Casey & Family Psychological Profile #10

[Kentjbkent]

I too was slightly surprised she didn't turn around, or for that matter, even acknowledge them when she came into the courtroom. It's almost like she's trying to show them that she's disowned them. So the argument about the jail visits being private seems a moot point since I don't think she really wants them to come see her anyway ~ unless it's to put money in her commissary account. MOO

But if you take into account the mind and thoughts of a sociopath, it really is NOT surprising. KC has no feelings of emotion at all, and any and all actions, thoughts or gestures are only for HER benefit. (Her actions towards her parents seem odd and surprising to us who are NOT sociopathic because no matter what, we FEEL the emotion of love between parent and child. KC doesn't have the ability to feel this devotion (imo)

The Anthonys no longer have anything to offer KC. They are basically "used up" in her frame of reference. They no longer exist so they are disregarded. At this point, only Baez and AL have anything to offer KC, getting her out of this mess, so her sole focus is on them!

 

[Eidetic]

But if you take into account the mind and thoughts of a sociopath, it really is NOT surprising. KC has no feelings of emotion at all, and any and all actions, thoughts or gestures are only for HER benefit. (Her actions towards her parents seem odd and surprising to us who are NOT sociopathic because no matter what, we FEEL the emotion of love between parent and child. KC doesn't have the ability to feel this devotion (imo)

The Anthonys no longer have anything to offer KC. They are basically "used up" in her frame of reference. They no longer exist so they are disregarded. At this point, only Baez and AL have anything to offer KC, getting her out of this mess, so her sole focus is on them!

In my opinion, in Caseys mind they are the reason she is where she is.
I am sure she is aware of what has been said in LE interviews and is none too thrilled that comments made by her own family could end up hurting her case.
The phone call home when she told off Cindy before asking for Tonys number and instead of Cindy letting her have it, she handled her with kid gloves and passed her off to Lee because Casey didn't want to talk to her. I believe these are the accurate Anthony family dynamics, not the damage control that took place shortly after in an attempt to paint the public a picture of a close, loving family.

The public is not that gullible. There is a pattern here of Caseys temper, and her spotlight demanding personality spinning out of control if attention is taken from her beyond just that phone call. There are her police interviews, video of her controlling conversation in the jail house visits...

I hope at this point, the Anthonys are eager to get this ball rolling and truly do want the murderer to pay for what they have done. They have to, at some point be willing to accept the "all signs point to" slap in the face of reality when evidence is presented, as hard as that pill is to swallow, their Casey finally messed her own and everyone else even remotely involved in this case, lives up this bad. Especially their beloved Caylee.

They "just want the truth" and evidence, they had better practice making themselves sit there and listen to what is being presented.
They owe it to their grand daughter to acknowledge what has happened to her and who the evidence says is responsible for it.

Time to direct the anger at Casey for trapping them all in this nightmare.

 

[JBean]

Bumpity bump
Good time to remind you about professional posters. The only professional that as been verfied in terms of psychological and character analysis is knot4u2no.

Please keep this in mind when deciding how much weight to put into each posters analysis of the situation. The deductions here and on previous psych threads are largely just our opinions and not based on any professional experience. This applies to all the threads and to all posts.
thanks


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92404"]Professional Posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Eidetic]

What is BFD?

I think you mistook the P as in BiPolar Disorder, for an F.
CA's mother discusses the family history of it on George's side and says she thinks Casey has it.

Borderline Personality Disorder is quite fitting as well.

ETA, :iamashamed0005: I just saw Brini posted that is what she meant. I have got to stop replying before I read the whole thread...:loser:

 

[Searchfortruth]

I would be very surprised if any of the family put the blame on Casey for Caylee's murder, ever. I don't know how to describe or name their dysfunction, but it certainly runs deep within their family. At times, I have thought that the cherade Cindy and George put on is for their benefit only. There seems to be no separation between Cindy and Casey, no boundaries. When Casey is publicly attacked, it is as if Cindy sees the attack as directed at her.

