CO - Jessica Hernandez, 17, killed by police after LEO struck by stolen car

Kimberlyd125

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I see no problem with them cuffing or searching someone who has been shot. That is for their own protection. It makes sense. What doesn't make sense is refusing to offer any kind of basic life saving measures after that has taken place. Also, a little common sense comes into play when a person is obviously incapacitated, the priority should be to save their life, not necessarily cuff them right away. JMO

How long after Jessica was cuffed and searched did EMS or Fire dept get there? Do we know?

As far as the common sense thingy, tactical experts disagree.
Cops are trained to cuff first. Even if it seems the downed suspect is incapacitated.
 

liljim

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In error?

lol i knew this was coming as soon as i read his post earlier...

but yeah, something like "But when an officer shoots someone in a more controlled situation and any threat seems to be eliminated the response should different." would be better. in my opinion of course.
 

Kimberlyd125

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A neighbor captured a video of the female suspect being searched by police after she was shot. In the video, the teen is handcuffed and rolled on her stomach and back on the ground, appearing to be searched.

The girl is limp, silent and motionless as officers move her about.

Emergency medical responders arrived soon after and moved her onto a stretcher and into an ambulance.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27394478/denver-police-shoot-2-suspects-critically-injuring-one

Doesn't sound to me like they did anything wrong. They cuffed her, searched her, and EMS took over.
 

al66pine

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It is one thing utilizing extreme caution when dealing with violent criminals like the bank robbers from the North Hollywood Shootout. But when an officer shoots someone in error the response should be different.

IIUC, your thinking re cuffing & searching a downed person -
1. C & S is acceptable for violent criminals, like in ^N/H/W shootout. Y or N

2. if LEOs fire shots 'in error' they should not C & S the downed person ? Y or N

3. in this case, LEOs fired shots in error. Y or N

4. in this case, LEOs should not have C & S this downed person . Y or N

5. in this case where LEOs h/b/advised car is stolen, & driver refused to follow LE orders to stop car or exit car, when that car or driver was also subject of excessive noise or other suspicious actions, and 3 (or 4?) other passengers refused to follow orders to exit car, then after shooting,
LEOs should not C & S downed driver. Y or N

6. ^all factors from Q 5, plus driver drove car toward LEO in front of car, then after shooting, LEOs should not C & S downed driver? Y or N

7. Have you read linked article in http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/m...issue_id=52012 , advising LEOs to C & S downed persons? Y or N

Or does 'extreme caution' phrase apply to something other than C & S? ___

Thx in adv.
 

Tawny

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It still blows my mind that literal military enemy combatants are treated better than citizens being arrested. I don't care what the crime is.
 

Fred Hall

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IIUC, your thinking re cuffing & searching a downed person -
1. C & S is acceptable for violent criminals, like in ^N/H/W shootout. Y or N

2. if LEOs fire shots 'in error' they should not C & S the downed person ? Y or N

3. in this case, LEOs fired shots in error. Y or N

4. in this case, LEOs should not have C & S this downed person . Y or N

5. in this case where LEOs h/b/advised car is stolen, & driver refused to follow LE orders to stop car or exit car, when that car or driver was also subject of excessive noise or other suspicious actions, and 3 (or 4?) other passengers refused to follow orders to exit car, then after shooting,
LEOs should not C & S downed driver. Y or N

6. ^all factors from Q 5, plus driver drove car toward LEO in front of car, then after shooting, LEOs should not C & S downed driver? Y or N

7. Have you read linked article in http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/m...issue_id=52012 , advising LEOs to C & S downed persons? Y or N

Or does 'extreme caution' phrase apply to something other than C & S? ___

Thx in adv.

To me, the evidence suggests that the car was slow moving or stationary and thus did not present a threat of great physical harm to the officers. The only question in my mind is whether the officer fired due to nerves, or whether he fired because was enraged that the driver was fleeing and wanted to prevent her escape. His bizarre assault on her as she lay dying suggests the latter. As to the rest of your questions, the bank robbers from the North Hollywood shootout were still conscious and cursing when they were arrested after a protracted gun-battle, so they may have still been dangerous. And the magazine article which you cite constitutes informal advice given from one police officer to another, not legal analysis.
 

al66pine

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Kimberlyd125

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Bizarre assault on her?
That's crazy.

IMO they went by the book. You cuff and search. To protect yourself and others around you.

There was no bizarre assault on her.

JMO
 

Fred Hall

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bbm sbm

Have you seen vid of "his bizarre assault on her"? I have not (yet) assuming there is one. Or is this a witness description of LEO actions?

Link pls for "his bizarre assault on her"? Copy and paste? Thx in adv.

