Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #3

[papertrail]

RSBM&BBM ^ I captured that that screen shot from the CIA video so it's just the same video available to all. Just a lot of pausing the video to get a clearer frame then I think I may have sharpened that particular capture a little in Gimp.

Damned good job there Enzeder ! Have you attempted to see if you can get a clearer view of the inside Conti frame?

I see at the 47sec mark there is a shot of what appears to be an ice vending machine. Can anyone say if that was at the rear of the Conti?

Is anyone able to supply a drawing outline of the Conti building with points of interest eg exit doors, toilet location, bars and the like.

I'm working on a video date stamp / timeline comparison between 1.08 video and a full copy; think I may have picked up a couple of interesting points and will post tomorrow after double checking accuracy. From what I've got currently it seems the inside Conti frame might well be captured just after midnight (literally)

I am certain it is Jane (inside Conti); she is wearing long sleeves and has what appears (to me) to be a watch on her right wrist and I can also see the dark jacket over her right arm (as she held it when outside). Hair is the same; off her face and same length.

Is the person standing on the steps male or female?

I am also certain the guy we believe (well most of us do) is MM with Jane inside the Conti is holding a brick mobile phone.

 

[papertrail]

the door that is the point of interest in the CIA video, was that the only entrance and exit door?

 

[Bartholemeus]

the door that is the point of interest in the CIA video, was that the only entrance and exit door?

Didn't you say you were local?

 

[Bartholemeus]

There were numerous doors but I can't accurately place which ones were in use at what time.

The main door to down stairs was right on the corner. The door to upstairs was the one you see in the footage which is the most southern point of the facade. I believe in the late 80s when this establishment was called Cagney's that there was a wall blocking off the stairs. So you couldn't access downstairs through the main entrance (most southern point of the facade) and you couldn't access upstairs from the bar downstairs (I'm a bit hazy on this but reasonably sure).

The ice machine was directly behind the back wall. There was a drive through bottle shop here.

I will make a map.

 

[billywhizz]

Does anyone recall an article about a woman that matched JR's description seen getting into/out of a car (Commodore) near Gt Eastern Hwy on same night of disappearance?

Apparently everything checked out with this person/story but the driver was from Gidgegannup.

Does this ring any bells at all? I'm certain I've read it in the past month or so in one of the articles posted on here.

Could also be getting it confused with Sarah McMahon.

Please let me know if anyone recalls reading this, thanks.

 

[Bartholemeus]

This is very amateur and based on memory from 20-25 years ago. Should give you an idea though;

 

[Bartholemeus]

I believe that main entrance on the right was closed by 1996 (on thurs, fri, sat nights) and only the entrance that goes to the stairs was used. So one entrance basically.

 

[Bartholemeus]

I am certain it is Jane (inside Conti); she is wearing long sleeves and has what appears (to me) to be a watch on her right wrist and I can also see the dark jacket over her right arm (as she held it when outside). Hair is the same; off her face and same length.

Do you really think that girl is wearing long sleeves (inside Conti)?

Is that a jacket over her right arm, or the brick like mobile phone that MM is holding? Because you're have a bet both ways.

If that's JR then why do you suppose police said the last time she was seen was outside? Or why do you think they failed to mention she went inside?

 

[Sutton]

Does anyone recall an article about a woman that matched JR's description seen getting into/out of a car (Commodore) near Gt Eastern Hwy on same night of disappearance?

Apparently everything checked out with this person/story but the driver was from Gidgegannup.

Does this ring any bells at all? I'm certain I've read it in the past month or so in one of the articles posted on here.

Could also be getting it confused with Sarah McMahon.

Please let me know if anyone recalls reading this, thanks.

The article attached in this post mentions a woman hitchhiker seen getting into a Commodore near the Mitchell Freeway on-ramp.

The driver is described as a Gnangara man. This is the only similar event I've read.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12141731

 

[bessie]

:seeya: I've opened a media thread for CSK.

Claremont Serial Killer: Media, Timelines, Photos *NO-DISCUSSION*



Use this thread to post snips from articles, maps, timelines, and images. *Remember to include links to appropriate sources.*

Also, it is a "non-discussion" thread. Comments will be removed.

The thread is a sticky, so will always be near the top of the main Serial Killer forum page. I'll also add it to the opening post. When I have time, I will copy over some links from previous posts. In the meantime, please feel free to start filling it in.

 

[catswhiskers]

Bessie is it ok for "images" of old newspaper clippings (not available online or able to be linked as such) to be posted there too?

 

[bessie]

Bessie is it ok for "images" of old newspaper clippings (not available online or able to be linked as such) to be posted there too?

No. I have allowed a snip of a map and victims' photos, but that's an exception. If the images are hosted externally (e.g., google drive, photobucket), a link can be posted. If anyone has questions, please send them to me in a pm.

ETA: Thanks for the question, catswhiskers. It's a good one. :thumb:

 

[papertrail]

This is very amateur and based on memory from 20-25 years ago. Should give you an idea though;

Excellent and great job thankyou. 1.08 video shows the ice machine and a large glass door; I assume this would have been a fire exit door (maybe) they would have had to have had a fire exit other than the front door that is the door of interest in the CIA doc.

