CO - Jessica Hernandez, 17, killed by police after LEO struck by stolen car

[Fred Hall]

Uniformed Officers have responsibilities to protect public safety and their own lives. Along with this responsibility comes certain legal protections, because of the danger which comes with their job responsibilities.

That car was about to flee onto the public streets. being driven by a panicked teen who had been drinking and getting high, and was out on another stolen car charge from days earlier. She was not going to drive safely through those streets. She had 4 other kids along for the ride. It might have ended much worse if she was able to get away from that alley. JMO

I am not a lawyer, but I believe the danger has to be immediate to justify lethal force. The suspicion that someone may drive recklessly at some time in the future is a poor justification for homicide.

 

[Yoda]

The mom meant the other kids were unaware the car was stolen, I believe. The cop knew it was stolen before he called for back up and did not approach until back up arrived.

One of the kids told her mom that she 'had no idea' the car was stolen, but I think mama is pretty naive, or in deep denial.

Haha, sorry. It was supposed to say msm not mom (mainstream media) going back to correct it. :seeya:

 

[CoolJ]

Uniformed Officers have responsibilities to protect public safety and their own lives. Along with this responsibility comes certain legal protections, because of the danger which comes with their job responsibilities.

That car was about to flee onto the public streets. being driven by a panicked teen who had been drinking and getting high, and was out on another stolen car charge from days earlier. She was not going to drive safely through those streets. She had 4 other kids along for the ride. It might have ended much worse if she was able to get away from that alley. JMO

By this logic, it would justifiable for LE to use lethal force to stop a drunk driver. Sadly, it appears that is kind of the direction we are heading in.

 

[katydid23]

I am not a lawyer, but I believe the danger has to be immediate to justify lethal force. The suspicion that someone may drive recklessly at some time in the future is a poor justification for homicide.

I did not say that the situation warranted lethal force because of that , but just saying that it could have ended in a deadly high speed chase, with more deaths involved than just the drivers.

But it is not just 'suspicion' that someone fleeing in a stolen car 'may' drive recklessly. Obviously if one is taking part in a police chase, they ARE in fact driving in a reckless manner. Pulling away from the cops, who are ordering you to STOP, while driving a stolen car is reckless in and of itself. jmo

 

[Yoda]

And another slightly different version of where the officers were:
"The Denver resident said Jessica had parked the car in an alley behind her house when a police cruiser drove up to them. Jessica reversed, Trina said, but another police car blocked their path.
Jessica drove forward and was passing police officers who had positioned themselves on each side of the car when the first shots rang out, Trina said.
“They were right next to it, like really close,” she recalled. “Then she went unconscious and that’s when we crashed into the fence.”" http://www.buzzfeed.com/adolfoflores/passenger-latina-teen-killed-by-cops-speaks#.duALL7do0

 

[katydid23]

By this logic, it would justifiable for LE to use lethal force to stop a drunk driver. Sadly, it appears that is kind of the direction we are heading in.

I did not say that it warranted the cops shooting her. But they were going to do everything possible to prevent the stolen car from leaving. They know it only gets more dangerous once the chase enters the public streets. And they don't know if the suspects are armed and dangerous, or are holding a car jacked victim hostage, or what is going on.

Thinking of the victim now, as a young unarmed teen, we may view the cops was being brutal and over reactive. But there was a strong possibility it was a car full of violent armed robbers--and then no one would have made a peep.

 

[katydid23]

And another slightly different version of where the officers were:
"The Denver resident said Jessica had parked the car in an alley behind her house when a police cruiser drove up to them. Jessica reversed, Trina said, but another police car blocked their path.
Jessica drove forward and was passing police officers who had positioned themselves on each side of the car when the first shots rang out, Trina said.
“They were right next to it, like really close,” she recalled. “Then she went unconscious and that’s when we crashed into the fence.”" http://www.buzzfeed.com/adolfoflores/passenger-latina-teen-killed-by-cops-speaks#.duALL7do0

YES. THANK YOU for finding that. This was what I had read earlier when I contended that she was trying to squeeze around the cop that was blocking her forward movement with the car.
And I think she had one of the cops pinned between her car and the fence alongside her. Which is why the shots were from the side.

 

[katydid23]

Haha, sorry. It was supposed to say msm not mom (mainstream media) going back to correct it. :seeya:

That's funny because I saw an interview with a mom, whose kid was in the car. And she was the one who said the others did not know the car was stolen. Which I find hard to believe.

 

[Woodland]

And another slightly different version of where the officers were:
"The Denver resident said Jessica had parked the car in an alley behind her house when a police cruiser drove up to them. Jessica reversed, Trina said, but another police car blocked their path.
Jessica drove forward and was passing police officers who had positioned themselves on each side of the car when the first shots rang out, Trina said.
“They were right next to it, like really close,” she recalled. “Then she went unconscious and that’s when we crashed into the fence.”" http://www.buzzfeed.com/adolfoflores/passenger-latina-teen-killed-by-cops-speaks#.duALL7do0

This version states the officers were standing on either side of the car when the shots were fired. Nothing about an officer pinned first.

