Casey Returned to the Disposal Site - Theories

[RANCH]

I posted this info on the July 2 ping thread - didn't realize this one existed until a day after. So, please forgive me posting it twice.

Werner Spitz, a forensic pathology expert, who testified on behalf of the defense, on June 18, 2011, stated: “It is my opinion that the duct tape was applied there after the skin had deteriorated, after the skin has decomposed.”

In the autopsy report, John Shultz states: “It would be expected that decomposition of a small child in Florida that is deposited in an outdoor environment during the summer months would have occurred in less than a month and most likely within two weeks.” In addition, some of the bones were found away from the skull and have been determined to have been dragged away from the main spot when they still had soft tissue on them.

If KC went to the remains site on July 2nd, she would have found a nearly decomposed skull with many other parts of the body already missing. That definitely could have given her reason for the nightmares reported by Tony L, and give a good reason to make a “comforting” phone call to Ryan P. That could also be why the only time she turned her head away from the evidence is when they were showing the skull.

I never really believed the killing with duct tape version.

As crazy as it may sound, I also wanted to share another theory. People usually get tattoos to commemorate someone or an event. I believe that the following day KC went to get a tattoo to remember Caylee's life as a "beautiful life". What you you all think?

I'm not following.Your saying that she saw skeletal remains at the recovery scene and that caused nightmares and a phone call to RP.How do you know KC was at the scene on july 2nd?

 

[eve80]

Her cell phone pings from July 2, 2008, at about 4 a.m. are placing her at the remains site. This whole thread is about theories as to what happened that time.

 

[RANCH]

Her cell phone pings from July 2, 2008, at about 4 a.m. are placing her at the remains site. This whole thread is about theories as to what happened that time.

Ok. I looked up thread and saw a link to an article that JWG wrote. Its a good theory.And I should note that its a hinky meter article. Who I believe to be unbiased.MOO.

 

[2goldfish]

I never much entertained FCA returning to dump site because it seemed too cliche and stupid to me.

but since watching the trial I believe she did. the only true emotion she showed during testimony was whenever the words animals, chewing, and bones came around. clearly that memory does something to her that the memory of the actual murder, decomp in the trunk, and dumping do not. IMO of course.

 

[2goldfish]

Her cell phone pings from July 2, 2008, at about 4 a.m. are placing her at the remains site. This whole thread is about theories as to what happened that time.

oohhh, see that is what I get for staying out of threads all this time when I dont consider the theories. more fool me.

what were the dates or was the date TL woke to find FCA in (a) cold sweat(s), and once caught her up watching videos of caylee? after the pings july 2nd?

 

[jon_burrows]

I posted this info on the July 2 ping thread - didn't realize this one existed until a day after. So, please forgive me posting it twice.

Werner Spitz, a forensic pathology expert, who testified on behalf of the defense, on June 18, 2011, stated: “It is my opinion that the duct tape was applied there after the skin had deteriorated, after the skin has decomposed.”

In the autopsy report, John Shultz states: “It would be expected that decomposition of a small child in Florida that is deposited in an outdoor environment during the summer months would have occurred in less than a month and most likely within two weeks.” In addition, some of the bones were found away from the skull and have been determined to have been dragged away from the main spot when they still had soft tissue on them.

If KC went to the remains site on July 2nd, she would have found a nearly decomposed skull with many other parts of the body already missing. That definitely could have given her reason for the nightmares reported by Tony L, and give a good reason to make a “comforting” phone call to Ryan P. That could also be why the only time she turned her head away from the evidence is when they were showing the skull.

I never really believed the killing with duct tape version.

As crazy as it may sound, I also wanted to share another theory. People usually get tattoos to commemorate someone or an event. I believe that the following day KC went to get a tattoo to remember Caylee's life as a "beautiful life". What you you all think?

BBM - FCA had no problem watching the skull video when the jury was not present. She turned her head away when the jury was present.

IMO

 

[vlpate]

BBM - FCA had no problem watching the skull video when the jury was not present. She turned her head away when the jury was present.

IMO

I could have sworn they said, during the trial on HLN, that the screen was blocked from her view during that slide show. The cringing and crying was an act IMO.

I don't believe for a minute she got the tattoo to commemorate Caylee's life - she got it after verifying Caylee was deteriorated beyond forensic discovery. Ok, I may be wrong about the very last part, she's not that smart.

 

[jon_burrows]

I could have sworn they said, during the trial on HLN, that the screen was blocked from her view during that slide show. The cringing and crying was an act IMO.

I don't believe for a minute she got the tattoo to commemorate Caylee's life - she got it after verifying Caylee was deteriorated beyond forensic discovery. Ok, I may be wrong about the very last part, she's not that smart.

I think we're talking about two different pieces of evidence/pictures/video. I'm talking about the video where Caylee's face turned into her skull. It was played twice because the defense objected to the video. The jury was sent out and the video was played for the first time. FCA watched the entire video. She had no problems watching the video outside the jury's presence.

The judge allowed the video in so they brought the jury back and showed it again. FCA put on a big show for the jury.

