CO - Jessica Hernandez, 17, killed by police after LEO struck by stolen car

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by al66pine, Jan 26, 2015.

  1. Minette

    Minette New Member

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    Or, based on my experience after being cut out of a car and then my clothing after a horrible accident, LE wanted to prevent having an injured (and possibly deceased) Jessica posted all over social media before the family had been notified. In my case, media was on the scene trying to get film of them cutting me out of the car and LE prevented that. All that they ended up getting was a shot of my feet as I was loaded into the ambulance and of course this was run quite a few times that evening to the distress of my family/friends. Setting aside any distrust for the motives of LE for the moment, it is *really* (IMO, of course) distasteful and disrespectful to be standing there with your freaking phone filming someone down on the ground who is injured/dead.

    Of course, everyone with a smart phone is a 'journalist' these days, which is a genie that can't be put back into the bottle, but in my view the only reason LE might not want bystanders filming the body of someone who is on the ground bleeding is NOT that they have guilty consciences and are trying to suppress the truth.

    Good grief.
     


  2. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    bbm sbm

    Minette, Thanks for your post, jogging a memory of a party conversation.
    .
    Somebody there joked about always wearing clean underwear in case he was in a bad car wreck.
    EMT said - 'Forget about about clean or dirty, because if it's more than a fender bender, in looking for injuries
    we'll
    cut you out of your clothes, underwear included.'
    .
    Minette's post made me realize that likelihood or potential for EMT cutting clothes & exposing her is one reason
    why LEOs asked/told (if they did) ppl not to record after JH was shot.
    .
    Second, in follow up, LE may want to ask crim investigtion Q's of family or friends before details are leaked.

    Last, who wants random stranger selling vid footage to Nat'l Enq? Or family & friends to learn of injury or death from SM?
    At least w MSM, newspaper, station, or website reporters often/usu. (not always) withhold ID of casualties or fatalities pending notice to family.

    I ack. some LEO's ask/tell ppl not to record for another reason: they don't want others to see their actions, as Fred Hall said. imo, darn rarely.
     
  3. Fred Hall

    Fred Hall New Member

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    My point was that I didn't say the officers actions were "not necessary"; I said they were psychopathic. I am not interested in whether their acts were in line with police protocol, as protocol is made by police and not by general society. The witness who claims to have been threatened makes no mention of EMTs; she makes it sound like the officers were alone on the scene. And they were not cutting away clothes to give first aid — they were giving no aid whatsoever. They had just killed a person and apparently were not comfortable having their subsequent actions recorded. As an aside, an officer from Harrisburg, Pa is in legal trouble regarding a shooting. What caught my eye is the fact that the officer gave CPR and apparently did not handcuff the victim despite being alone and female.
     
  4. Tawny

    Tawny Bye

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    It's legal in every state to film police officers, regardless of what they're doing.

    If a person then posts the videos/images on social media and others present in the video wish it to be removed, they have to go through legal channels to have that happen, and it's unfortunate, but I'd rather not let it become illegal to video tape public servants. JMO (and I DO find it extremely tasteless to post photos/videos of those involved in accidents)
     
  5. Fred Hall

    Fred Hall New Member

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    sbm

    The fact that something is standard operating procedure does not mean very much. It is entirely possible for an officer's acts to be illegal or unconstitutional and yet to conform to department protocol. Regarding my "reasoning, if any", it is certainly subjective to describe something as "bizarre". When I said that I might not be alone in that belief, I was implying that the officers themselves may have realized that their post-shooting actions were questionable and for this reason allegedly threatened the girl who attempted to record them. As for "assault", moving a seriously wounded person roughly or unnecessarily is life-threatening, and it would seem that the officers moved the driver's body so roughly that they caused abrasions to her face and chest. The reasonableness of these actions needs to be investigated along with the reasonableness of the shooting itself. It is not enough for the DPD to simply point to protocol and blather on about fiendish criminals faking death. Everything that happened needs to be subjected to an impartial investigation, but will it be? Without federal intervention, not a chance.
     
  6. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Tawny, Thanks for this ^ post.
    .
    "... legal in every state to film police officers..."
    Agreed, legal.
    .
    "... extremely tasteless to post photos/videos of those involved in accidents ..."
    Agreed, extremely tasteless.
     
  7. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    sbm

    Fred Hall, Thank you for your post.

    Thinking your "bizarre" reference was repeated from MSM, I re-read many stories looking for the word bizarre
    but did not find. Thanks for clarifying that it was your characterization of LE behavior.
    As I said (~) We're all entitled to our own opinions (with or without reason), so thanks for explaining your reasoning.

    "The reasonableness of these actions needs to be investigated along with the reasonableness of the shooting itself ...
    subjected to an impartial investigation
    ."
    Agreed.

    Thanks again.
     
  8. pigpen000

    pigpen000 New Member

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    It should be a crime for any LE to stop someone filming/recording their actions, let alone threatening them, at very minimum it is unethical. It should be tampering with evidence. MOO
     
  9. Fred Hall

    Fred Hall New Member

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    The officers had just shot the driver dead and were in the process of throwing 'round her corpse and upon seeing a camera-phone they suddenly became concerned about relatives' emotional distress? Call me cynical, but I rather suspect that they realized their actions at that moment would look very bad on video and that they would receive national media attention if it got out, making the case that much harder to hush up. As regards the appropriateness of filming the scene, there may be a problem if a person is trying to film a scene from 10 feet away, but the witness stated that she was in her own backyard when she was threatened. She was also not wielding a telephoto lens, but a camera-phone.
     
