CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #33 *ARREST*

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BBM: Hey, Dave, bear with me, sometimes I'm a little slow on the uptake, but if I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying that we should speculate that they found no forensics because they said they didn't need to do the testing on small sized samples? Couldn't it be the case that when they went in with Luminol at night to KB's the walls/floors/ceilings all lit up with evidence that PF thought he concealed?

Also, I'm wondering if they could still do the charcoal blowing stuff there even though it's an antiquated procedure. Sometimes there's no substitute for old-fashioned police work.
JMO.
See, that is what is throwing me off...because , i just dont feel it would have been a bloody scene/confrontation. He dwarfed her. I feel like it would have been so easy for him to overpower her and end her life without bloodshed. IMO
 
See, that is what is throwing me off...because , i just dont feel it would have been a bloody scene/confrontation. He dwarfed her. I feel like it would have been so easy for him to overpower her and end her life without bloodshed. IMO

jewels, here is where I am hung up right now: he solicited her murder months in advance. So there was premeditation as well as what passes for "planning" with PF. However, I do think it's very possible he simply "lost it" that day at her place and he killed her violently himself. I've been wondering if the Thanksgiving holiday was some kind of trigger. Maybe he wanted to just show up and take baby K with him for Thanksgiving and KB said no, she was staying with her for the holiday. Or maybe KB was supposed to have gotten something ready for Thanksgiving, and she hadn't....or, or, or...I can think of a lot of scenarios. I think he had some kind of explosion that day. I think the murder was both premeditated AND spontaneous. JMO.
 
See, that is what is throwing me off...because , i just dont feel it would have been a bloody scene/confrontation. He dwarfed her. I feel like it would have been so easy for him to overpower her and end her life without bloodshed. IMO
Just because it didn’t have to be a bloody scene, doesn’t mean that it wasn’t.

Of course he could have killed her in a bloodless way, but that doesn’t mean he did.

Much stronger men use guns, knives, blunt objects, and all sorts of other things in crimes like this.

I keep coming back to one thing though:

What happened after that final search (Kelsey being likely dead, and the house being the scene of her murder).

A witness statement wouldn’t suffice here. It would have to be corroborated by physical evidence.

That’s why I think blood.
 
Just because it didn’t have to be a bloody scene, doesn’t mean that it wasn’t.

Of course he could have killed her in a bloodless way, but that doesn’t mean he did.

Much stronger men use guns, knives, blunt objects, and all sorts of other things in crimes like this.

I keep coming back to one thing though:

What happened after that final search (Kelsey being likely dead, and the house being the scene of her murder).

A witness statement wouldn’t suffice here. It would have to be corroborated by physical evidence.

That’s why I think blood.
Logically I agree, there has to be something like that to have brought about the arrest, charges and statement that they believe she is dead. Dont know why I am fighting that in my head. Just am. But that physcial evidence, it has to be there.
 
Just because it didn’t have to be a bloody scene, doesn’t mean that it wasn’t.

Of course he could have killed her in a bloodless way, but that doesn’t mean he did.

Much stronger men use guns, knives, blunt objects, and all sorts of other things in crimes like this.

I keep coming back to one thing though:

What happened after that final search (Kelsey being likely dead, and the house being the scene of her murder).

A witness statement wouldn’t suffice here. It would have to be corroborated by physical evidence.

That’s why I think blood.

I think there was a copious amount of blood found somewhere. Or evidence that there had been blood there. They brought Murder 1 charges forward speedily, when they didn't need to do so. They KNOW she is dead without having her body. Either KB suffered a horribly violent death, or PF dismembered her. Perhaps both, but almost certainly one or the other. JMO.
 
Logically I agree, there has to be something like that to have brought about the arrest, charges and statement that they believe she is dead. Dont know why I am fighting that in my head. Just am. But that physcial evidence, it has to be there.
I think you’re fighting it because it is so illogical on his part.

Why commit a bloody crime when there is an easier way to go about it?

It’s so unnecessary.

Then again, so is murder.
 
I believe that it's highly unlikely that large pools of blood, or anything like that were found. The hardwood flooring and textured sheetrock walls would be difficult to clean so well that neither CB or the police spotted anything at all. I also believe that the reason the second search was conducted at night was because Luminol works better in the dark, especially for locating minute splatters. However, Prosecutor May's Assistant DA explained in a news conference that the reason they dropped objection to the "Order Preservation of Physical Evidence" was that the minute pieces of evidence that they thought they were going to use had proved not to be evidence after all, and that although they did reserve the right to bring the matter up again, they didn't anticipate having any evidence in the future that might be small enough to be destroyed in testing.
Let's speculate that they found nothing at all in forensic matter worth introducing in court. They can still proceed, if they other evidence that is strong.
CSI style forensics has solved many a murder case, but there are still people around who remember when "Forensics" meant blowing charcoal dust all over everythning, making a bunch of gooey impressions, and shipping them off to the FBI lab in Virginia for fingerprint matching. Somehow, prosecutors found ways to convict most of the guilty parties. It certainly will be interesting when this case is finally laid out. IMO
BBM
I don't remember hearing that the evidence proved not to be evidence. IIRC, the ADA explained that the testing was no longer as urgent and that they would be working with the defense on how the testing would proceed.
MOO
 
Moo, if he snapped per say in the “heat of the moment” he could have gotten carried away and it could have been rather bloody. He may have lost hope when the soliciting of her murder wasn’t going his way and something triggered him wanting it done right then.
 
