think all three of them had responsibility to that child, and they all failed.

The end, lol. Thanks for listening.

 

[Fluffy Puppy]

I am not as clear and cemented as some of you on GA/CA's complicity/responsibility in Caylees death, disappearance/neglect. I can believe that they were fooled by her, bought into her lies even during the 31 days when FCA said she had Caylee in Tampa and Jax and all the embellishing lies that surrounded that time. I think if my daughter was feeding me that line of crap with all the 'detail' that FCA did, maybe I'd question the fact that I hadn't spoken to my grand daughter to some extent, but would never in my wildest imagination believe that she was missing or worse, dead. I do believe that things were beginning to come to a head in that house which may have been one of the contributing factors to FCA's actions.

With that said, one thing for sure is that WITH RIGHTS COMES ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY. And if GA/CA or anyone else pushes through for grand parent rights, which considering some of the horror stories I have heard about, is a good cause. But with those rights will come an accountability and responsibility that wasn't in place before. NOT saying this is a bad thing at all, just something to think about because had grand parent rights and laws been in place during this fiasco, would have been/be different today? What is/will be the weight and balance of grandparent's responsibility? How much will it (legally) release parental responsibility? As it stands during the trial, the juror's supposedly didn't know whose care Caylee was under at the time of her death so they allowed that weight to be taken off of FCA and that is inconceivable to me. So I don't know. The more I write the more questions I have.

MOO

Isn't THAT the truth. Me, too. It was her daughter, her responsibility, how they let that go is impossible to comprehend.

Legally, that is hard to argue, although this jury certainly found a way. I think that in this thread, there is a lot of crossover between being legally responsible and who should have/should have helped Caylee Marie.

 

[krkrjx]

I never felt GA and/or CA were responsible for Caylee's death. I have always felt that they were responsible for most of the media attention the crime received, and that media attention was significant to the trial outcome. Not the sole reason for how it all turned out, but a significant one.

CA/GA should have acted sooner when Caylee was missing from the home that she had lived in since birth, especially given their comments on how there had never been another time when they had not seen Caylee for days. It seems clear from the family dynamics that time and time again where there were battles between KC and her parents, yet I have never seen anything said about KC taking Caylee with her in the past and being gone for an extended period of time and then returning with the child. So, it's not like GA and/or CA could look at a past experience and assume that this was just another situation where both KC and Caylee would be coming home as soon as KC cooled off.

CA was clearly distraught at the time she wrote about Caylee on her MySpace page. She certainly should have done something by that point, IMO. True, the laws were not going to help her as laws protect the parent's rights above everyone else's, inclucing the minor child. But there's no law against trying!

THe DCF report indicates KC is responsible for Caylee's death through neglect and states the neglect was due to KC's own actions or failure to act. This could cover a number of scenarios, including accident. Accidents happen, but a normal response is for a parent or anyone else present is to TRY to assist the child, perhaps attempt CPR but at the very least call 911. One certainly does not bag up the victim and toss them away after failing to call for help in any kind of accident. KC didn't call for help, and if anyone else was present (which I doubt) they didn't call for help either. But ultimately, safety of the child was KC's responsibility just as much as custody of the child and taking her out of the home was her right.

Had the grandparents acted immediately, they could not have saved Caylee's life. I believe Caylee was gone long before anyone even entertained the thought that there was a problem. However, GA and/or CA should have acted anyway, IMO. Since KC had no money, didn't they even wonder how Caylee was being fed?

Because Caylee's grandparents didn't act, weeks passed before LE became involved. These stellar grandparents who people cry for and feel sorry for because "they have been through so much..." not only did not insist that KC produce their granddaughter, once they did have KC cornered they went on to destroy evidence even before LE arrived and then continued to hinder the investigation at every turn. The main reason there was so much publicity in this case was the 31 days and the behaviors of the grandparents, IMO.

Covering up a crime and destroying evidence is a criminal offense in many states--why isn't it a crime in Florida? Or if it is, why is it not prosecuted? While the grandparents in this case had no legal means for forcing KC to bring Caylee home, no law prohibited them from raising a huge fuss early on. They should have been on LE and DCF daily, even if it every attempt was futile. Had they done this, and had they not destroyed evidence and then lied in court to protect KC, the whole world would be in their corner now because it would have shown they cared about Caylee. Plus, it would have put Caylee's killer behind bars for a very long time.

GA and CA deserve no respect at all. Respect has to be earned. They are not afraid to open their mouths--we all know that--so what would have stopped them from shouting loud and clear that their granddaughter was missing and they wanted to find her?? I am not buying that they did nothing because they had no legal rights to the baby, because no law can prevent a person from acting with moral responsibility.

