GUILTY CO - Cops violently arrested woman with dementia, 73, laughed about it afterwards, 2021

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But they will be convicted in one way or the other. A police officer must be "squeaky clean". Im sure their careers in LE are definitely over :)
 
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SBops said:
I wish that I could believe that, but I dont.
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Really? I thought there are procedures which eliminate convicted people from LE. I wonder which state AH will choose now - after Texas, Florida, Colorado - he still has 40+ ones to choose from! Some people are obsessed with wanderlust haha.
 
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I've watched that video again of the first interaction between the woman and the cop. A quick assessment would have shown she was elderly. Instead of getting out of the car and escalating the situation why couldn't he have engaged her by saying he was concerned about her walking on a busy road and volunteered to take her home? Why was his first response to escalate? Even if she didn't appear to have dementia why did he immediately view her as a threat? Other than her pulling her arm away from him, she didn't appear aggressive. His reaction to her pulling her arm away was like going from zero to 60 in less than a second. That is very concerning.
 
Dotta said:
But they will be convicted in one way or the other. A police officer must be "squeaky clean". Im sure their careers in LE are definitely over :)
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I don’t think another department will hire Hopp and probably not Jalali either. Can’t say about the community service officer. His involvement was limited. That sergeant needs to be accountable too.
 
branmuffin said:
I've watched that video again of the first interaction between the woman and the cop. A quick assessment would have shown she was elderly. Instead of getting out of the car and escalating the situation why couldn't he have engaged her by saying he was concerned about her walking on a busy road and volunteered to take her home? Why was his first response to escalate? Even if she didn't appear to have dementia why did he immediately view her as a threat? Other than her pulling her arm away from him, she didn't appear aggressive. His reaction to her pulling her arm away was like going from zero to 60 in less than a second. That is very concerning.
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I agree. This was simple shoplifting case. There was no reason to escalate it that fast. The video at the booking station shows that he enjoys using force. That is not good. I would however like to know exactly what Walmart told police about her.
 
Dotta said:
Really? I thought there are procedures which eliminate convicted people from LE. I wonder which state AH will choose now - after Texas, Florida, Colorado - he still has 40+ ones to choose from! Some people are obsessed with wanderlust haha.
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Quietly letting people go rather than have a public inquiry is a normal response to LE who have been deemed unsuitable for the job. They don't necessarily have to break the law to be deemed unsuitable to be terminated, at least where I live.

If they break the law, however, then they should be prosecuted. No one is above the law. Cops are human. They engage in the same type of behaviors that the general public engage in. Domestic abuse, impaired driving, fraud, and any number of other crimes. The severity of the crime usually decides whether the officer is to be terminated. Tribunals try to be fair. If you, as a private citizen were convicted of impaired driving, would you lose your job? Probably not, so the officer is treated the same way. Maybe a reduction in rank or a financial penalty. Same with domestic violence. Most DV convictions for the general public don't result in job loss. Fraud convictions could be something like withholding information about extra income you make on your tax return. Millions of people do that and they don't lose their jobs. When a criminal charge is against the public, like the Derek Chauvin case, that's when things should change.
 
AH could always join Foreign Legion. But wait.... they don't break grannies' arms but kick a... of real baddies. Too bad... But seriously, I think hiring him as a police officer again would be a "kiss of death" for any future boss and police station. Good riddance!
 
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branmuffin said:
Quietly letting people go rather than have a public inquiry is a normal response to LE who have been deemed unsuitable for the job. They don't necessarily have to break the law to be deemed unsuitable to be terminated, at least where I live.

If they break the law, however, then they should be prosecuted. No one is above the law. Cops are human. They engage in the same type of behaviors that the general public engage in. Domestic abuse, impaired driving, fraud, and any number of other crimes. The severity of the crime usually decides whether the officer is to be terminated. Tribunals try to be fair. If you, as a private citizen were convicted of impaired driving, would you lose your job? Probably not, so the officer is treated the same way. Maybe a reduction in rank or a financial penalty. Same with domestic violence. Most DV convictions for the general public don't result in job loss. Fraud convictions could be something like withholding information about extra income you make on your tax return. Millions of people do that and they don't lose their jobs. When a criminal charge is against the public, like the Derek Chauvin case, that's when things should change.
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I am not okay with law enforcement keeping their jobs if they're convicted of DUI, fraud, or -my goodness - domestic violence. I don't think most people are okay with that.
 
