CO - Dylan Redwine - Forensics Discussion- *WARNING!* MAY INCLUDE GRAPHIC DETAILS

[Tink56]

A little bit about the coyote...
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/species_a_to_z/SpeciesGuideIndex/coyote/tabid/6598/Default.aspx
Migration Patterns: Year-round resident; juveniles will break from the family unit and establish their own territory anywhere from 10 to 100 miles away.

The area probably also has bear, mountain lions, wolves....and certainly the smaller scavengers...birds, mice and rats, etc....

The search for further remains would be unfathomable, IMO...MOO

I was curious after looking up coyote information. Here's some further information on the wolves and bears...didn't get to the mountain lions...

WOLVES:
Territory: The smallest territory on record was held by a pack of six wolves in northeastern Minnesota, which occupied an estimated 33 km2 (13 sq mi), while the largest was held by an Alaskan pack of ten wolves encompassing a 6,272 km2 (2,422 sq mi) area..
Feeding: Once the breeding pair has finished eating, the rest of the family tears off pieces of the carcass and transport them to secluded areas where they can eat in peace. Wolves typically commence feeding by consuming the larger internal organs of their prey, such as the heart, liver, lungs and stomach lining. The kidneys and spleen are eaten once they are exposed, followed by the muscles.[142] A single wolf can eat 15–19% of its body weight in a single feeding.[143]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_wolf#Social_and_territorial_behaviors

BLACK BEARS:
Over 90% of a bear’s natural diet is grasses, berries, fruits, nuts and plants. The rest is primarily insects and scavenged carcasses.
A black bear may have a range from 10 to 250 square miles.
http://wildlife.state.co.us/WildlifeSpecies/Profiles/Mammals/Pages/BlackBear.aspx

COLORADO WILDLIFE
A Comprehensive List: This is a huge list of Colorado wildlife.
http://wildlife.state.co.us/WildlifeSpecies/Profiles/Pages/WildlifeProfiles.aspx

 

[ColdHands]

Dylan Redwine's father talks about his son


Dylan Redwine's father talks about his son - YouTube


Posting this here, as a forensic anthropologist is interviewed in this clip, as it relates to the discovery of the bones.

Boy, I have just never been a fan of Channel 7 news - something about their reporters just kind of grates on my nerves.

In this case, LE did state that it was a positive DNA match that led them to identify the remains as Dylan's. The reporter didn't even get that right.

Guess we just wait and see if LE tells us anything more about what they've found and what they can learn from their findings.

 

[ColdHands]

Melissa Blasius ‏@MelissaBlasius

La Plata County Coroner: Dylan Redwine's cause of death will likely be "undertermined" based on lack of remains found. #DylanRedwine #9News

WOW

 

[carbuff]

This is another "I hate to type that" thought: but the items that have been mentioned as being found are quite compatible with pieces an animal would drag from elsewhere to its den. Small enough to carry some distance.

 

[Mitsana]

WARNING: In case you decide to look around in this book, please note that there are extremely graphic pictures in it.

Quoting myself...

<snip>
I saw this in a google book extract (Forensic Taphonomy: The Postmortem Fate of Human Remains, section on carnivore scavenged remains)...
<snip>
(from a chart on p 376).

If the only predators to worry about were coyote, it would absolutely make sense to continue the search IMO. The chart I mentioned previously provides the odds of finding different types of bones, even years after they have been scattered from canid predation and scavenging. The odds vary, but there are some reasonably high probabilities, and they add up.

The fact that the victim was a child does lower the probabilities. Cliffs may make it harder to find everything and I'm not sure what the bear and mountain lion do to the probabilities. (Maybe that is available elsewhere in the book. I know there is a separate section on polar bear but large sections of the book are elided because they want you to buy it.)

But the upshot is, just because there was scavenging does not rule out the possibility of finding further remains. Odds are very high that there is more to be found if the effort were made (unless it has already been found and LE isn't forthcoming).

 

[Mitsana]

BBM Unfortunately many forms of wildlife WILL eat clothing and/or shoes, especially leather. Think of the puppies and other older dogs who often make a trip to the vet's after consuming socks, shoes, furniture, etc.

) :

That's a good point. The uppers might well be leather. That still leaves indigestible soles. I don't know if a bear, say, would eat the whole shoe, making it much harder to find the sole in some random location later.