These grandparents should be charged now with obstruction of justice, destroying evidence of a crime, and perjury even if there is no law that can hold them responsible for neglect.

 

[Just K]

I never felt GA and/or CA were responsible for Caylee's death. I have always felt that they were responsible for most of the media attention the crime received, and that media attention was significant to the trial outcome. Not the sole reason for how it all turned out, but a significant one.

CA/GA should have acted sooner when Caylee was missing from the home that she had lived in since birth, especially given their comments on how there had never been another time when they had not seen Caylee for days. It seems clear from the family dynamics that time and time again where there were battles between KC and her parents, yet I have never seen anything said about KC taking Caylee with her in the past and being gone for an extended period of time and then returning with the child. So, it's not like GA and/or CA could look at a past experience and assume that this was just another situation where both KC and Caylee would be coming home as soon as KC cooled off.

CA was clearly distraught at the time she wrote about Caylee on her MySpace page. She certainly should have done something by that point, IMO. True, the laws were not going to help her as laws protect the parent's rights above everyone else's, inclucing the minor child. But there's no law against trying!

THe DCF report indicates KC is responsible for Caylee's death through neglect and states the neglect was due to KC's own actions or failure to act. This could cover a number of scenarios, including accident. Accidents happen, but a normal response is for a parent or anyone else present is to TRY to assist the child, perhaps attempt CPR but at the very least call 911. One certainly does not bag up the victim and toss them away after failing to call for help in any kind of accident. KC didn't call for help, and if anyone else was present (which I doubt) they didn't call for help either. But ultimately, safety of the child was KC's responsibility just as much as custody of the child and taking her out of the home was her right.

Had the grandparents acted immediately, they could not have saved Caylee's life. I believe Caylee was gone long before anyone even entertained the thought that there was a problem. However, GA and/or CA should have acted anyway, IMO. Since KC had no money, didn't they even wonder how Caylee was being fed?

Because Caylee's grandparents didn't act, weeks passed before LE became involved. These stellar grandparents who people cry for and feel sorry for because "they have been through so much..." not only did not insist that KC produce their granddaughter, once they did have KC cornered they went on to destroy evidence even before LE arrived and then continued to hinder the investigation at every turn. The main reason there was so much publicity in this case was the 31 days and the behaviors of the grandparents, IMO.

Covering up a crime and destroying evidence is a criminal offense in many states--why isn't it a crime in Florida? Or if it is, why is it not prosecuted? While the grandparents in this case had no legal means for forcing KC to bring Caylee home, no law prohibited them from raising a huge fuss early on. They should have been on LE and DCF daily, even if it every attempt was futile. Had they done this, and had they not destroyed evidence and then lied in court to protect KC, the whole world would be in their corner now because it would have shown they cared about Caylee. Plus, it would have put Caylee's killer behind bars for a very long time.

GA and CA deserve no respect at all. Respect has to be earned. They are not afraid to open their mouths--we all know that--so what would have stopped them from shouting loud and clear that their granddaughter was missing and they wanted to find her?? I am not buying that they did nothing because they had no legal rights to the baby, because no law can prevent a person from acting with moral responsibility.

These grandparents should be charged now with obstruction of justice, destroying evidence of a crime, and perjury even if there is no law that can hold them responsible for neglect.

In agreement with you on everything but one aspect of the last line.

The grandparents would have lied, did lie, as to why they cleaned out the car, ignored the obvious source of the smell of the car, washed/cleaned items inside the car and from the inside the trunk. They claimed it was what anyone would do if their car came back smelling of garbage. I'm sure SA considered charging them yet decided it was a waste of money & time.

 

[Aedrys]

Isn't THAT the truth. Me, too. It was her daughter, her responsibility, how they let that go is impossible to comprehend.

Legally, that is hard to argue, although this jury certainly found a way. I think that in this thread, there is a lot of crossover between being legally responsible and who should have/should have helped Caylee Marie.

I agree. I get tired of the "legally, she wasn't their kid" flag being waved. I don't know about anyone else, but if I know bad situation is going on, I don't look the other way and not do a darn thing because I have no legal rights. It's called morals and ethics, and the A's don't have any, period. Cindy knew full well she had an irresponsible, thieving and partying daughter living in her household and chose to ignore it for her fantasy of what she wanted Casey to be. And she held George's spine, so he became a wimp dad that never did anything because his wife told him not to. He knew what Casey was too, but never did anything about it. Poor Caylee paid for it with her life.