I hope that one day there is a book that explains in detail this family dynamic, in laymens terms, of course. I would like to understand.

 

[LadyL]

I would be very surprised if any of the family put the blame on Casey for Caylee's murder, ever. I don't know how to describe or name their dysfunction, but it certainly runs deep within their family. At times, I have thought that the cherade Cindy and George put on is for their benefit only. There seems to be no separation between Cindy and Casey, no boundaries. When Casey is publicly attacked, it is as if Cindy sees the attack as directed at her.

I hope that one day there is a book that explains in detail this family dynamic, in laymens terms, of course. I would like to understand.

I want to know when & how the 'dysfunction', whatever it is, developed. The maternal grandmother seems to not have a problem with the truth or be in denial, although she decided not to pursue charges against KC but she was pretty blunt in that LE interview. We know that CA's one brother, although harsh IMO, isn't in denial. How did CA allow herself to get snowed so badly by a 'psychopathic' daughter?

JMO - I am no expert.

 

[Kentjbkent]

I want to know when & how the 'dysfunction', whatever it is, developed. The maternal grandmother seems to not have a problem with the truth or be in denial, although she decided not to pursue charges against KC but she was pretty blunt in that LE interview. We know that CA's one brother, although harsh IMO, isn't in denial. How did CA allow herself to get snowed so badly by a 'psychopathic' daughter?
JMO - I am no expert.

As I have stated previously, I believe that KC is definitely sociopathic/psychopathic (opinion) and I suspect from the history we know about that CA also displays some type of personality dysfunction, but cannot say exactly what it is.

I think the clashing of these two obvious personality disorders created the dysfunction in this family.

JMO

 

[azwriter]

But if you take into account the mind and thoughts of a sociopath, it really is NOT surprising. KC has no feelings of emotion at all, and any and all actions, thoughts or gestures are only for HER benefit. (Her actions towards her parents seem odd and surprising to us who are NOT sociopathic because no matter what, we FEEL the emotion of love between parent and child. KC doesn't have the ability to feel this devotion (imo)

The Anthonys no longer have anything to offer KC. They are basically "used up" in her frame of reference. They no longer exist so they are disregarded. At this point, only Baez and AL have anything to offer KC, getting her out of this mess, so her sole focus is on them!

Good post.
A true sociopath does not have any idea what others feel. They are completely oblivious to other's pain, physical, mental and spiritual. That's how they can committ murder, or inflict pain on others. Their mind has completely divorced itself from feeling anything toward other people.
While the rest of us shake our head and say "How can she do that?" She can, because she is not aware others hurt or are uncomfortable. We, who are not sociopathic have such a difficult time understanding these people.
Believe me, Casey was not crying real tears in court the other day. Sure she was wiping her eyes. Cause that's what what she has learned is a sign of people crying. She was dabbing and wiping but recovered very quickly. She is just going through the motions. To her crying is exhibited by someone wiping their eyes. When she's looking at her finger afterward, she could very well be wondering where's the tears. She's looking for them. But she does not have any.
But, she does have anger and her red face and clutching her wrist is a sign of her anger to things she does not want to hear mainly about herself! That's why she reacted to the prosecutions argument of what Caylee when through. She wasn't wasting her emotions on what happened to her daughter, she was only feeling anger that someone else is saying these things about her.
End of my observations.

 

[Eidetic]

Casey was jealous of Cindy and Caylee, Cindy also admitted to being jealous of Casey on tape...