ETA: Glad you noted ref to link: http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/m...issue_id=52012

I have not seen the relevant video, as it has not yet been released to the public. However, certain journalists have seen it and there seems to be no dissent as to what it shows — a limp and bleeding woman being handcuffed and rolled back and forth on the ground. When dealing with a seriously wounded person, these acts are not only bizarre; they are life threatening. Abrasions were also found on the driver's face and chest, suggesting that rather than being laid on the ground, she was dropped or thrown. This is odd too, since she would have been offering no resistance at the time due to her having been shot through the heart.
 

Elley Mae

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IDK Maybe it's me but I can not see how this could have come out any differently considering what JH did. I have not even looked at this case very much to know that she is the cause of her own death, no one else. jmo
 

Fred Hall

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IDK Maybe it's me but I can not see how this could have come out any differently considering what JH did. I have not even looked at this case very much to know that she is the cause of her own death, no one else. jmo

The man who shot two rounds into her chest isn't at least tangentially involved?
 

RANCH

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I have not seen the relevant video, as it has not yet been released to the public. However, certain journalists have seen it and there seems to be no dissent as to what it shows — a limp and bleeding woman being handcuffed and rolled back and forth on the ground. When dealing with a seriously wounded person, these acts are not only bizarre; they are life threatening. Abrasions were also found on the driver's face and chest, suggesting that rather than being laid on the ground, she was dropped or thrown. This is odd too, since she would have been offering no resistance at the time due to her having been shot through the heart.
BBM

I'm not sure if any journalists have viewed this alleged video. The articles that mention it don't say that they did or didn't view it. It could be they were only reporting what they were told. JMO.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27394478/denver-police-shoot-2-suspects-critically-injuring-one

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27612803/jessica-hernandez-shot-four-times-autopsy-says
 

Fred Hall

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BBM

I'm not sure if any journalists have viewed this alleged video. The articles that mention it don't say that they did or didn't view it. It could be they were only reporting what they were told. JMO.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27394478/denver-police-shoot-2-suspects-critically-injuring-one

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27612803/jessica-hernandez-shot-four-times-autopsy-says

You're right about that — the writer does not explicitly state that he watched the video himself. In my defense, journalists are taught not to state things that people have told them as facts, but to qualify those things as "so-and-so told me". This journalist stated what the video showed bluntly and without qualification. If it turns out that he was just repeating what he had heard, he should be fired.
 

RANCH

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You're right about that — the writer does not explicitly state that he watched the video himself. In my defense, journalists are taught not to state things that people have told them as facts, but to qualify those things as "so-and-so told me". This journalist stated what the video showed bluntly and without qualification. If it turns out that he was just repeating what he had heard, he should be fired.

Yes, your right. If the video was released to the public it wouldn't matter much because it would be available for everyone to see. Since it hasn't been made public (for some unknown reason) it's hard for me to draw any conclusions about the police actions that are being described.

JMO.
 

al66pine

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AFAIK, no MSM quotes from anyone who explicitly states he/she has viewed vid #1 or#2.
AFAIK, only #3 was publicly released, but sorry no link.

1.
"Brianna Diaz, whose house backs up to the alley where the shooting happened, said her 16-year-old sister was a passenger in the car. Diaz said her mother ran out of the house after hearing the shots and was stopped by an officer who grabbed her and tried to calm her down.
"My mom told me to start filming, but when I took out my phone, the cop was like, 'Don't you dare!' " she said.
Four teen girls and a teen boy had been sitting in the car for several ho
urs...." bbm
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27394478/denver-police-shoot-2-suspects-critically-injuring-one

Not clear to me whether ^she did or did not record^ whether she did or did not save.

2.
"A neighbor captured a video of the female suspect being searched by police after she was shot. In the video, the teen is handcuffed and rolled on her stomach and back on the ground, appearing to be searched. The girl is limp, silent and motionless as officers move her about. Emergency medical responders arrived soon after and moved her onto a stretcher and into an ambulance." bbm
same link as above

3.
IIRC, ~ couple days after shooting, MSM published passenger's cell vid clip showing JH & another girl,~1 hr before shooting.

Poss there are other vids 'out there' (in The X-Files show. LOL. J/K).
 

Fred Hall

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"A neighbor captured a video of the female suspect being searched by police after she was shot. In the video, the teen is handcuffed and rolled on her stomach and back on the ground, appearing to be searched. The girl is limp, silent and motionless as officers move her about. Emergency medical responders arrived soon after and moved her onto a stretcher and into an ambulance."
I don't think a journalist would have made the above statements based on nothing but a rumor that such a video existed.
 

Kimberlyd125

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Kinda like a father would never make a statement that a medical examiner told him his daughter was shot 18 times.
There is always so much rumor and misinformation often brought about by the hype and people wanting it to be a certain way. To prove their point.

JMO

I have no doubt a video exists of LE dragging JH out of that stolen car, cuffing her, and searching her. It's standard protocol.

JMO
 
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