Casey was content with her mom covering for her. She was never really going to move out of that house. She was just going to keep lying, stealing, and partying as much as she wanted to, and if her parents continued to get in her way, she'd make them pay for it with their lives. I have no doubt of that. She was telling Amy she was getting the house, and it was just going to be the two of them. How the heck would that work with the A's still being alive? The A's don't know how lucky they are to still be alive at this point.

Bottom line, no, they didn't kill Caylee. But they had a moral and ethical obligation to give a damn about her welfare when she was out of their sight with Casey, who they knew was an unfit mother. I have no doubt they knew, but looked the other way and pretended to the outside world that their house was perfect. To me, that is morally and ethically WRONG.

 

[Intermezzo]

So all of these calls to the police and FCA/GA couldn't pick up the phone to call 911 for the supposed "drowning" ...

so true...no 911 call and it seems no first aid or resuscitation was attempted for this alleged "drowning"
iirc...one of those August calls calls was made by Casey to 911, a group of protesters were outside the A home and a confrontation with G&C erupted.

 

[coco puff]

So all of these calls to the police and FCA/GA couldn't pick up the phone to call 911 for the supposed "drowning" ...

I hear ya. He reported his gas cans stolen (knowing full well who did it) without worry of a big huge family secret getting out. The more I think about it the more ridiculously foolish JB looks for presenting such a stupid scenario. I have not talked to one person (not talking head or someone on-line that is using me as a lab rat) who thinks that she is not guilty. NOT ONE!

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Don't know if this has been said yet, but to me, some of DCF's conclusions are wrong. They're basing "failure to protect" and "threatened harm" on accepting at face value Casey's claim Caylee was missing and with ZFG for 31 days before being reported. Caylee was never missing. They are correct she's responsible for her death. But it's because Casey killed her.

 

[LambChop]

Thanks for the reply, it is a quandry for grandparents in general, and you make the case well.

But in this conversation, we are coming from different places: I don't really think that the lack of law was preventing Cindy and George from action. They have such respect for the law and legal process, after all .

Here is what you do: go get the child and tell the mother she is done raising her. Period. Let Casey call the police. Deal with the problem.

They didn't. They didn't think it was that bad: not THEIR daughter.

But now they want legal rights -- no wait.... they want DONATIONS for their legal rights -- spare me -- like that would have saved Caylee. Just another excuse for Cindy, if you ask me.

I think all three of them had responsibility to that child, and they all failed.

The end, lol. Thanks for listening.

That's right. The problem with this family is that not one of them wants to take responsibility for anything. In a "backwards" sort of way the A's are blaming the legal system for not being able to get custody of Caylee and her eventual death by promoting a "grandparent's rights" law. They never tried to save Caylee, talked about it, threatened KC about it but never did anything just like the hundreds of checks KC wrote and the credit card bills she rang up without permission. There were never any checks and balances with this family just whatever flies, let's do it.

They have not changed one bit. The death of Caylee has not changed the A's, if anything they are worse than before. They now expect the public to support them because of who they are. Only a human behavioral psychologist would be able to figure these people out because they just are not normal as we would think normal people should act.

Grandparents are no different than any other person who is aware there is abuse, they need to report it and hope for the best. It is all a person can do. But you are right about taking charge and tell the son/daughter either straighten yourself out or the child stays with us. jmo

 

[martea]

Thanks for the reply, it is a quandry for grandparents in general, and you make the case well.

But in this conversation, we are coming from different places: I don't really think that the lack of law was preventing Cindy and George from action. They have such respect for the law and legal process, after all .

Here is what you do: go get the child and tell the mother she is done raising her. Period. Let Casey call the police. Deal with the problem.

They didn't. They didn't think it was that bad: not THEIR daughter.

But now they want legal rights -- no wait.... they want DONATIONS for their legal rights -- spare me -- like that would have saved Caylee. Just another excuse for Cindy, if you ask me.

I think all three of them had responsibility to that child, and they all failed.

The end, lol. Thanks for listening.

IMO, of course.............they KNEW how messed up Casey is. Most responsible parents would not have allowed Casey to be in charge of a goldfish, let alone a child. They also took 80% of the money donated for themselves, and all they did was buy tee shirts with the other 20%, as far as I could tell. Arghhhh!

 

[Baznme]

That's right. The problem with this family is that not one of them wants to take responsibility for anything. In a "backwards" sort of way the A's are blaming the legal system for not being able to get custody of Caylee and her eventual death by promoting a "grandparent's rights" law. They never tried to save Caylee, talked about it, threatened KC about it but never did anything just like the hundreds of checks KC wrote and the credit card bills she rang up without permission. There were never any checks and balances with this family just whatever flies, let's do it.

