CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #45*ARREST*

[nwmouse]

I think it is more likely that PF drugged KB with the drugs KK admitted she could obtain because she was a nurse.

JMO

Which drugs were used?

KK already testified that she brought coffee with sleeping meds to KB and it didn't work because KB didn't drink it?

So who used Ambien or Valium or _____? (Alprazolam aka Xanax?) Ambien Zolpidem/Xanax aka Alprazolam (most benzos) are so bitter anyone would gag if it was placed in food/drink? Its not like in movies. They would cause vomiting which may lead to aspiration on vomit but unlikely.

Only Barbiturates would cause the brain and respiratory system to shut down, not ambien/alprazolam/benzos? Did KK have authority to obtain barbiturates? Unlikely, only end of life cancer docs can r/x them.

If KK tried Sekonol or Phenobarbital which are end of life drugs for terminal illness how could she have obtained them? There is a strict medical FDA register to obtain those, plus the doctor who rx'd them would be backed by a pharmacy who actually dispensed them? One would need an FDA license number. There are VERY strict protocols in place.

Benzos/Ambien/Xanax drugs are disgustingly bitter and taste gross. KB would have tasted the bitterness in her coffee. They do not kill a person, only severe vomiting/hangover symptoms for very good reasons.

We understand from KK's testimony that PF blindfolded KB and then bashed her brains in with a baseball bat.

Why would KK jeopardize her own testimony by LYING to CBI/LE about drugging KB until PF got to her home and beat her to death?

MOO

 

[ajaylee]

I'm really curious about KB helping PF with the cattle the night before PF and then her going to pick up medicine for his ulcer. Why ask her to do that? He must have had some ranch hand or ranching buddy he could have asked instead. Was this designed to cause her to be really exhausted on TG day? Maybe he was planning on telling Ma that KB couldn't make it to TG dinner because she was too tired? Maybe he knew she'd act weird when she got really tired out and he was counting on that. In my opinion, KB helping him like this shows that in her mind they are still together. Just seems weird to me. MOO.
Edited for spelling

I wish we knew where they checked the cows. I'd like to know if he went straight home and she went to the pharmacy and then to his place. Did she deliver them to his door?

Logistically, wherever the cows were, it wasn't convenient for PF to swing by the pharmacy on the way home - otherwise even KB might have wondered why he didn't pick the meds up himself.

 

[ab01]

One of the often over looked things to me that is really hard for me to explain away is:

How Do you rationally explain to a jury that PF contacted Doss aviation and alerted them that KB wouldn't be into work that week and that she went to visit her grandmother. Then Via a phone conversation with a Doss Employee he claimed that KB was a Drug addict. Yet when LE questioned PF he doesn't mention it and says he has no idea where she is. I wonder how many times PF contacted work for KB and told them she wouldn't be in for the next week? Thats just so irrational. Circumstantial yes! But extremely compelling IMO and I think the jury will think so as well.

 

[MemPat]

That would be a bloodless death, one that doesn’t jibe with the crime scene.

Yes, he could have drugged her.

Of course we’d have to ignore evidence and simply make up facts, for that to be the case.

I am genuinely confused as to how some alternative scenario is more likely, especially when we have an account that jibes with what was found in that house.

Respectfully.....concerning the "alternative" theories floated today:

We could as easily speculate that PF pushed his red truck to Starbucks
while KK ran behind with a pink sweater on her head and Ambien in hand
as KB napped in the black tote.

Is this productive?

 

[Gardener1850]

Blow back would absolutely come from a dead body if close enough.
They use dead pigs and meat and sponges in ballistic forensics, as well as gel.
It just depends on how close the gun was to the body.

*by the way, I took a photo of the barrel of my gun and there was a hair from my Bichon in it!
I keep it in a safe...
How did that get there???

Anyway...
I am also suspicious what type of guns MG and KB had. Were the bullets interchangeable?
What did the FBI discover when comparing the two.
THINKING....
Yeah, I am beginning think KK was going along with a suicide story. Brought the friend's gun down, someone shot her and POOF!
PK produced KB's gun.
AFTER THE FACT.
If KB was gonna commit suicide she'd use her own gun. After all, he took her out to that exact area the night before TG! Her footsteps were everywhere.
KK- Straight under the bus.
Everything she has has said is not going to match the crime scene.
The cell phones may line up, but IMO the real evidence won't.
And why did he need to travel to check on a dead body in a barn more than once???
ALL Moo

Why do you think what she said will not match the crime scene? I think it sounds as if it does match. KK said there was blood in certain locations and they found that blood. She said KB was beaten to death in the living room and they found evidence to support that-- they could tell that KK had cleaned up. I think there could be many other details that were not included because those details won't change the fact that PF beat KB to death and PF is the murderer. What kind of "real evidence" do you expect the defense to uncover to exonerate PF and throw KK "under the bus"?

 

[scmom]

I think it is more likely that PF drugged KB with the drugs KK admitted she could obtain because she was a nurse.

JMO

What do you think happened after he drugged her?

 

[MassGuy]

One of the often over looked things to me that is really hard for me to explain away is:

How Do you rationally explain to a jury that PF called Doss aviation and told them that KB wouldn't be into work that week and that she went to visit her grandmother. Yet when LE questioned PF he doesn't mention it and says he has no idea where she is. I wonder how many times PF called into work for KB and told them she wouldn't be in for the next week? Thats just so irrational. Circumstantial yes! But extremely compelling IMO and I think the jury will think so as well.