Every time I hear this song it reminds me in a way, of what Casey did feel toward Caylee.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLr2q5DIvHo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLr2q5DIvHo[/ame]

 

[Kentjbkent]

Good post.
A true sociopath does not have any idea what others feel. They are completely oblivious to other's pain, physical, mental and spiritual. That's how they can committ murder, or inflict pain on others. Their mind has completely divorced itself from feeling anything toward other people. While the rest of us shake our head and say "How can she do that?" She can, because she is not aware others hurt or are uncomfortable. We, who are not sociopathic have such a difficult time understanding these people.
Believe me, Casey was not crying real tears in court the other day. Sure she was wiping her eyes. Cause that's what what she has learned is a sign of people crying. She was dabbing and wiping but recovered very quickly. She is just going through the motions. To her crying is exhibited by someone wiping their eyes. When she's looking at her finger afterward, she could very well be wondering where's the tears. She's looking for them. But she does not have any.
But, she does have anger and her red face and clutching her wrist is a sign of her anger to things she does not want to hear mainly about herself! That's why she reacted to the prosecutions argument of what Caylee when through. She wasn't wasting her emotions on what happened to her daughter, she was only feeling anger that someone else is saying these things about her.
End of my observations.

And if you read up on sociopaths, they are completely unable to love....anyone.

(And very good observations you have!)

 

[Searchfortruth]

From what I have read on sociopaths, they have different degrees of dysfunction. Some turn out to be very successful business men/women, others end up in prison. My question is, with Casey being a sociopath, was Cindy's dysfunction responsible for making her daughter's symptoms more severe ? I don't guess there is an easy answer to this question or maybe with the help of you WS'ers there is ?

 

[mitzi]

Good post.
A true sociopath does not have any idea what others feel. They are completely oblivious to other's pain, physical, mental and spiritual. That's how they can committ murder, or inflict pain on others. Their mind has completely divorced itself from feeling anything toward other people.
While the rest of us shake our head and say "How can she do that?" She can, because she is not aware others hurt or are uncomfortable. We, who are not sociopathic have such a difficult time understanding these people.
Believe me, Casey was not crying real tears in court the other day. Sure she was wiping her eyes. Cause that's what what she has learned is a sign of people crying. She was dabbing and wiping but recovered very quickly. She is just going through the motions. To her crying is exhibited by someone wiping their eyes. When she's looking at her finger afterward, she could very well be wondering where's the tears. She's looking for them. But she does not have any.
But, she does have anger and her red face and clutching her wrist is a sign of her anger to things she does not want to hear mainly about herself! That's why she reacted to the prosecutions argument of what Caylee when through. She wasn't wasting her emotions on what happened to her daughter, she was only feeling anger that someone else is saying these things about her.
End of my observations.

Bold mine.

I'd say your observations are right on! :blowkiss:

 

[mitzi]

From what I have read on sociopaths, they have different degrees of dysfunction. Some turn out to be very successful business men/women, others end up in prison. My question is, with Casey being a sociopath, was Cindy's dysfunction responsible for making her daughter's symptoms more severe ? I don't guess there is an easy answer to this question or maybe with the help of you WS'ers there is ?

My thoughts are, the combo of genes KC got from Cindy and from George, made her symptoms more severe. Plus, can you imagine what spending 23 years under Cindy's rule would be like!? Gawd!, I think I'd end up committing suicide if I spent even 1 year with Cindy!

 

[cecybeans]

I'm certainly no expert, but I've been fascinated with the field and how it is beginning to dovetail into neurophysiology the more we learn.

I have no idea what causes sociopathy, whether it is genetics or environment or a little of both. But an analogy comes to mind that I always use when contemplating what it must be like.

When children are very tiny, they look at the world very instrumentally, as if everything in it is an extension of themselves and exists simply to satisfy their own wants and needs. This is natural survival instinct for a being that is helpless to satisfy their own requirements and depends on others for sustenance and safety. Eventually they begin to separate sensations into awareness of other discrete entities, first their caretakers and then other people. Children begin to develop empathy for others around 4 or 5, I believe, although that is probably an average. When they do that, they are not in the self-absorbed prison in which all feeling is about themselves and they then have the latitude to and the joy of contemplating their own feelings or what others may feel. This development allows us all to become effective parents, sibling, friends and members of society if we are able to assign the same value for others' as we do for our own feelings, needs and wants.