 

[Mitsana]

Melissa Blasius &#8207;@MelissaBlasius

La Plata County Coroner: Dylan Redwine's cause of death will likely be "undertermined" based on lack of remains found. #DylanRedwine #9News

WOW

Unless they are taking their deception to a pretty high level, I guess that rules out my hope that LE was withholding knowledge of some critical find that provided insight to the COD (e.g. cranium).

 

[KateNY]

Jul 1, 2013
http://www.9news.com/news/article/343074/222/Redwine-death-will-likely-remain-undetermined

KUSA - The La Plata County coroner says it is unlikely a cause of death will be determined in the Dylan Redwine case. Coroner Jann Smith says she will probably have to rule the cause and manner of death as "undetermined."

The remains of Dylan are still at a Colorado Bureau of Investigations lab, and they may be examined by both the coroner and an anthropologist before an autopsy report is completed.

Dylan was 13 when he disappeared from his dad's southwest Colorado home in Nov. 2012. La Plata County Sheriff's officials say they are investigating his death as a crime. Sheriff's deputies spent five days last week searching an area called Middle Mountain where they found Dylan's bones.

~snip

BBM

Sounds like examination of remains hasn't been done, as yet.

Likely could be a while, unfortunately some of these agencies have significant backlogs

 

[katydid23]

A sad but true experience we had with our local coyotes. We live in a suburb but we live next to a lake and have coyotes that come down from the mountains frequently.

We had an indoor cat that went missing. We never did find out how he escaped the house. But one awful morning I got a call from a neighbor three blocks away. She found our cats head and the collar, with our phone number. :cry: I went over to retrieve the collar and see where it happened. It was very far away from here/

 

[La Louve]

You can tell what a wild canid has been eating and how long ago it ate, by looking at its scat. When they eat an animal, the bone, hair and hooves will be the last things digested. So if you are out tracking wolves (which is how I know this) if you see their scat you can learn a lot by checking it out more thoroughly. If it is stinky and soft and brown (more like regular dog poo) you're looking at digested soft tissue, recently eaten. If it's firmer and often with more "texture", it's digested organs, eaten a few days ago. If it is white, dry, no smell, often with hair mixed in, it's bone, which is the last thing to be digested (up to a week or more). If we see scat like that, we know that the animal hasn't eaten in a while. Wolves can go up to two weeks between meals.

Since we don't know the condition of the found sock, I imagine it might have not been whole. A canid (or bird of prey for that matter) searching for the last edible remains would have to work to get through a sock to get to the little bit of flesh that might still be attached to a foot. (sorry Dylan )

 

[asyousay]

LE would not of just stopped searching for the remains . There is clearly a reason why they have come to the conclusion that they have found all they are going to .

:cow:

 

[Cherry]

I still dont understand about the shoe laces. Is there a possibility he committed suicide using the laces? They are releasing so little info; that it's causing speculation. If they are saying there is no one on the hunt for small boys in that area....then what exactly do they mean? Why did they call this a homicide and now maybe it's inconclusive? That will never lead to an arrest. I still want to know if the axe they recovered was the axe for cutting wood, not axe for men as was suggested. This is a homicide, per LE. Then I log in and it's possibly undetermined. The laces say to me possible suicide. I have to keep all options on the table at least until LE decides to release FACTS. I still suspect his father, in the worst way. His lack of concern and flat affect, are classic signs of a sociopath.

 

[iSleuth]

LE would not of just stopped searching for the remains . There is clearly a reason why they have come to the conclusion that they have found all they are going to .

:cow:

While trying to find some evidence of what forensic came out of the vehicles I found this :

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...edwines-father-does-not-call-father-a-suspect


Is that a normal set up for a search/seizure? That was nov 29, 2012
I really do not know, if all the tents, taking of vehicles are all normal or pretty much red flags showing a crime scene or just normal. Would love to hear people's thoughts on this.

I think today will be a very telling day.

 

[Salem]

While trying to find some evidence of what forensic came out of the vehicles I found this :

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...edwines-father-does-not-call-father-a-suspect


Is that a normal set up for a search/seizure? That was nov 29, 2012
I really do not know, if all the tents, taking of vehicles are all normal or pretty much red flags showing a crime scene or just normal. Would love to hear people's thoughts on this.

