Clifford Lane Lawless

[Kat]

I can't say that I know a lot about Preachers but my Grandfather was a Preacher and he traveled before he got his own congregation.

 

[chicagofa13]

Posted on the wrong thread. I'll go find the post I was responding to:

" Originally Posted by scandi View Post
thanks Groovytown, That is very interesting as we have only heard of Connie referred to as his wife up to this point! WOW That puts a whole different tone on the pastor for me as to the possibilities . . . . . . . xox

I think this is going to cause some confusion, I know what post you are talking about!

Pastor Harris is Connie L's brother. Pastor Lawless and Connie are the husband/wife.

 

[TripleA]

I agree that those are not "aliases" in the criminal connotation, they are misspellings that are picked up and listed by creditors, utility companies, etc. My list looks like that as well because many times I use my first and middle initials with my last name instead of my whole name. My first and middle initials are A.L. which people misconstrue as a man's name "Al", which then links me to many people who are related to an "Al" with my same last name. lol

 

[SeekingJana]

Here's his Bio....

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/Pastor1.html

Pastor Lane Lawless was saved in Wenatchee, Washington, In April of 1960. He was baptized July 9, 1960 by the authority of the Eastside Missionary Baptist Church of East Wenatchee. Elder A.A. Harris administered the ordinance. He was called to the ministry on April 6, 1971 and ordained August 20, 1971 by the Winton MBC.

Pastor Lawless received his theological education from the Alisal Baptist Institute of Salinas and the Baptist Theological Seminary of Hayward. He also studied under the tutelage of Eld. A.A. Harris.

The churches Elder Lawless has pastored are Beacon MBC of Redding and Grace MBC of Gardena. In 1975, he was sent out by Salinas MBC to do mission work in Eureka. He then pastured Sovereign Grace MBC of Mountain View, and has been pastor at the Clover Road Baptist Church since 1981.

Pastor Lawless' wife, Connie, is the daughter of A.A. and Irene Harris. They were married by Eld. Harris on July 9, 1960 in Modesto, CA. They have three grown children Brian, Brett, and Joni, who are all involved in God's work, and nine beloved grandchildren.

Bolded added by me.
Hmm. Unusual amount of detail about the Harris family involvement with pastor Lawless, who probably wouldn't BE a Baptist pastor if not for his courting Harris's daughter.
He was apparently dating Connie Harris, a Baptist minister's daughter, and was baptized into their Baptist faith the day of their wedding.
He was baptized by his father in law, who also married them, and who also appears to have been the prime source of whatever theological study this man has had.
Maybe this is the way some faiths operate, but it looks like this guy may have ridden Harris's coattails into a job as a pastor.

I would like to know what he was doing prior to 1960, and like someone else said, if there are old unsolved child disappearances or murders with a similar M. O. in his former areas of residence. ( 5 mile radius, not entire city) for every year of his adult life.

I read a statement tonight from the FBI which says this was a " disorganized" crime, that not much intelligence was shown.
I'm not sure if they are referring to the matter of the suitcase's previous owner, the method/ cause of death, the proximity to a primary crime scene, multiple factors, or what.

Does anyone know why this particular irrigation/ drainage pond happened to be drained when it was? I can't find a statement that LE asked for it to be drained. The news reports make it sound like the pond was drained and the suitcase with Sandra's body was found incidentally. Is this correct?

If so, I wonder who owns the land where the pond is located and why they chose to drain the pond at that time, if declared to be incidental.

 

[Kat]

http://www.thecalifornian.com/article/20090408/NEWS01/904080301

April 8, 2009 ( 2 page article)

Snipped:

...According to Lawless, he lived in Salinas in the early 1980s, and now lives in Space 57 at Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park ...

...Lawless said he lived in Salinas for about a year while receiving his theological education from the Alisal Baptist Institute Theological Seminary. Lawless said he also lived in Livermore and made the one-and-a-half hour commute to Salinas when he taught and preached at the institute...

...Pastor Arthur Harris of the Alisal Baptist Church said the institute is still around but hasn't had any students or staff for a couple of years.

Harris, now the dean of the institute, described the institute as more of a Bible school as opposed to a liberal arts department. Harris confirmed Lawless received a bachelor's degree in religious studies at the institute.

 

[LinasK]

Does anyone know why this particular irrigation/ drainage pond happened to be drained when it was? I can't find a statement that LE asked for it to be drained. The news reports make it sound like the pond was drained and the suitcase with Sandra's body was found incidentally. Is this correct?

If so, I wonder who owns the land where the pond is located and why they chose to drain the pond at that time, if declared to be incidental.

Yes, it was reported to be an irrigation pond on a dairy farm owned by Ann Silva, scheduled to be drained. Had been previously searched by LE two weeks prior...

 

[TripleA]

My BIL's father is a Methodist minister and he has been moved at least five times since I met him in 1994.

http://www.ellisonresearch.com/ERPS II/release_18_jobs.htm

Study shows why Protestant clergy change jobs

(Original release date: September 7, 2005) Research results being released for the first time in the September/October edition of Facts & Trends magazine show that it’s more common for a pastor to take a job at a different church due to getting a promotion than it is for a pastor to move to a new church because of feeling God’s call or leading.