FCA acted completely different in front of the jury throughout the entire trial.

ITA, all the cringing, crying, and burying herself into DS' arm pit was all an act. The tattoo had nothing to do with Caylee, it was all FCA.


IMO

 

[Chilly Willy]

I don't believe Casey was the least bit interested in the remains site, Caylee was out of sight, out of mind. If pings show her near the Anthony home at that time I'd say it's more likely that she was watching the house with hopes that George and Cindy would leave so she could go inside and retrieve something, or it could be simply that she had no place to go, she was locked out of Tonys and no one else wanted her.

 

[vlpate]

I think we're talking about two different pieces of evidence/pictures/video. I'm talking about the video where Caylee's face turned into her skull. It was played twice because the defense objected to the video. The jury was sent out and the video was played for the first time. FCA watched the entire video. She had no problems watching the video outside the jury's presence.

The judge allowed the video in so they brought the jury back and showed it again. FCA put on a big show for the jury.

FCA acted completely different in front of the jury throughout the entire trial.

ITA, all the cringing, crying, and burying herself into DS' arm pit was all an act. The tattoo had nothing to do with Caylee, it was all FCA.


IMO

Oh ok, gotcha. I missed the testimony that day, but I caught the highlights and all of them only showed her drama viewing.

 

[com n sense]

I posted this info on the July 2 ping thread - didn't realize this one existed until a day after. So, please forgive me posting it twice.

Werner Spitz, a forensic pathology expert, who testified on behalf of the defense, on June 18, 2011, stated: “It is my opinion that the duct tape was applied there after the skin had deteriorated, after the skin has decomposed.”

In the autopsy report, John Shultz states: “It would be expected that decomposition of a small child in Florida that is deposited in an outdoor environment during the summer months would have occurred in less than a month and most likely within two weeks.” In addition, some of the bones were found away from the skull and have been determined to have been dragged away from the main spot when they still had soft tissue on them.

If KC went to the remains site on July 2nd, she would have found a nearly decomposed skull with many other parts of the body already missing. That definitely could have given her reason for the nightmares reported by Tony L, and give a good reason to make a “comforting” phone call to Ryan P. That could also be why the only time she turned her head away from the evidence is when they were showing the skull.

I never really believed the killing with duct tape version.

As crazy as it may sound, I also wanted to share another theory. People usually get tattoos to commemorate someone or an event. I believe that the following day KC went to get a tattoo to remember Caylee's life as a "beautiful life". What you you all think?

I am one that believes she duct taped that babies face for saying too much to Cee Cee. Like a message, I'll teach you a lesson
for telling on me.

The main reasons I believe she killed her own baby with the duct tape is
# 1 - duct tape will not stick to a wet surface, ruling out being put on to stop fluids & ruling out putting it on a body that had just drown.
# 2 - When Lee first talked to Casey about the where abouts of Caylee after her arrival home, she was sticking to the Nanny kidnapped Caylee story.
It wasn't until Lee said "lets role play here, I will be the police & you be you"

"Good evening Miss Anthony, where is your daughter"

She's with the Nanny officer""

Let's take a ride over there & get her right now"

Lee stated she look at him with an Oh No, what am I going to do now look on her face""
That is when she told Lee Caylee had been kidnapped.
IMO it was then that she first thought of the kidnapping story because she knew she could never produce Caylee for the police.
It proves to me that she never placed that duct tape around Caylees face to set up the kidnapping story.
This is only MO & not intended to sway anyone in any way.

 

[eve80]

Don't worry, I signed up with this website just to FINALLY exchange some ideas. I have nobody to do it with. This case has taken up wayyyy more of my time than it ever should have and so far I have never talked to any one because most of other websites have theories that clearly go against evidence. This is only website that I found that focuses on real data and members are educated on it.

Now to your response. Good point, I didn't think about that A-ha moment. I'll give it some thought and maybe check the interview with Lee again. It's definitely a possibility.

I think though that duct tape might stick to wet surfaces (well, according to MythBusters , I never checked it myself). My thought is, do you think there would be no DNA on it whatsoever? I realize it was soaked for an extended period of time but still... nothing? I can understand there would be no fingerprints, I watched a show the other day when they found some fingerprints on gloves from a bag that was dumped in a river and stayed there for a long period of time and the examining person stated that this was rare since fingerprints would not survive water, but why no DNA? I wish they had released the evidence to the expert in Netherlands, he has a different technique of recovering it from very small samples...

 

[Chilly Willy]

Don't worry, I signed up with this website just to FINALLY exchange some ideas. I have nobody to do it with. This case has taken up wayyyy more of my time than it ever should have and so far I have never talked to any one because most of other websites have theories that clearly go against evidence. This is only website that I found that focuses on real data and members are educated on it.

Now to your response. Good point, I didn't think about that A-ha moment. I'll give it some thought and maybe check the interview with Lee again. It's definitely a possibility.