She was driving past the officers and was shot? She couldn't have had much speed.

Not justified if this info is correct imo.

 

[al66pine]

.... And incidentally this case will never be discussed by a trial jury. The DPD will investigate themselves and find no wrong, the family will sue for wrongful death, the city will settle, and the taxpayers will pay.

bbm sbm

Agreeing, this case will not be discussed by a criminal trial jury,
but wrongful death action may reach civil jury, which would be instructed to consider diff elements from crim case. And diff level of proof as well.
IIUC, local PD policy may be considered in any internal disciplinary action against LEOs involved.

 

[Fred Hall]

I did not say that it warranted the cops shooting her. But they were going to do everything possible to prevent the stolen car from leaving. They know it only gets more dangerous once the chase enters the public streets. And they don't know if the suspects are armed and dangerous, or are holding a car jacked victim hostage, or what is going on.

Thinking of the victim now, as a young unarmed teen, we may view the cops was being brutal and over reactive. But there was a strong possibility it was a car full of violent armed robbers--and then no one would have made a peep.

I think that you are quite correct in saying that the cops were going to do everything possible to prevent the car from leaving. They were apparently willing to shoot the driver to prevent the car from leaving.

 

[Fred Hall]

YES. THANK YOU for finding that. This was what I had read earlier when I contended that she was trying to squeeze around the cop that was blocking her forward movement with the car.
And I think she had one of the cops pinned between her car and the fence alongside her. Which is why the shots were from the side.

If that was the case she had passed the officer when the shots were fired and did not present a threat to him.

 

[Yoda]

This one witness has given three different versions of where officers were. *or media is twisting her words.
I have not come across any interviews from the other three witnesses in the vehicle.
I also have not seen or heard anything about the video that was taken as they were cuffing JH. I wonder why the neighbor who took it has not made it public.

 

[Woodland]

The one witness has given a consistent story - 2 officers on foot, others arriving from both ends of the alley. They had her surrounded - a plan made while the teens could not see them getting into position. Which was the job for these officers.

To me, they anticipated her fleeing - which would be a correct call on their part imo.

The shooting was not necessary or justified though imo. A bad call, a bad shoot. Jmo. The citizens of Denver will have to open their wallets before long to finish the job started by LE that day.

 

[katydid23]

The one witness has given a consistent story - 2 officers on foot, others arriving from both ends of the alley. They had her surrounded - a plan made while the teens could not see them getting into position. Which was the job for these officers.

To me, they anticipated her fleeing - which would be a correct call on their part imo.

The shooting was not necessary or justified though imo. A bad call, a bad shoot. Jmo. The citizens of Denver will have to open their wallets before long to finish the job started by LE that day.

That is a judgment call whether it was a bad shoot or not. But you cannot use 20/20 hindsight. It looks and feels a lot different when you are the one on foot, in the street, standing alongside the thousands of pounds of moving metal.

Juries usually side with the cops because they take that into account. The cops have a split second to decide and they are going with 'worst case scenario' when they decide to shoot or not. And since it is reported that the cop was hit, they will likely be seen as justified. JMO

I am not sure the citizens will be on the hook in this one. Her recent record and her social media rants and admissions will work against her, imo.

 

[katydid23]

This version states the officers were standing on either side of the car when the shots were fired. Nothing about an officer pinned first.

She was driving past the officers and was shot? She couldn't have had much speed.

Not justified if this info is correct imo.

I disagree that this indicates it was not justified. Of course she did not have much speed YET---she was just taking off. It does not matter though.

The officer was in a bad position according to the cops version. And according to the teen in the car, he was between the car and the fence. So this car was trying to flee---BY ALL ACCOUNTS---and was heading in the direction of a cop on foot.....JUSTIFIED IMO

 

[katydid23]

I think that you are quite correct in saying that the cops were going to do everything possible to prevent the car from leaving. They were apparently willing to shoot the driver to prevent the car from leaving.

CORRECT. They told the fleeing felon to STOP the car and she refused. They saw the car begin to move in the direction of a cop on foot, and so they shot.

The driver of the stolen car had a suspended license, was drinking under age and high, was out on bail for an earlier stolen car chase incident, refused direct orders to stop the car, and tried to flee. Many bad choices on her part which led to this shooting. JMO :cow:

 

[Fred Hall]

I don't suppose the investigators will have any way of verifying exactly where the car was parked and how far it moved? That knowledge would narrow down the the possibilities.

 

[Yoda]

Every article I have read has stated there were two officers at the scene when shots were fired. Can someone please share a link where it says there were more? I'm not looking for one that uses the one witness' account. TIA

 

[Fred Hall]

CORRECT. They told the fleeing felon to STOP the car and she refused. They saw the car begin to move in the direction of a cop on foot, and so they shot.

The driver of the stolen car had a suspended license, was drinking under age and high, was out on bail for an earlier stolen car chase incident, refused direct orders to stop the car, and tried to flee. Many bad choices on her part which led to this shooting. JMO :cow:

I agree that these choices you list led to the shooting, they just don't legally justify it. That requires the ramming aspect of the story.