The study, conducted by Ellison Research (Phoenix, Ariz.) among a representative sample of 872 Protestant church ministers nationwide, explored the job situations of ministers in the United States.

The average American minister has held a paid job in ministry for 19 years, and has spent an average of 15.6 of those years as a senior pastor of one or more churches. The average minister has been the senior pastor of his or her current church for 7.7 years.

Ministers at larger churches tended to have a longer tenure – an average of 8.7 years in their current position, compared to 7.2 years among small churches.

The typical minister has been the senior pastor at three different churches during his/her career. Thirty-one percent are in their first position as a senior pastor, 24% have pastored two churches, 16% have been with three churches, and 29% have been with four or more churches.

Among pastors who are part of a denomination, 19% are assigned to positions by their denomination, while 81% are free to choose their own job. Denominational assignments are most prevalent within the Methodist tradition, although not exclusive to Methodist churches.

Being assigned to jobs has a strong influence on how long pastors stay in one position. The average length of time with their current church is 8.2 years among those who are free to select their own job, but only 4.9 years among those who are assigned to a church.

 

[Kat]

http://www.graceredondo.com/history.html

Grace Missionary Baptist

Pastors:

Lane Lawless 1973-1974

 

[SeekingJana]

Lina's K, do you believe the pond was drained " incidentally"? I'm wondering if the FBI suggested it.. Again, going to the comment today that this was a " disorganized crime".
I believe they have a good psych. profile of the killer to release that info.

Any known connection between Ann Silva and the Lawless family or Sandra's family?

 

[LinasK]

Lina's K, do you believe the pond was drained " incidentally"? I'm wondering if the FBI suggested it.. Again, going to the comment today that this was a " disorganized crime".
I believe they have a good psych. profile of the killer to release that info.

Any known connection between Ann Silva and the Lawless family or Sandra's family?

No, from what I read, it was routine for these ponds to be drained every two-three weeks. Something about mixing up fertilizer chemicals. I still don't even know the name of the dairy.
But... I know somebody who has two sisters that live in Tracy, and she thinks the perp wanted Sandra to be found.

 

[SeekingJana]

The Baptists ( at least main stream Baptists) work off a different system. They say a pastor is " called to serve" at their church by God. Then he gets " called" to go elsewhere by God in a few years, usually ( and usually for a lot more money at a larger church, nicer parsonage, benefits, etc).

Under this system, the resident pastor either retires, goes to mission work, or more likely, goes on to a larger ( better paying) church.
Then a volunteer nominating committee is chosen from a group of active church members who start looking for a new pastor. They go visit churches unannounced and " scope out" the preacher. Usually they have a list of candidates for the vacant job before hand.

The person "chosen" to " serve" is usually chosen based upon the fact that he will relocate to the area, likes the perks with the job, and accepts the salary.

I know this because both of my parents were on nominating committees for their large Baptist church all the years I lived in their home.

 

[FishingFunnyFrog]

I think this is going to cause some confusion, I know what post you are talking about!

Pastor Harris is Connie L's brother. Pastor Lawless and Connie are the husband/wife.

And Connie's son-in-law is also a pastor! :crazy:

 

[scandi]

I think this is going to cause some confusion, I know what post you are talking about!

Pastor Harris is Connie L's brother. Pastor Lawless and Connie are the husband/wife.

Yea, I wish I had a big red faced Smilie right now. LOL Can't believe I missed the name Harris, but didn't even know that the pastor's wife had a brother who is a pastor too! :crazy: lol

 

[smart blonde]

While searching for info on the preacher I found he purchased his current MH back in Nov of 1992. (Per netdetective). I think the alias's appear because he uses his middle name rather than his first name.

jmo

I think they are misspellings and use of middle initial and middle name more so than any alias. Anytime your name is misspelled or you use just a middle initial and it gets attached to your SSN it will follow you around. This man uses his middle name as a first name (quite common), which also creates variations.

I have seen a few variations on my name, and trust me, I'm not using an alias!

I agree with the above explanations.

I think too much is being made of his 'alias''...
As an example, my father passed away a year ago at age 70.
He had, from birth, been called by his middle name...

Believe me... this is a VERY common problem for people who 'go by' their middle names.

 

[elepher50]

Fellow sleuthers: Do any of you know what L Lawless was doing for a living prior to being saved and baptized in 1960?
Assuming his birthdate is 1932, he was around 28 years old when he was ordained.
He started at the Clover Baptist Church in 1981, do we have any idea where he was between 1971 and 1981?

My apologies if the answers are already in this thread somewhere .....

 

[gibby207]

Fellow sleuthers: Do any of you know what L Lawless was doing for a living prior to being saved and baptized in 1960?
Assuming his birthdate is 1932, he was around 28 years old when he was ordained.
He started at the Clover Baptist Church in 1981, do we have any idea where he was between 1971 and 1981?