IMHO, it wasn't heat of the moment. I think PF went to KB's place with someone on Thanksgiving and killed her. I have no idea how, but presumably he had thought this out as well as everything else, so he had a plan he thought he could pull off. I think he would have wanted to be efficient - just as efficient as if he were dealing with a farm animal.

A long shot: a syringe full of something heavy you use on big farm animals. He's a farrier, not a vet, so I don't know if he would have access to something like that.

I also think there's a strong chance that he disposed of the body that same day. I think the texts were interesting. He had to know the texts would only buy him a certain amount of time and then things would start falling apart.

Also JMO, that 'friend' of KKs that spoke to the lawyer couple. Something about it just doesn't smell right. I wonder: if KK loves PF but still doesn't entirely trust him over killing KB, she might think she could protect herself by 'confiding' in a friend who could be called on to testify on her behalf later if necessary. She very well might never have dreamed that this friend would then tell a lawyer couple who would take it on national TV.
 
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Moo, if he snapped per say in the “heat of the moment” he could have gotten carried away and it could have been rather bloody. He may have lost hope when the soliciting of her murder wasn’t going his way and something triggered him wanting it done right then.
bbm
... and afterwards celebrating with KL, who was already waiting for taking the cellphone?
 
Wow. Interesting. I never even thought about that as a possibility. We have a Sonic where I live and I will definitely check the next time I pick up a Cherry Limeaide (they are great).

Many moons ago my first job ever was at a Sonic and I was a car hop. LOL Back then we had to wear coin changers on a belt around our waist and we had aluminum trays with hooks that went over the glass of a car window so it was well before video cameras in the car stall days. :)
That is exactly why I go there! Cherry Limeade!!!
Yum!
Seriously think about it. The food chain has to uphold a reasonable responsibility to their customers.
Unlike McDonald's and similar fast food places, where their customers dine indoors, Sonic has customers eating inside thier car.
What if one had a heart attack or got choked?
They would be liable.
IMO
IF the nurse showed up there for food, drive through or drive in slot, she WAS caught on camera and the make, model and license plate was probably identified as well.
All MOO
 
You're right, and it's scary. What's really frightening IMO is that most people aren't even concerned about protecting their privacy any more. They're perfectly comfortable with all of their personal info being out there full frontal and flapping in the breeze for everyone to see.

Down with Big Brother.
Down with Big Brother.
Down with Big Brother.

JMO.

Protect your DNA from testing on ancestral sites. You would be surprised which big pharmaceutical companies own or are linked to some of these.
 
BBM
I don't remember hearing that the evidence proved not to be evidence. IIRC, the ADA explained that the testing was no longer as urgent and that they would be working with the defense on how the testing would proceed.
MOO

You can actually use super glue to form print impressions these days. You just do not commit homicide without physical evidence left behind. LE has stated that they believe KB died in the townhome. Somehow, they draw that observation.
 
Good morning! Was hoping for some new news this morning about the dump search to distract from all the political news crap, murders, and meham in the local and world news. February 19th is too far away :(
 
I know this is not a common theory. I think I'm the only one who has it. But it still remains a possible theory in my mind...a slight learning disablity. Yeah, for PF.
1) He had a possibly confused expression in court.
2) He asked someone three times to kill for him which seemed to be off the wall.
3) He lived with Mom with no apparent plans of moving out.
4) He could train animals if he had it.
5) For a planned out crime, he sure left a lot of evidence. I think we're all assuming there's a lot of evidence.
6) Last (but not least) with this theory someone would probably have helped him clean up.
BTW He still would be absolutely and 100% culpable, even if this theory true.
 
I know this is not a common theory. I think I'm the only one who has it. But it still remains a possible theory in my mind...a slight learning disablity. Yeah, for PF.
1) He had a possibly confused expression in court.
2) He asked someone three times to kill for him which seemed to be off the wall.
3) He lived with Mom with no apparent plans of moving out.
4) He could train animals if he had it.
5) For a planned out crime, he sure left a lot of evidence. I think we're all assuming there's a lot of evidence.
6) Last (but not least) with this theory someone would probably have helped him clean up.
BTW He still would be absolutely and 100% culpable, even if this theory true.

Possibly and a good theory. I think he was just stupid and careless. moo!
 
Good morning! Was hoping for some new news this morning about the dump search to distract from all the political news crap, murders, and meham in the local and world news. February 19th is too far away :(

Good Morning!

I so agree, the 19th can not come fast enough. Been steadily checking in on here but until then this is at a standstill. :rolleyes:
 
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