However, many adults have difficulty transferring that feeling of empathy to others, even if they are not sociopaths. A dysfunctional domestic environment can kind of burn out the nerve endings and make people numb to normal feeling. Addictions can mitigate the ability to consider others' needs as equal to our own. There are a lot of things both physical and environmental that can disturb that equilibrium or warp it.

Since sociopaths' brain activity is started to be studied with fMRI's and other tools, it is becoming clear to scientists that they process information differently, even if the cause is undetermined. Maybe this will help us understand the differences between them and ourselves and even the different degrees of functioning among sociopaths and other personality disorders.

Sociopaths appear to exhibit the most severe dysfunction in terms of inability develop emotionally and become empathetic to their environment; they are always stuck in the prison of themselves and their own needs and wants. It makes them potentially dangerous to others, but there is something profoundly pitiful about them, as if they are strangers in a strange land, unable to be normal and forever cursed with imitating life instead of experiencing it fully.

We used to call the mentally ill evil and warehouse them, we used to house the mentally disabled the same way. We have come a long way in understanding the psyche, but we have a long ways to go. I think the double-edged sword with sociopaths is that they are often loved by their family, and that can make people blind to what they are capable of doing. But the fact they are loved by others, and appear to be such a common phenomenon, may make it easier to study the condition with compassion, understand it better, and perhaps someday create an effective treatment, or at the least, come up with better strategies to help them and us contain their toxic sides.

It does not change the evil that they can do, and we must always be on guard for that. Imooooooo.

 

[wenwe4]

I don't want to burst anyone's bubble here but the fact that the defense didn't hire their own psychologist to do an evaluation means the state's eval probably won't play that big of a part.

I have completed psych evals for judges (parenting evals, children's psych evals, juvenile sex offender evals)

I have also been hired by the defense to complete psych evals.

Just because she had one completed doesn't mean the defense will say - she's nuts she can't stand trial. Doubtful.

I think that may just be a movie misconception about psychologicals. I really don't think a lot of people really do understand what Psychologists do. We didn't spend 10 of thousands of dollars to complete school, complete research, and do a thesis just to be told we have no clue what we're talking about.

Sorry - I love talking about this stuff but every time a do at least one person pipes up and becomes negative. I don't mind discussing but I would like for people to back up their responses with research or data they have read withouth GOOGLING it. Its like when people come in with a google print out and try to explain their diagnosis with me like they know what they are talking about. I have a groan moment every time this occurs. Ugh.

And I'm not saying she's innocent. I just find it fascinating how these individuals function.

In my region, psych evals of the parents are often included into the court record in Juvenile court, usually as part of a CPS (Child Protection Svcs) investigation and making recommendations for resource referrals. I think they are an extremely valuable tool in helping individuals and families. Since she is no longer parenting, this may not open the door to get it in court. I would venture to guess that if CA had a copy of KC's psych eval when she was wanting to petition the court to gain custody of her Granddaughter, it would have been helpful (although I don't think KC was ever investigated by CPS previously). It is interesting that she never had prenatal care until at least the 7th month, here that would be at least a red flag at the hospital where the Mom delivered. If the baby were healthy and both appeared to be doing well together, it would not warrant investigation however.

 

[OneLostGrl]

From what I have read on sociopaths, they have different degrees of dysfunction. Some turn out to be very successful business men/women, others end up in prison. My question is, with Casey being a sociopath, was Cindy's dysfunction responsible for making her daughter's symptoms more severe ? I don't guess there is an easy answer to this question or maybe with the help of you WS'ers there is ?

