Identified! CO - Boulder Co., WhtFem 'Boulder Jane Doe, 17-20, Mar'54 - Dorothy Howard

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Ok I'm really confused.

I went to the message board on your site, and I see that Talelights has already suggested Connie Smith. There appears to have been 2 dentists who both say it isn't her, but then the records of these reports are currently lost? Also are Connie's remains lost? Is there DNA for Connie?

Your first post, on this thread, says that DNA ruled out two potential matches. So that means you have DNA for the Boulder Jane Doe, correct?
 
PonderingThings said:
Ok I'm really confused.

I went to the message board on your site, and I see that Talelights has already suggested Connie Smith. There appears to have been 2 dentists who both say it isn't her, but then the records of these reports are currently lost? Also are Connie's remains lost? Is there DNA for Connie?

Your first post, on this thread, says that DNA ruled out two potential matches. So that means you have DNA for the Boulder Jane Doe, correct?
Click to expand...
Connie Smith has never been located.
 
Thanks Shadow Angel! I told you I was confused!!!
bang.gif


Of course Connie Smith's remains aren't lost as she's never been found! ...then what is lost? Her dental records?

Or is the Boulder Jane Doe's remains lost?

I'm having a problems....
doh.gif
 
Silvia said:
This thread ("Unidentified girl, Boulder CO, 8 April 1954") is being continued under Boulder Jane Doe. It just makes more sense and is easier to find in searches. Thanks to all for your continued interest and support. For more detail on this case see www.boulderjanedoe.com.
Click to expand...
I'm not married to the origional title and have no objection to the change. The old title was chosen to describe the type of case, place and date. It got 1,350 hits in 15 months. Maybe the new one will get more interest generated. The case is a fascinating one.
 
You may be confusing two seperate cases...

The remains of a young girl were found in the AZ desert in 1958. Dubbed "Little Miss X", the girl's teeth were checked against the dental records of Connie, which were provided by the family dentist. At first it was stated the teeth matched, but this was later changed. Talelights is still attempting to discover the truth of the thing--Little Miss X's remains have gone missing. (A treveling salesman by the name Frederick Pope had stated he and a partner had picked up Connie in New England and drove her to AZ where they killed her. Though Pope's story was discounted due to his history of mental health problems, it is intriguing in light of the discovery of Little Miss X. However, Talelights has assured me there is additional evidence to rule her out as a match to Connie).

Pretty much any girl who went missing during the early '50s has, at one time or another, been suggested as a possible match for Boulder Jane Doe. I even forwarded a few possible matches myself.
 
Ahhhhh THANK YOU!

I think I get it now... Little Miss X is a totally different Jane Doe than the Boulder Jane Doe! They are being mentioned because both Jane Doe's are/have been compared to Connie.

You have NO idea how confusing all of this was!
 
PonderingThings said:
[font=arial,verdana,geneva,lucida][size=-1]http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1727dfwi.html[/size][/font]
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/433UFCO.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/CoSmith.jpg
Jane Doe on left, Connie on right

Connie Smith
Missing since July 16, 1952 from U.S. Route 44 in Salisbury, Litchfield County, Connecticut.
Classification: Missing

***********************
Possible match?:

****To me this is almost a "perfect" match... its only the 2 year delay between her disappearance and the time she would have been found dead. Could someone have kept her all that time? I think its possible.
Click to expand...
They may look similiar and I really wish it was so. But on November 9, 2005 authorities in Connecticut confirmed that Connie Smith is not Boulder Jane Doe. Dental records do not match.
 
I know this is confusing, but I really appreciate your interest. Yes, we have DNA from Boulder Jane Doe. It has been done twice, at two different labs. One lab did a nuclear DNA profile from her leg bone, another did a mitochrondrial DNA profile from one of her teeth. The DNA in itself does not tell us anything, but it is a baseline for comparison with families of missing young women. DNA has ruled out Marion Joan McDowell and Twylia May Embrey. Connie Smith has also been ruled out, but that was done with dental records. (Connie had fillings in her teeth; Boulder Jane Doe did not.) Just yesterday, however, Frank Bender, the sculptor who did Jane's facial reconstruction, was quoted in the North Platte (NE) Telegraph as saying that despite the DNA, he still thinks Jane is Twylia. (See 1/28/06 article posted on www.boulderjanedoe.com.)
 
