Casey & Family Psychological Profile #1

[Sherbie]

Sherbie, wow, that is an amazing post! Even before you mentioned the word "sociopath," your comments reminded me of some things I read about sociopaths during the Scott Peterson case. The emotional incest you describe is very much like what I remember reading . . . that this kind of "ideal love" between parent and child, where the parent is actually getting their own needs met by controling the child, is the kind of environment in which people become sociopaths.

I absolutely agree that this seems to be the dynamic with the Anthonys.

I feel so bad for your young relative. Could you print out your post and send it to him? Is there any way he might be willing to go to counseling with you? It can be hard for people to take that first step to get help. But the sooner the better.

It was an eye-opener for me when I talked to that therapist. When he explained the "emotional incest" thing to me, I was just nodding as he went along because every bit of it applied to my relatives, and it made so much sense when he explained that it was the adult getting their needs met through the process. It's hard to convince the enabling person that they are doing too much, loving too much, and that it's destructive.

Thank you so much for your kind words...that was so sweet. My heart breaks for this young man. I have begged him to go to counseling, even tried to bribe him with money if he'd go (awful, I know...but I was desperate!). I also offered for him to move in with us, so long as he followed the rules (which would have included basically just showing common courtesy to others in the house). I think even if he would've given it serious consideration that would've been the deal-breaker for him since he's never been subjected to rules in his entire life.

He knows this situation is not good for him, and as an adult, he's gonna have to make the decision to get out of it -- I can't do it for him, much as I would give anything to be able to. So I just pray for him and let him know I'm there and that there's an alternative to the way he's living now.

I could completely have the wrong picture of Cindy and Casey since I know only what we've learned the past two months, but boy it sure strikes a nerve with me -- deja vu, all over again, as they say!

By the way, my real life nickname is Bunny, and I love your little avatar! I collect all kinds of little bunny things, so I stole your pic and saved it to my puter...LOL

 

[Tuba]

I'm sure you haven't forgotten the apprehensive and protective look on Caylee's face as the camera snapped her picture on Father's Day. As if she wanted to remain with Granda. I know I haven't.

 

[Laneymae]

Sherbie,

You spent a lot of time putting that post together and I can feel lots of love in that post, too. Just wanted to say thank you for opening your life up to give us a glimpse of what the Anthony's may be experiencing.

Thank you!
:blowkiss:

 

[Laneymae]

I'm no expert and haven't really even talked to any about something like this, but I believe that some things are inherited. To me, an enabler also has some sort of personality disorder and the two have some twisted relationship that feeds off each other. One may manipulate the enabler and get them off in another direction distracted from what the sociopath has really done. One thing I've wondered about the family in this case is if Casey may at times be either totally bad or totally good in Cindy's eyes which is a symptom of personality disorder. She was talking bad about Casey to R.P. warning him to stay away because she is a sociopath. She went from threatening Casey with arrest to totally defending her as mother of the year. Definitely abnormal if this is how they live their daily lives.

This is what I wonder about, too, txsvicki. Cindy thought that this was just another one of Casey's antics and this is how Cindy usually handled it. Threaten and threaten, until Casey comes clean (or comes up with a better excuse), and all is good again until the next incident. Something happened during the arguement between Cindy and Casey on Father's day that caused the whole situation to explode. I would love to know what was said. I think that is key to what happened.

Casey placates Cindy and they go on with their life. Cindy knew that Casey lied, was lazy, thought only about herself, etc, and Cindy learned how to handle it. Cindy even acknowledged to Casey's friends that Casey was a sociopath. When this blew up in Cindy's face, and everything was made public, Cindy backtracked. I believe if Cindy had known this would be the outcome, Cindy would have handled this differently. If this would not have been made so public, I think the Anthony's would have cooperated with LE more willingly.

Cindy feels guilty that she started this whole thing, never in a million years thinking it would turn out like this. Even Cindy was unprepared for this outcome.