I think today will be a very telling day.

I think it is normal for when LE wants to do a thorough search and has some indication that they may find something. Like when LE knows something is wrong, but they don't know what happened and it is the last reported place for the missing person.

LE needed to establish that Dylan really made it to MR's so they needed to find something that would place Dylan there. Then, they needed to see if they could find anything that would tell them what happened to Dylan.

Salem

 

[asyousay]

I think it is normal for when LE wants to do a thorough search and has some indication that they may find something. Like when LE knows something is wrong, but they don't know what happened and it is the last reported place for the missing person.

LE needed to establish that Dylan really made it to MR's so they needed to find something that would place Dylan there. Then, they needed to see if they could find anything that would tell them what happened to Dylan.

Salem

The other week you said you would post what you thought was clues in the search warrant. You never did end up posting what you meant, care to share now ?

 

[Salem]

Sorry asyousay - I tend to get distracted easily

I think the search warrant held a lot of clues. There were the swabs taken by the couch and sent in for analysis - we don't know what result.....

There were the sweat pants that were definitely too small for MR.... I have to wonder why they couldn't be used as a smell item for the dogs early on, kwim?

There was the bandaid -- we don't know who that was from nor how old it was, but is certainly sets the stage for some speculation....

I think, and this is my opinion only, that the swabs were how LE determined that Dylan actually made it to MR's house the night of the 18th.

Now - I need to go back and reread those warrants and refresh my memory.

Salem

 

[Salem]

Oh.... also the swab from the pipe by the washing machine. I don't know if that is standard procedure or not? Nor do we know if it yielded any results. Nor do we know exactly what kind of pipe. I am assuming it is a drainpipe and that investigators were checking to see if there was forensic material that may have been washed down a sink or on clothes that were put in the washing machine.

I think it the pipe was considered a possibly as a weapon, that LE would have taken it with them - so I really think it was a drain pipe.

Salem

 

[aust amateur slueth]

I still dont understand about the shoe laces. Is there a possibility he committed suicide using the laces? They are releasing so little info; that it's causing speculation. If they are saying there is no one on the hunt for small boys in that area....then what exactly do they mean? Why did they call this a homicide and now maybe it's inconclusive? That will never lead to an arrest. I still want to know if the axe they recovered was the axe for cutting wood, not axe for men as was suggested. This is a homicide, per LE. Then I log in and it's possibly undetermined. The laces say to me possible suicide. I have to keep all options on the table at least until LE decides to release FACTS. I still suspect his father, in the worst way. His lack of concern and flat affect, are classic signs of a sociopath.

IMO there is NO possibility that he committed suicide when LE have said

The La Plata County Sheriff's office says this was not an accident and not the work of an animal. No suspects have been named, but they were clear: someone did this to Dylan.

http://www.9news.com/news/article/342601/339/Dylan-Redwines-father-brother-speak-out

 

[asyousay]

Oh.... also the swab from the pipe by the washing machine. I don't know if that is standard procedure or not? Nor do we know if it yielded any results. Nor do we know exactly what kind of pipe. I am assuming it is a drainpipe and that investigators were checking to see if there was forensic material that may have been washed down a sink or on clothes that were put in the washing machine.

I think it the pipe was considered a possibly as a weapon, that LE would have taken it with them - so I really think it was a drain pipe.

Salem

Yeah , I always assumed they was looking for blood that could of been left behind from washing clothes . I wonder if they ever asked for the clothes Mark wore on Sunday and Monday ?!

 

[Mitsana]

I may be getting O/T (depending on what you include in forensics), but I'd like to respond to this point...

Sorry asyousay - I tend to get distracted easily

I think, and this is my opinion only, that the swabs were how LE determined that Dylan actually made it to MR's house the night of the 18th.

Salem

From the press report:

"Investigators confirmed that Dylan arrived at Mark’s home on Sunday at about 8:00 PM after stops at Wal-Mart and McDonald’s in Durango."

Since the timing is so specific, I suspect the use of Dylan's Ipod touch from MR's wireless network is the source of this confirmation.

Analysis of the swabs might provide an extra measure of certainty that he had been there (but that could have been from a previous visit).