The case of the missing Twylia May Embrey and the the unidentified Boulder Jane Doe have been intertwined for more than a year. For many months, Twylia was considered a good candidate for Boulder Jane Doe, but two different DNA profiles have ruled her out. However, Frank Bender, the sculptor who did Boulder Jane Doe's facial reconstruction, still believes Jane is Twylia. See the article in the 1/28/06 North Platte (NE) Telegraph, posted under "articles" on www.boulderjanedoe.com. And also see the thread on "Boulder Jane Doe," a continuation of the one on "Unidentified girl, Boulder CO, 8 April 1954."
 
What is the status of the DNA testing which was mentioned in earlier posts and newspaper articles? Was significant DNA material obtained, and have any conclusions been reached?
 
Two DNA profiles have been done on Boulder Jane Doe. The first was nuclear and was taken from her leg bone. The second was mitochrondrial and was taken from her tooth. The second one was done under more controlled conditions and is considered more accurate. Neither, in themselves, however, tell us anything. They are a baseline profile to match to the DNA of a possible relative who we hope will come forward. It's interesting, however, that even with both DNA profiles ruling out Twylia May Embrey, just yesterday Frank Bender (who sculpted BJD's facial reconstruction) was quote by the North Platte Telegraph that he STILL believes Twylia is BJD. You can read this article on www.boulderjanedoe.com.
 
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1880dftx.html

433UFCO.jpg
VCarpenter.jpg


Virginia Carpenter

Lots of problems with this match... but... with an open mind:
1. Virginia had brown hair. If the observation that another person on another thread said holds true, that dyes at the time would turn brown hair blond with a reddish ting, could this be Virginia with dyed hair?

2. Virginia would have been 27 yrs old in 1954, which is way past the 17-20 age estimate for Jane Doe.

3. Virginia is thought to have perished in 1948, when she disappeared. There was even some talk that she might have known the identity of a killer that killed 3 people her family knew. What if she went into hiding. Dyed her hair, moved to Colorado.... only to have the killer find her?

Again... just putting it out there because its available... I still believe Jane Doe is Connie.
wink.gif
 
Silvia,

Strontium Isotope Analysis can be used in helping to identify the area a person came from if teeth from the victim are available.

Because dentition forms during childhood, the strontium found in tooth enamel will generally reflect where that individual was born and raised. In contrast, bones continue to absorb strontium, and can reveal where that individual spent the last years of his or her life. If the two differ, researchers can suggest that a person spent their childhood in one locale and migrated (or were taken) to another region later in life.

This may be something you could look into. At present it is most commonly used in archeological digs. I don’t know if it has ever been used in a cold case but I think the possibilities are phenomenal. I would love to see this used in connection with cold cases of unidentified persons.

I have 2 emails out at present asking these questions:
  1. Do you have a Strontium Isotope database and if so, what regional areas are maintained in the database?
    [*]Do you know of other Strontium Isotope databases being maintained at other Universities?
    [*]Are you excepting identified human data sources at this time to add to your database?
    [*]Do you except private samples for Strontium Isotope Analysis?
    [*]What is the cost to have a private sample tested?
If and when I receive replys I will certainly post them for you here.