They have not changed one bit. The death of Caylee has not changed the A's, if anything they are worse than before. They now expect the public to support them because of who they are. Only a human behavioral psychologist would be able to figure these people out because they just are not normal as we would think normal people should act.

Grandparents are no different than any other person who is aware there is abuse, they need to report it and hope for the best. It is all a person can do. But you are right about taking charge and tell the son/daughter either straighten yourself out or the child stays with us. jmo

Interestingly enough, Lambchop.........I believe that's precisely what happened here. Once the major argument was launched that evening of 6/15/08, that IMO is what was put before KC. She was told either straighten up (after being found out that she stole money from her grandfather's acc't) or Caylee stays with us. I think Cindy was ready to do what she had to do and thus KC telling Amy that she had to find a place to stay. So, she decided to show her mother she, (Cindy) wasn't taking Caylee and she (Casey) was leaving anyway. Up until a few years ago, grandparents had very limited rights in Florida but with so many grandchildren now being raised by grandparents even without the courts, seems things are better but still not yet ideal. If this is what the A's are trying to change, I support it. It's been a long time coming but, to assume that they weren't seriously considering taking control of that situation as of 6/15/08 I believe may be in error. Unfortunately, if it was what they were going to do, legally, it was too little, too late.

 

[logicalgirl]

Interestingly enough, Lambchop.........I believe that's precisely what happened here. Once the major argument was launched that evening of 6/15/08, that IMO is what was put before KC. She was told either straighten up (after being found out that she stole money from her grandfather's acc't) or Caylee stays with us. I think Cindy was ready to do what she had to do and thus KC telling Amy that she had to find a place to stay. So, she decided to show her mother she, (Cindy) wasn't taking Caylee and she (Casey) was leaving anyway. Up until a few years ago, grandparents had very limited rights in Florida but with so many grandchildren now being raised by grandparents even without the courts, seems things are better but still not yet ideal. If this is what the A's are trying to change, I support it. It's been a long time coming but, to assume that they weren't seriously considering taking control of that situation as of 6/15/08 I believe may be in error. Unfortunately, if it was what they were going to do, legally, it was too little, too late.

I've never been fully clear on whether or not CA or GA thought Caylee was "missing" or simply being kept away from them by a spiteful daughter. CA may have been saying in her Myspace post - My Caylee is missing (from my life)....I'm talking about the first 31 days of course.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

CA found out much earlier before 6/15 that Casey stole from her parents. CA's mother says she confronted Casey in the spring about it.

Seeing her parents could have rekindled CA's anger about it though. A fight can begin by any comment, as we all must know.

 

[lauriej]

...markL on "dr.drew".

Anthony failed to protect Caylee [CNN 8-12-2011]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOJ40sfw3_E"]Report - Anthony failed to protect Caylee [CNN 8-12-2011] - YouTube[/ame]

..lippman says that his clients haven't seen the DCF report yet ( just heard about it through the media like we all did)-----so his same old same old----can't comment. ( however, cindy and george's relationship is 'stronger than ever'..)

..markEiglarsh-----

"why now??? why now???? release this DCF report?????
DCF does NOT protect the children that they should protect!"

 

[RR0004]

I agree. I get tired of the "legally, she wasn't their kid" flag being waved. I don't know about anyone else, but if I know bad situation is going on, I don't look the other way and not do a darn thing because I have no legal rights. It's called morals and ethics, and the A's don't have any, period. Cindy knew full well she had an irresponsible, thieving and partying daughter living in her household and chose to ignore it for her fantasy of what she wanted Casey to be. And she held George's spine, so he became a wimp dad that never did anything because his wife told him not to. He knew what Casey was too, but never did anything about it. Poor Caylee paid for it with her life.

Casey was content with her mom covering for her. She was never really going to move out of that house. She was just going to keep lying, stealing, and partying as much as she wanted to, and if her parents continued to get in her way, she'd make them pay for it with their lives. I have no doubt of that. She was telling Amy she was getting the house, and it was just going to be the two of them. How the heck would that work with the A's still being alive? The A's don't know how lucky they are to still be alive at this point.

Bottom line, no, they didn't kill Caylee. But they had a moral and ethical obligation to give a damn about her welfare when she was out of their sight with Casey, who they knew was an unfit mother. I have no doubt they knew, but looked the other way and pretended to the outside world that their house was perfect. To me, that is morally and ethically WRONG.

I bet they figured she'd return home when the money ran out (???)...never did they imagine that Amy had checks lying around.
"Bonding" my a$$!