  10. Fred Hall

    Fred Hall New Member

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    Accidents are one thing, but this case involves an intentional homocide. As such, I believe that it would have been in the public interest to record the aftermath.
     
  11. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Clipped from Fred Hall post:
    "The officers had just shot the driver dead and were in the process of throwing 'round her corpse..." sbm


    Fred Hall, Thanks for your response again. Every day I'm on Websleuths I learn something new.
    So much information shared here and many experts on the board.

    Q1.
    "The officers had just shot the driver dead" bbm
    Not finding MSM stating she was pronounced dead at scene. Did I miss it?
    MSM link pls to support above 'shot dead' stmt.

    Q2.
    Ack'ing -
    - autopsy report noted abrasions (~term?) on JH and
    - acking it's poss those could have come from LEO(s) moving her from car to alley or curb.
    Is it poss that after being shot, that as LEOs moved her from car to curb,
    she was alive, twisting, flipping, struggling to break away? Me? IDK, just thinking it's possible.

    Q3.
    Is it poss after being shot, as LEOs moved her, she was alive, trying to hit or kick LEOs? Me? IDK, possible.

    Q4.
    If she was not dead at scene, is it poss her movements contributed to those abrasions?
    Is it possible, say 1 chance in 3, 5, 10, 100, that her movements contributed to abrasions? Me? IDK. possible.
    chance in a million?

    Q5.
    MSM link pls, wrt moving her, phrased as "throwing 'round her corpse." Or source of phrasing?

    Anyone? Thx in adv.


    I say po-tay-toe; some say po-tah-toe.
     
  12. Fred Hall

    Fred Hall New Member

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    I did not say that the driver was pronounced dead at the scene. However, she had been shot directly through her heart, so I think it's a reasonable statement to say that she was dead. The officers may not have known this, but they knew that she was bleeding profusely from her chest and that they were the ones who had shot her. Hence my doubt that they were worried about the driver's relatives and not about themselves. Regarding the origin of the post-mortum abrasions, I am not a doctor, but I do not find it likely that a person who has been shot thtrough their left ventricle and right atrium would be able to kick and struggle. I think your "chance in a million" has it. The phrase "throwing 'round her corpse" is obviously my own; witnesses describe the driver's body as being "dragged" and "rolled".
     
  13. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    sbm

    Fred Hall,
    Thanks for responding again.

    To better gauge this one chance in a million, I'd like to know -
    how does that compare to a snowball's chance in hell. More or less likely? LOL. ;) J/K.
    Hardly anything left to quibble about here; wish we had some new info on this situation.
    Been good chatting w you about it - expanding my horizons.

     
  14. Fred Hall

    Fred Hall New Member

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    Same here. Regarding the case, there will probably be no further developments for several months.
     
  15. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    For change of case, try ex-LEO from Chicago suburb: Quick refresher from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Peterson
    "In 2009, Peterson was indicted for the murder of his third wife, Kathleen Savio, after a second autopsy gave evidence to a struggle. He was convicted in 2012 and received his sentence of 38 years on February 21, 2013."
    No fanclub here, as shown by overall tone of thread on new crim charges in 2015 when this thread starts:

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?270661-Drew-Peterson-charged-with-trying-to-hire-hit-man-to-kill-Glasgow
    Lots of other threads if you have interest other than JH in Denver.

    .
     
  16. Yoda

    Yoda Master

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    Please provide a MSM link where it says the police were throwing 'round a corpse. I believe everyone has a right to their opinion, but exaggeration of events is unnecessary. Jmo
    I also believe that officers should not tell anyone to stop filming and that if they do there needs to be repurcussions. I'm not sure what the repurcussion would be. Much to think about.
     
  17. Yoda

    Yoda Master

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    FWIW I don't remember when, it was either later that day or the morning after LE confronted JH. I went to the scanner archives to listen to the calls from dispatch and found several hours were missing from the archives of that day.
     
  18. Fred Hall

    Fred Hall New Member

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    I can't provide a link, as the characterization "throwing 'round" is my own. I base it on eyewitness claims that the driver's body was dragged and rolled, and the presence of post-mortem abrasions. I'm not saying the body was literally "thrown" — it's a figure a speech for "handled roughly".
     
  19. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    bbm sbm

    Autopsy report (p. 2, para.V) refers to abrasions and contusions on JH, but not describing as post-mortem in that section.
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/257233152/Jessica-Hernandez-Autopsy-Report
    Can anyone find ref to them as 'post mortem' elsewhere in rpt?
    Never mind, I think we've got answer from below, that her abrasions & contusions, if made when LEOs moved her, were not post-mortem.


    Based on A/Rpt's "Evidence of Medical Intervention" describing
    in tech med lingo about ~4 procedures (presumably) by EMTs and/or hosp ER or OR, appears she was not pronounced dead at the scene.

    [​IMG]







    Thx in adv.
     
  20. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    What are we looking for? Or when?
     

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