 

[papertrail]

Didn't you say you were local?

I certainly did say I was a 'local'. Lived in properties I owned in Cottesloe, North Freo, Scarborough. Just because I said I was local didn't mean I was saying I lived in Gugeri St or Bay View. Never went to any of the pubs or clubs or restaurants in that area as it wasn't my thing and I certainly never shopped in the area. Just used to drive through. I used to hangout at Subi and Freo; never went to nightclubs, just restaurants and occasionally pubs with friends.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Excellent and great job thankyou. 1.08 video shows the ice machine and a large glass door; I assume this would have been a fire exit door (maybe) they would have had to have had a fire exit other than the front door that is the door of interest in the CIA doc.

I don't recall a fire door at the back of the building. 95% sure there wasn't one near the men's toilets. From memory there wasn't a urinal and just 2 toilets. Another room just had a basin so that made 3 toilets (yup - when it was jam packed with 18-20 year olds you just waited in line for first available - either one of two toilets or the sink).

Not sure what was going behind the girl's toilets and whether the staff area extended to the back and a fire door. I would have walked past the drive thru on Gugeri St on hundreds of occasions and never noticed a fire door. There's doors going onto Gugeri St verandah that are open during the day and I assume because of the many exit point they don't require a fire door at the rear.

Just had a look on Google Maps - drive thru bottle shop still there. I can't see a fire door but it looks like there is access to the bottle shop from the hotel (it's not public access though). It would go from their kitchen or staff room or office etc

 

[papertrail]

Do you really think that girl is wearing long sleeves (inside Conti)?

Is that a jacket over her right arm, or the brick like mobile phone that MM is holding? Because you're have a bet both ways. QUOTE

If that's JR then why do you suppose police said the last time she was seen was outside? Or why do you think they failed to mention she went inside?

Do you really think that girl is wearing long sleeves (inside Conti)? Yes. Look very carefully at her left arm near the wrist. you will see where the sleeve of the long sleeved shirt ends and her wrist shows.

Is that a jacket over her right arm, or the brick like mobile phone that MM is holding? Because you're have a bet both ways. The phone is being held by the guy. The black object over the woman's right arm is in a different zone or area; they are distinctly different. Later today I'll post a screen shot with detail included.

If that's JR then why do you suppose police said the last time she was seen was outside? Or why do you think they failed to mention she went inside?

Because the last time she was seen was outside; it's that simple. They 'failed to mention she had been back inside' because the whole point of the CIA doc was to ID the last person seen with JR outside the Conti; it's that simple again. I'm still cross checking the CIA timeline data however I am positive the date stamp on the inside frame will be just after midnight.

One of the strange things, is the police didn't include in the CIA doc, the footage of Jane and her friends returning to the Conti area. They included footage of them exiting the Conti, mulling around a pole and chatting to a guy who was positioned on the other side of the pole (conveniently out of view from CCTV footage); then you see the girls walking south along Bay View towards the nightclub. The next footage is when Jane is standing next to a pole that is north of the pole she last stood at and then she moved out about 2 metres onto Bay View and looked intently at Gugeri direction. I am hoping to be able to post the timeline stuff later today and it will include screen shots of both the CIA full doc and the 1.08 footage so comparisons can be seen and I believe shows an anomaly with the footage time stamping. In fact it makes me consider the time stamping may not be the original timestamping.

 

[papertrail]

a fire exit door can look like any other door, they normally have a bar handle apparatus that gets pushed downwards to exit. They cannot be opened from the outside but people can exit from the inside; in saying they can't be opened from the outside, they can be manipulated to open and then manipulated to only open from the inside. They would also open outwards. The owners would have been required by law to have another exit door for patrons to use in case of an emergency evacuation procedure was put into place.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Do you really think that girl is wearing long sleeves (inside Conti)?

Yes. Look very carefully at her left arm near the wrist. you will see where the sleeve of the long sleeved shirt ends and her wrist shows.

I'm afraid you're seeing something that isn't there.

 

[Bartholemeus]

a fire exit door can look like any other door, they normally have a bar handle apparatus that gets pushed downwards to exit. They cannot be opened from the outside but people can exit from the inside; in saying they can't be opened from the outside, they can be manipulated to open and then manipulated to only open from the inside. They would also open outwards. The owners would have been required by law to have another exit door for patrons to use in case of an emergency evacuation procedure was put into place.

If you look at the ice machine the is a set of stairs above it. This is not at the immediate rear at the front of the drive thru. This has to be at the back of the drive thru. They are probably fire stairs that go out to the lane way.

 

[Bartholemeus]

The phone is being held by the guy. The black object over the woman's right arm is in a different zone or area; they are distinctly different. Later today I'll post a screen shot with detail included.

This is what I see:



Just as I couldn't fathom how you saw a pedestrian underpass in 1995 Landgate maps, I can't fathom how you can see a a long sleeve shirt and a black jacket. It wouldn't be the first time you have misinterpreted because it fits your story.