My apologies if the answers are already in this thread somewhere .....

Thank you for having this thread and bringing up these points! It seems on the discussion thread no one wanted to talk about this man.....

Elepher...I have been searching and searching, and nothing seems to come up for him until California, although it said in his bio that he was "saved" in Wenatchee, WA. So, being from WA, I started sleuthing. It got me nowhere. I'm thinking another alias based on what I've seen so far. I searched under the man who baptized him, and he's from Omak, WA, and he has more than 1 alias as well. Now, I didn't want to bring this up before tonight, but I will tell you why the town Wenatchee made my ears perk up:

http://www.seattlepi.com/powertoharm/

Research the Wenatchee sex ring and you will see. Pertinent is that once sexual allegations were made, there was a snowball effect, but one would have to imagine that there was sexual misconduct in Wenatchee. It is stated that sex offenders in Wenatchee outnumber citizens 764 to 1. I'm heavily looking into this Tracy 60, if you get what I'm saying. I'm not implicating anyone here, but the word "Wenatchee" and the fact that I can't trace him there makes me uber suspicious.

 

[Kat]

C. L. Lawless

Born 1932 (?)
Was saved in April 1960 Wenatchee, Washington.
Married on July 9, 1960 in Modesto, CA
Called to the ministry on April 6, 1971
Ordained August 20, 1971
Pastor of Grace Missionary Baptist 1973-1974
In 1975, he was sent out by Salinas MBC to do mission work in Eureka CA
According to Lawless, he lived in Salinas CA in the early 1980s
Pastor at the Clover Road Baptist Church since 1981


That's all I have so far Elepher50.

 

[SeekingJana]

Fellow sleuthers: Do any of you know what L Lawless was doing for a living prior to being saved and baptized in 1960?
Assuming his birthdate is 1932, he was around 28 years old when he was ordained.
He started at the Clover Baptist Church in 1981, do we have any idea where he was between 1971 and 1981?

My apologies if the answers are already in this thread somewhere .....

Some of the answers are in his bio:
"He was called to the ministry on April 6, 1971 and ordained August 20, 1971 by the Winton MBC. "

Note- I assume this means that Lawless was ordained at the Winton Missionary Baptist Church in a ceremony type thing of laying on of hands, etc, but no dates are given regarding the following churches:

"The churches Elder Lawless has pastored are Beacon MBC of Redding and Grace MBC of Gardena. In 1975, he was sent out by Salinas MBC to do mission work in Eureka. He then pastured Sovereign Grace MBC of Mountain View, and has been pastor at the Clover Road Baptist Church since 1981."

Places and dates would be:

1) Beacon Missionary Baptist Church in Redding, CA in the early 70's ( 1971- pre-1975)
2) Then he went to Grace Missionary Baptist Church in Gardenia, CA, also prior to 1975.

3) In 1975, he served as a local field missionary in Eureka, CA, out of a Salinas CA, Baptist Church. Length of time in the mission field unspecified. He probably did some traveling in the Salinas CA- Eureka, CA area ( 1975- to ?).

4) After the mission work but prior to 1981, he was the pastor at the Mountain View, CA church of Sovereign Grace Missionary Baptist Church.

5) Current church/ location 1981- 2009.

 

[wfgodot]

I agree with the above explanations.

I think too much is being made of his 'alias''...
As an example, my father passed away a year ago at age 70.
He had, from birth, been called by his middle name...

Believe me... this is a VERY common problem for people who 'go by' their middle names.

Exactly. There are no aliases there. They're all either misspellings, or typos, or listing him by his given-middle, instead of his given, name. An "alias" almost always involves someone changing his or her surname. As for the moves, those are normal for a pastor.

It is quite risky to believe internet identity-searches; for example, I'm listed on one as having SEVEN different addresses in a town in which I lived a year, and at which I had one address.

 

[SeekingJana]

Thank you for having this thread and bringing up these points! It seems on the discussion thread no one wanted to talk about this man.....

Elepher...I have been searching and searching, and nothing seems to come up for him until California, although it said in his bio that he was "saved" in Wenatchee, WA. So, being from WA, I started sleuthing. It got me nowhere. I'm thinking another alias based on what I've seen so far. I searched under the man who baptized him, and he's from Omak, WA, and he has more than 1 alias as well. Now, I didn't want to bring this up before tonight, but I will tell you why the town Wenatchee made my ears perk up:

http://www.seattlepi.com/powertoharm/

Research the Wenatchee sex ring and you will see. Pertinent is that once sexual allegations were made, there was a snowball effect, but one would have to imagine that there was sexual misconduct in Wenatchee. It is stated that sex offenders in Wenatchee outnumber citizens 764 to 1. I'm heavily looking into this Tracy 60, if you get what I'm saying. I'm not implicating anyone here, but the word "Wenatchee" and the fact that I can't trace him there makes me uber suspicious.

Great research . Holy cow!!!