I think though that duct tape might stick to wet surfaces (well, according to MythBusters , I never checked it myself). My thought is, do you think there would be no DNA on it whatsoever? I realize it was soaked for an extended period of time but still... nothing? I can understand there would be no fingerprints, I watched a show the other day when they found some fingerprints on gloves from a bag that was dumped in a river and stayed there for a long period of time and the examining person stated that this was rare since fingerprints would not survive water, but why no DNA? I wish they had released the evidence to the expert in Netherlands, he has a different technique of recovering it from very small samples...

The process of decomposition destroys DNA. That's also why there was no DNA found in the trunk stain.

 

[eve80]

Chilly Willy,
Wow, I didn't know that. Thanks for the reply. You learn something every day, I guess

 

[Chilly Willy]

Chilly Willy,
Wow, I didn't know that. Thanks for the reply. You learn something every day, I guess

You're welcome. I think the prosecution failed when they didn't make that clearer to the jury during the trial. At least one juror has said that the lack of DNA in the stain was a consideration in their verdict.

 

[eve80]

You're welcome. I think the prosecution failed when they didn't make that clearer to the jury during the trial. At least one juror has said that the lack of DNA in the stain was a consideration in their verdict.

You are right. I give them a lot of credit and I have a lot of respect for them but I agree with the jurors who said that the prosecution left them wanting more info. There were many things that were not brought up at trial...

Do you agree with the fact the the charge was too strong? I mean the story that she wanted to get rid of Caylee because of her wanting to live a "happily ever after with Tony" was not true? I mean she was already on the phone flirting with Chris W. (or was his name Will?). She just met him a month before. With all the flings she had, I don't think she knew Tony was the "one and only".

 

[Chilly Willy]

You are right. I give them a lot of credit and I have a lot of respect for them but I agree with the jurors who said that the prosecution left them wanting more info. There were many things that were not brought up at trial...

Do you agree with the fact the the charge was too strong? I mean the story that she wanted to get rid of Caylee because of her wanting to live a "happily ever after with Tony" was not true? I mean she was already on the phone flirting with Chris W. (or was his name Will?). She just met him a month before. With all the flings she had, I don't think she knew Tony was the "one and only".

No, I don't think the state overcharged at all. In Florida, abuse against a child resulting in death supports a charge of first degree murder. There is no crime more horrendous than a mother killing her own helpless and trusting child. I believe the problem in this case is that the jury expected too much. They wanted a smoking gun, something that rarely exists in murder cases. For whatever reason, this jury was unable to put 2 and 2 together and get 4. I don't understand why, the jury in the Scott Peterson case was able to do it and they had much less to work with.

I don't believe the prosecution presented the theory that Casey was hoping for happily ever after with Tony and that Caylee was in the way. I think the motive was more along the lines of Caylee being an obstacle to Casey's freedom. I also believe there was also some anger at Cindy involved - Casey wanted to hurt her mother and she did it by murdering the person Cindy cared most about in the world. I also think Casey resented Caylee for taking over the role of princess in the family, that was Casey's place.

I don't think the jury had a true picture of who Casey is, it's hard to accept that any mother could be so cold and heartless as to kill her own child without batting an eye, yet that is exactly what Casey did. She even carted around the baby's decomposing body and eventually lifted it out of the car and carried it into the woods. That's something no normal mother could do without losing her mind, but it didn't faze Casey in the least.

 

[LambChop]

You are right. I give them a lot of credit and I have a lot of respect for them but I agree with the jurors who said that the prosecution left them wanting more info. There were many things that were not brought up at trial...

Do you agree with the fact the the charge was too strong? I mean the story that she wanted to get rid of Caylee because of her wanting to live a "happily ever after with Tony" was not true? I mean she was already on the phone flirting with Chris W. (or was his name Will?). She just met him a month before. With all the flings she had, I don't think she knew Tony was the "one and only".

There were other lesser charges listed, the jury did not have to chose death and if they read the jury instructions they would have understood that. According to the juror's who spoke with the media they wanted a timeframe and motive. JB confirmed that Caylee died on June 16th in his opening statement which is the one and only time the jury disregarded what was said in the OS. Motive, oldest one in book, she wanted to be free. If you are married and suddenly are fed up with your responsibilities within the household you can get a divorce. It's not so easy when you have a child. LDB laid out the motive during those 31 days during which time KC was clearly not mourning the death of her child but actively seeking and enjoying the beautiful life.

And KC's tattoo reads "Beautiful Life" not beautiful life with Tony. Did she regret what she did, maybe, but if the diary entry they found dated June 21st was written in 2008......i doubt it. "I hope the end justifies the means". lol

jmo

 

[LambChop]

One thing that did surprise me is that SA never brought in a witness to testify that mothers who kill their children usually wrap them in a blanket and place them in or near water. jmo

 

[eve80]

Chilly Willy,

I guess you are right. I guess as much as I dislike her (trying hard not to use a stronger word), somehow I naively look for something "human" in her, and the more I read and research, the harder it is to find that humanity. As all of you here, I can't cope with the results of it all, and maybe I'm just trying too hard to justify the verdict.