Well, ya'll already know what my vote is! lol

 

[precious]

Good post.
A true sociopath does not have any idea what others feel. They are completely oblivious to other's pain, physical, mental and spiritual. That's how they can committ murder, or inflict pain on others. Their mind has completely divorced itself from feeling anything toward other people.
While the rest of us shake our head and say "How can she do that?" She can, because she is not aware others hurt or are uncomfortable. We, who are not sociopathic have such a difficult time understanding these people.
Believe me, Casey was not crying real tears in court the other day. Sure she was wiping her eyes. Cause that's what what she has learned is a sign of people crying. She was dabbing and wiping but recovered very quickly. She is just going through the motions. To her crying is exhibited by someone wiping their eyes. When she's looking at her finger afterward, she could very well be wondering where's the tears. She's looking for them. But she does not have any.
But, she does have anger and her red face and clutching her wrist is a sign of her anger to things she does not want to hear mainly about herself! That's why she reacted to the prosecutions argument of what Caylee when through. She wasn't wasting her emotions on what happened to her daughter, she was only feeling anger that someone else is saying these things about her.
End of my observations.

Thank you. Extremely well said. I know someone who is exactly like KC.
You described her perfectly.

 

[scorpion1110]

Good post.
A true sociopath does not have any idea what others feel. They are completely oblivious to other's pain, physical, mental and spiritual. That's how they can committ murder, or inflict pain on others. Their mind has completely divorced itself from feeling anything toward other people.
While the rest of us shake our head and say "How can she do that?" She can, because she is not aware others hurt or are uncomfortable. We, who are not sociopathic have such a difficult time understanding these people.
Believe me, Casey was not crying real tears in court the other day. Sure she was wiping her eyes. Cause that's what what she has learned is a sign of people crying. She was dabbing and wiping but recovered very quickly. She is just going through the motions. To her crying is exhibited by someone wiping their eyes. When she's looking at her finger afterward, she could very well be wondering where's the tears. She's looking for them. But she does not have any.
But, she does have anger and her red face and clutching her wrist is a sign of her anger to things she does not want to hear mainly about herself! That's why she reacted to the prosecutions argument of what Caylee when through. She wasn't wasting her emotions on what happened to her daughter, she was only feeling anger that someone else is saying these things about her.
End of my observations.

VERY GOOD observations :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[cecybeans]

In my region, psych evals of the parents are often included into the court record in Juvenile court, usually as part of a CPS (Child Protection Svcs) investigation and making recommendations for resource referrals. I think they are an extremely valuable tool in helping individuals and families. Since she is no longer parenting, this may not open the door to get it in court. I would venture to guess that if CA had a copy of KC's psych eval when she was wanting to petition the court to gain custody of her Granddaughter, it would have been helpful (although I don't think KC was ever investigated by CPS previously). It is interesting that she never had prenatal care until at least the 7th month, here that would be at least a red flag at the hospital where the Mom delivered. If the baby were healthy and both appeared to be doing well together, it would not warrant investigation however.

You know, I've been thinking about this. Do we really know she had no prenatal care? All we know is that CA denied knowing she was pregnant to her coworkers and her brother. But she had sonograms up on the wall in Caylee's room (put there after she was gone, imo). Those are usually taken before the 7th month. Perhaps CA did know and took her to the doc earlier on but decided to act like the emperor had clothes on afterward and treat people like they were imagining things.

 

[BetsyB]

Originally Posted by azwriter View Post
Good post.
A true sociopath does not have any idea what others feel. They are completely oblivious to other's pain, physical, mental and spiritual. That's how they can committ murder, or inflict pain on others. Their mind has completely divorced itself from feeling anything toward other people.

This is not really accurate. Sociopaths may, in fact, be able to identify what others are feeling quite competently. In fact, they may quite relish the emotional responses of others. They don't care, and don't empathize, but they do, in fact, have an idea what others feel. They themselves experience emotion (if not remorse and empathy) and therefore can identify it in others.

Manipulating others' emotions for sport is one of my sociopath father's favorite activities.