I'm really torn and so confused by everything that has happened. Cindy seems like she has it all together, but is so shocked by what is happening that she is now closing ranks in order to keep her family together. She knew something was wrong with Casey. I just wonder what kind of a parent Cindy was? Did she try to make herself the only important person in Casey's life, and was she trying to do that to Caylee?

But if so, wasn't Cindy trying to make Casey more responsible and take some accountability for Caylee.

I spent hours today trying to locate any info on any criminal/psychological profile for Cindy. Did not find much except the post about Sherbie's extended family.

I would love to get some links added or get insights by some therapist/psychologists and what they think of this situation. I know they could not diagnose her, but could offer some insights, like Sherbie did.

I think we are all so intrigued by this because what Casey has done is unfathomable, to us. As much as we try to get into her head and make logic of this, we cannot, as we do not think like she does.

 

[suspicious mind]

Will they ever, even after trial etc. make her official psycho analysis done by the courts public?

 

[DAWN TREADER]

PEOPLE OF THE LIE


M. Scott Peck, in his bookPeople of the Lie, suggests that truly evil people demonstrate "malignant narcissism", a term coined by Erich Fromm.

Interestingly, Peck says this narcissism is characterized by an "unsubmitted will". p. 78 He goes on...everyone who is mentally healthy submits themselves to something higher than themselves. Be it God, an ideal, truth, etc. The narcissist is consumed with his/her own image and his/her desires (specifically that they not be intruded upon).

"In Buber's word, the malignantly narcissistic insist upon 'affirmation independent of all findings'." p. 80 Peck distinguishes between sin "missing the mark" and evil, which the malignant narcissist demonstrates, which involves both a denial of any sin, cover-up, and/or blame-placing.

http://andersonbrent.blogspot.com/2007/11/evil-is-malignant-narcissism.html

People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil
by M. Scott Peck

 

[sariebell]

Sherbie,

Awesome post. Very articulate as well as heart-wrenching. I think it is great that you are parlaying your own experiences into a means of understanding this case. Good luck with your family member and the issues at hand

 

[Laneymae]

I think that this is going to go to trial, and only if Casey takes the insanity plea, will her psychological exam will come out during trial.

I don't think she will take the insanity plea though, as Casey will never admit what she did to Caylee.

I would love to see the psych exam released with the next release of documents, but I doubt it.

 

[Short_Stuff]

I wonder if a professional has evaluated her and came to a conclusion?
Because I don't think Casey is mentally ill. She knows what she is doing and is good at the lying.
I do think if her family and others would stop enabling and bailing her out, there is a slight chance she could crack if she feels all alone.
Just imagine, she has never ever ever had to learn a lesson and take consequences for her actions, and it is about time she should have consequences. But as long as this continues, with people sticking up for her, and helping her, she will continue to get away with it.
I can actually see her going free except for the lesser charges and that is a sad shame when something could be done if her family would only listen!

 

[Betty Boop]

This is a great thread. Can someone here please render an opinion on the following:

Casey allowed her mother to "drag" her home, report her to the police, make her talk on the phone to the 911 operator. Why didn't she say something smart aleck like she did from jail, including "I'm outta here Mama buh-bye". She just let her mother lead her by the . . . uh . . . nose. Sounds so compliant.

There is just something strange about that scenario to me. I hope someone can shed some light on it for me. Thanks.

 

[Betty Boop]

PEOPLE OF THE LIE


M. Scott Peck, in his bookPeople of the Lie, suggests that truly evil people demonstrate "malignant narcissism", a term coined by Erich Fromm.

Interestingly, Peck says this narcissism is characterized by an "unsubmitted will". p. 78 He goes on...everyone who is mentally healthy submits themselves to something higher than themselves. Be it God, an ideal, truth, etc. The narcissist is consumed with his/her own image and his/her desires (specifically that they not be intruded upon).