 
Silvia, do you know if Evelyn Hartley was ever checked as a match?​



101799.jpg

Evelyn Hartley​
​

Missing since October 24, 1953, from La Crosse, Wisconsin​

  • Date Of Birth
  • : November 21, 1937
    [*]Age at Time of Disappearance    : 15 years old
    [*]Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance    : 5'7"; 126 lbs.
    [*]Distinguishing Characteristics    : White female. Blue eyes; brown, straight hair. Hartley wears eyeglasses, but did not have them on when she disappeared.
    [*]Clothing    : She was last seen wearing size 16 red denim White Stag jeans, a size 34 plain white Ship n' Shore blouse, and white bobby socks.
There are other pics of her with longer hair on the Doe Network.​
 
I definitely would like to know more about strontium isotope analysis. Thanks for any info you can supply. As for Evelyn Hartley, I just don't think she's a match. Boulder Jane Doe was very slender and overall quite a bit smaller than Evelyn. And BJD's hair was curly while Evelyn's was straight. Neither law-enforcement agencies in CO or in WI felt there was enough in common to do a DNA comparison.
 
Silvia, I received responses to both my emails today with this information. Here are their responses.

Response #1
It has the potential to work well. It gets more complicated for recent
remains because so much of our dietary intake doesn't come from local
sources.
  1. Do you have a Strontium Isotope database at The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and if so, what regional areas are maintained in the database?
    Not as such. We have many analyses, but they belong to the individual investigators who have paid for them. Most are published fairly rapidly, so they could be mined from the literature. The bulk of our work is from ancient European and Middle Eastern individuals. We have only recently been involved in modern forensic cases and those results are confidential.
  2. Do you know of other Strontium Isotope databases being maintained at other Universities?
    I do not. However, if I was looking for such a thing, I would begin with Doug Price at Wisconsin.
  3. Are you excepting identified human data sources at this time to add to your database?
    We're happy to do analyses.
  4. Do you except private samples for Strontium Isotope Analysis?
    Absolutely. We can make recommendations about what to analyze the more we know about the question to be answered.
  5. What is the cost to have a private sample tested?
    $75 a sample assuming we do all the work.

    Please let me know if you need any additional information.
Response #2

Dear Ms. Smith,
Thanks for your interest in strontium isotope analysis. Unfortunately,
it is not always very helpful for modern populations. This is because
the strontium isotope signature in human bones and tooth enamel comes
from the food you eat. If you eat food from the region where you were
living, you will have the local geologic strontium isotope signature in
your bones and teeth. However, most people now eat foods that were grown
in a wide variety of geologic regions, so their strontium isotope
signatures are a mixture of many different regions and can't be used to
track mobility or movement between different geologic zones.

We don't have a strontium isotope database though we are looking into setting one up at ASU in the next couple of years. Labs charge $200-500 per sample for strontium isotope analysis. The geologic literature in the United States would be the place to look for regional strontium isotope signatures. I
work mostly in South America, so I don't know as much about the
signatures in the United States.

Hope this helps!


 
Thanks for your information on isotopes. Since I'm in the Denver CO area, I've contacted someone locally who seems knowlegeable on this, too. But it appears that the science is so new, that no one is really sure how it can be applied. It's interesting about the foods people eat and how today's foods are from everywhere (just bought some apples from New Zealand!). However, in researching Boulder Jane Doe who was murdered in 1954, the isotope analysis just might be helpful. For instance, a farm girl from Nebraska would have a different diet from someone from New York City. I really appreciate your help and look forward to any more responses that you might receive.
 
I agree, this technology applied to cases prior to the early '60s may prove extremely helpful. As I stated on the "Mr Bones" thread (unidentified remains from '58), foods would be more "regional" from that era and earlier. Yaya did an amazing job researching and following up on this.

Silvia-I have done some digging on the three girls I had suggested on the original thread...I can't find anything to suggest they were ever found or returned. Donna Hriesik seems a good lead.
 
I want to thank everyone who is following this thread and invite you to look at www.boulderjanedoe.com. The website includes all of the articles (since 1954) on Boulder Jane Doe, as well as the progress we've made on the case. An active message board is there, as well. And I'll be happy to answer any questions. We still don't know the date of the upcoming "America's Most Wanted" segment ("sometime in February," we're told), but that will be the first time we get Jane Doe's facial reconstruction out to a national audience.
 
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