That the officers are reprehensible and sadistic is obvious.

I have a question, though. How did a woman with dementia end up at Walmart? She was living alone, with her family in the adjacent house. Was her dementia considered so mild that she did not require supervision? Who was staying with her at night? How did a woman with dementia end up in a store and no one in the house noticed it? Did she escape? Did she sneak out of the house?

Elderly people are at times like children. But if something like this happened to a child, one of the first questions would be, “where is his mom? Babysitter?” This is why I am asking it.

(With the policemen, it is obvious. This couple is like two bullies. And the public response is good. My question is, why do people with diagnosed dementia end up unobserved? Having no care? Or worse, was the family listed as caretakers? Or did the doctor miss her dementia?)

P.S. “Prior to the arrest, the grandmother of nine lived in her own apartment within eyesight of her daughter’s backyard and happily followed a daily routine.” (From the article).

Who supervised her routine?
 
Charlot123 said:
That the officers are reprehensible and sadistic is obvious.

I have a question, though. How did a woman with dementia end up at Walmart? She was living alone, with her family in the adjacent house. Was her dementia considered so mild that she did not require supervision? Who was staying with her at night? How did a woman with dementia end up in a store and no one in the house noticed it? Did she escape? Did she sneak out of the house?

Elderly people are at times like children. But if something like this happened to a child, one of the first questions would be, “where is his mom? Babysitter?” This is why I am asking it.

(With the policemen, it is obvious. This couple is like two bullies. And the public response is good. My question is, why do people with diagnosed dementia end up unobserved? Having no care? Or worse, was the family listed as caretakers? Or did the doctor miss her dementia?)

P.S. “Prior to the arrest, the grandmother of nine lived in her own apartment within eyesight of her daughter’s backyard and happily followed a daily routine.” (From the article).

Who supervised her routine?
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The woman is an adult. Even if she is in the first stages of dementia, she cannot be imprisoned.
 
Gibbo214 said:
The woman is an adult. Even if she is in the first stages of dementia, she cannot be imprisoned.
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No. But if she has dementia, someone has to take care of her, observe, or supervise. Usually the social services prefer in-home care, but then either someone in the family is paid for caregiving, or some worker gets hours for it.

The situation when a person with diagnosed dementia is left to fend for herself and buy own groceries, with credit cards, keys, and all, is totally shocking.

And agreeing with the justified anger towards the police, I still can not understand how the old woman with dementia fell through all the cracks of social services.
 
Charlot123 said:
No. But if she has dementia, someone has to take care of her, observe, or supervise. Usually the social services prefer in-home care, but then either someone in the family is paid for caregiving, or some worker gets hours for it.

The situation when a person with diagnosed dementia is left to fend for herself and buy own groceries, with credit cards, keys, and all, is totally shocking.

And agreeing with the justified anger towards the police, I still can not understand how the old woman with dementia fell through all the cracks of social services.
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We will have to agree to disagree about that. She obviously (to a health professional) is in the early stages of dementia and locking her up is no way to handle it. She is not a danger to anyone, not even herself without overzealous police officers. They are the ones who need locking away from society, not her.
And what if she does not want to be 'observed'? She is an adult. You would have to commit her to take her rights away from her.
 
branmuffin said:
I've watched that video again of the first interaction between the woman and the cop. A quick assessment would have shown she was elderly. Instead of getting out of the car and escalating the situation why couldn't he have engaged her by saying he was concerned about her walking on a busy road and volunteered to take her home? Why was his first response to escalate? Even if she didn't appear to have dementia why did he immediately view her as a threat? Other than her pulling her arm away from him, she didn't appear aggressive. His reaction to her pulling her arm away was like going from zero to 60 in less than a second. That is very concerning.
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This. She was picking wildflowers, for Pete's sake, and told him she was going home.

She lives in sight of her daughter. She has apparently been capable of walking a couple blocks to the store and coming back home before without a problem. She forgot to pay for her items - and the store got the items back before she left the store.

Even worse than the encounter was leaving an elderly confused small woman handcuffed sitting in a cell in great pain for hours while these clowns sat within hearing distance and did nothing - even after having heard the 'pop' and knowing perfectly well she wasn't faking the pain. And why was she left handcuffed in the cell for hours?

Worse, the department sat on this for months and was perfectly happy to let it slide. A whole lot of heads should roll here, but I doubt that they will.
 
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