"In Buber's word, the malignantly narcissistic insist upon 'affirmation independent of all findings'." p. 80 Peck distinguishes between sin "missing the mark" and evil, which the malignant narcissist demonstrates, which involves both a denial of any sin, cover-up, and/or blame-placing.

http://andersonbrent.blogspot.com/2007/11/evil-is-malignant-narcissism.html

People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil
by M. Scott Peck

This would certainly help to explain how Casey can "hold her head high because she hasn't done anything!"

 

[Invisible]

I am not sure where to post this, but I think this thread might be a good place to start. This is an observation that I made last night while watching 20/20 and something that I had noticed in pictures of Casey that I had seen of her previously. I might be totally off the wall, but here it goes...I noticed that when Casey smiles, it seems like a fake smile, a fake smile in that she puts her front teeth together and pulls her lips back. I know, I know, it's probably just the way she smiles, but it seem strange to me, like there could be some psychological reason for the way she smiles.

 

[MysteryAddict]

PEOPLE OF THE LIE


M. Scott Peck, in his bookPeople of the Lie, suggests that truly evil people demonstrate "malignant narcissism", a term coined by Erich Fromm.

Interestingly, Peck says this narcissism is characterized by an "unsubmitted will". p. 78 He goes on...everyone who is mentally healthy submits themselves to something higher than themselves. Be it God, an ideal, truth, etc. The narcissist is consumed with his/her own image and his/her desires (specifically that they not be intruded upon).

"In Buber's word, the malignantly narcissistic insist upon 'affirmation independent of all findings'." p. 80 Peck distinguishes between sin "missing the mark" and evil, which the malignant narcissist demonstrates, which involves both a denial of any sin, cover-up, and/or blame-placing.

http://andersonbrent.blogspot.com/2007/11/evil-is-malignant-narcissism.html

People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil
by M. Scott Peck

I would say that "affirmation independent of all findings" fits both
Cindy and Casey!

 

[bookworm474]

Why not investigate schizoaffective disorder? Sure looks to me like Casey was never diagnosed properly and seem by professionals who might have gotten to the root of the lying ages ago as well as mood problems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoaffective_disorder

 

[BeagleMom]

Great thread!!

First, I remember that the bond judge did request a psych eval on Casey.

I have a question for all of you. Knowing what we know about the Anthonys. Combining the brain power on this website....

What if Casey read this thread. Would she see herself in this? HOw would she rationalize that there are people out there that know what she is doing? That there are people out there that she can not con. Would she even be interested in this thread?

What about Cindy? How would she explain all these beliefs.

Also, does not being "face to face" with potential victims change how they work? I mean, how can both of them change our minds on this website, since they aren't right in our faces?

I know this is an unusual question. But, I want to know what ya'll might think Cindy and/of Casey's reactions would be if they were sitting home (we know they aren't out looking for Klee) this afternoon reading this.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom and thoughts!!

Respectfully,
BeagleMom

 

[tiredofthis]

Excellent post! As for the part I bolded, brilliant observation! I remember on one of the very first jail tapes, Casey very sarcastically referred to CA's "cameo appearances" in the media. Those two are locked in a very dysfunctional dance and, as you say, both are goin' down together.

The entire family is going down together. : (

 

[GreenTeam]

It was an eye-opener for me when I talked to that therapist. When he explained the "emotional incest" thing to me, I was just nodding as he went along because every bit of it applied to my relatives, and it made so much sense when he explained that it was the adult getting their needs met through the process. It's hard to convince the enabling person that they are doing too much, loving too much, and that it's destructive.

Thank you so much for your kind words...that was so sweet. My heart breaks for this young man. I have begged him to go to counseling, even tried to bribe him with money if he'd go (awful, I know...but I was desperate!). I also offered for him to move in with us, so long as he followed the rules (which would have included basically just showing common courtesy to others in the house). I think even if he would've given it serious consideration that would've been the deal-breaker for him since he's never been subjected to rules in his entire life.

He knows this situation is not good for him, and as an adult, he's gonna have to make the decision to get out of it -- I can't do it for him, much as I would give anything to be able to. So I just pray for him and let him know I'm there and that there's an alternative to the way he's living now.

I could completely have the wrong picture of Cindy and Casey since I know only what we've learned the past two months, but boy it sure strikes a nerve with me -- deja vu, all over again, as they say!

By the way, my real life nickname is Bunny, and I love your little avatar! I collect all kinds of little bunny things, so I stole your pic and saved it to my puter...LOL

You are welcome! Glad you like the bunny, LOL! I love bunnies. You are right, you can't "fix" your relative, you can only offer him your love and prayers and support, and the rest is up to him. I do think you have great insight into the Cindy/Casey relationship. Thanks for sharing! :blowkiss:

 

[FLjay]

Excellent post! As for the part I bolded, brilliant observation! I remember on one of the very first jail tapes, Casey very sarcastically referred to CA's "cameo appearances" in the media. Those two are locked in a very dysfunctional dance and, as you say, both are goin' down together.

Most sad for me was an interview in I think "On the Record" of M. Klaus. He looked very sad, and made the very sad observation that we were watching the destruction of a family. I just wanted to cry with him.

This was on a day early on (in July?) when Cindy was telling us to "look for Caylee" and defending Casey. It is very sad -- like watching a train wreck in progress, nothing can be done to prevent.

I have wished & prayed that there could PLEASE be mental health counselors available to help them work through what would for the 'normal' (or better said, "functional", as someone above pointed out) person be unbearable grief and sense of loss: not only of Caylee's life, but of innocence irretrievably lost ... not only Casey's life as they know it or have chosen to see it to this point, but of their entire family ...

I have not heard any talk of spiritual advisors of any sort; no requests for prayer, or appeal to God for mercy for their lost little one ... and no gratitude at what has been done for them by so many people in so many ways ... instead castigating the OCSO, TES, and Tim (who looked so weary the other night...). This whole dynamic is SO off, SO wrong.

I am reminded of M. Scott Peck's book, "People of the Lie". If I can find it, I'll try to post something from it. I remember just setting the book down at points, trying to take in the import of what he was writing about evil people.

 

[Betty Boop]

Most sad for me was an interview in I think "On the Record" of M. Klaus. He looked very sad, and made the very sad observation that we were watching the destruction of a family. I just wanted to cry with him.

This was on a day early on (in July?) when Cindy was telling us to "look for Caylee" and defending Casey. It is very sad -- like watching a train wreck in progress, nothing can be done to prevent.

I have wished & prayed that there could PLEASE be mental health counselors available to help them work through what would for the 'normal' person be unbearable grief and sense of loss: not only of Caylee's life, but of innocence irretrievably lost ... not only Casey's life as they know it or have chosen to see it to this point, but of their entire family ...

I have not heard any talk of spiritual advisors of any sort; no requests for prayer, or appeal to God for mercy for their lost little one ... and no gratitude at what has been done for them by so many people in so many ways ... instead castigating the OCSO, TES, and Tim (who looked so weary the other night...). This whole dynamic is SO off, SO wrong.

I am reminded of M. Scott Peck's book, "People of the Lie". If I can find it, I'll try to post something from it. I remember just setting the book down at points, trying to take in the import of what he was writing about evil people.

Nice post! They have a captive audience, with the media poised to transmit everything they say, and they choose to use that time to blame.

I have seen various quotes here from "People of the Lie". I guess I need to put it on my reading list.

 

[FLjay]

Nice post! They have a captive audience, with the media poised to transmit everything they say, and they choose to use that time to blame.

I have seen various quotes here from "People of the Lie". I guess I need to put it on my reading list.

It is an incredible book. I did not necessarily agree with all he wrote, but it certainly provides food for thought. He discusses malignant narcisism and the need for LIES and subterfuge. I do not have my highlighted & marked copy with me ... but a google search of "People of the Lie" gives an overview.

I'm still thinking of M. Klaus and other thoroughly decent people entwined in this case who feel such sorrow over the evil and chaos that CA is wreaking. It is a stark juxtaposition of "good" and "evil", and Caylee, unfortunately, is only one of its victims.