Yup, just another piece of compelling evidence.

He lied to a lot of people, trustworthy people.

He lied to the police, and the call was recorded.

He lied to Doss, KB’s mom, and untold others.

His lies were documented on surveillance footage, and tracked by his phone activity.

That cannot be ignored.

 

[mtnlites]

Which drugs were used?

KK already testified that she brought coffee with sleeping meds to KB and it didn't work?

So who used Ambien or Valium or _____? (Alprazolam aka Xanax?) Ambien/Xanax aka Alprazolam (most benzos) are so bitter anyone would gag if it was placed in food/drink? They would cause vomiting which may lead to aspiration on the vomit but unlikely.

Only Barbiturates would cause the brain and respiratory system to shut down, not ambien/alprazolam/benzos? Did KK have authority to r/x barbiturates? Unlikely, only end of life cancer docs can r/x them.

If KK tried Sekonol or Phenobarbital which are end of life drugs for terminal illness how could she have obtained them? There is a strict medical FDA register to obtain those, plus the doctor who rx'd them would be backed by a pharmacy who actually dispensed them? There are VERY strict protocols in place.

Benzos/Ambien/Xanax drugs are disgustingly bitter and taste gross. KB would have tasted the bitterness in her coffee.

We understand from KK's testimony that PF blindfolded KB and then bashed her brains in with a baseball bat.

Why would KK jeopardize her own testimony by LYING to CBI/LE about drugging KB until PF got to her home and beat her to death?

MOO

Right-o on the bitterness. Plus, some people have naturally high tolerances. Even a nurse would have trouble determining the right dosage like that, especially since there'd be no way of knowing if whatever substance it was put in would even be finished off or not. I guess you could take a chance on mixing certain drugs but, even then, you're chancing that they're going to finish the drink (assuming it's a drink) IF they wind up drinking anything after the first sip at all. Then they'd have to chance that the person would keep the pills down and not just vomit them back up.

 

[gngr~snap]

Nov. 24, 2018
Berreth’s and Frazee’s phones exchange one text message around 7:45 a.m. and a phone call just before 4 p.m. They both use the same tower in Florissant near Frazee’s home in the morning and eventually again went to the same area west of Cripple Creek they had gone the prior two days.

The 2 phones texted back and forth and he went to Cripple Creek several times over 48 hours!
Was he just working?
Kelsey Berreth case timeline: Everything we know so far

 

[Gardener1850]

I wish we knew where they checked the cows. I'd like to know if he went straight home and she went to the pharmacy and then to his place. Did she deliver them to his door?

Logistically, wherever the cows were, it wasn't convenient for PF to swing by the pharmacy on the way home - otherwise even KB might have wondered why he didn't pick the meds up himself.

I thought we learned from the hearing that his cows were in Westcliffe. But I might have imagined that...

 

[MyBelle]

Blow back would absolutely come from a dead body if close enough.
They use dead pigs and meat and sponges in ballistic forensics, as well as gel.
It just depends on how close the gun was to the body.

*by the way, I took a photo of the barrel of my gun and there was a hair from my Bichon in it!
I keep it in a safe...
How did that get there???

Anyway...
I am also suspicious what type of guns MG and KB had. Were the bullets interchangeable?
What did the FBI discover when comparing the two.
THINKING....
Yeah, I am beginning think KK was going along with a suicide story. Brought the friend's gun down, someone shot her and POOF!
PK produced KB's gun.
AFTER THE FACT.
If KB was gonna commit suicide she'd use her own gun. After all, he took her out to that exact area the night before TG! Her footsteps were everywhere.
KK- Straight under the bus.
Everything she has has said is not going to match the crime scene.
The cell phones may line up, but IMO the real evidence won't.
And why did he need to travel to check on a dead body in a barn more than once???
ALL Moo

BBM. I think everything KK has claimed PF told her about the murder is not going to match the crime scene. I hope they find KB in the landfill but I have a hard time believing the "body was in the fire" story. I think all that was burned were the bags of stuff she removed from the townhouse.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I think they'll prevail on a conviction because they have his car on security video and a cell phone was used in her kidnapping. It's being tried in federal court because of the cell phone use. IL doesn't have the death penalty.

JMO

Yes, they have a single video clip of his car near where she was picked up. Like with this case, LE had much more evidence we were not privy to. There's no way he will get anything less than LWOP, and I think the same is probably true of PF. These were both extremely brutal murders without a body. Thankfully, for Lingling's family's sake, no one is questioning whether or not she's dead, anyway, since it appears they will never find her body unless he decides to trade her location to save himself from the DP.

 

[nwmouse]

Right-o on the bitterness. Plus, some people have naturally high tolerances. Even a nurse would have trouble determining the right dosage like that, especially since there'd be no way of knowing if whatever substance it was put in would even be finished off or not. I guess you could take a chance on mixing certain drugs but, even then, you're chancing that they're going to finish the drink (assuming it's a drink) IF they wind up drinking anything after the first sip at all. Then they'd have to chance that the person would keep the pills down and not just vomit them back up.

Yup. Anyone who is a virgin Ambien(Zolpidem/Xanax/Alprozolam/Ativan aka Lorazepam) user would have low tolerance and would experience double vision, nausea, vomiting and dangerous hypertension like 180/110 but not enough to kill them unless combined with alcohol or strong opioids and underlying condition like hypertension. Others who have high tolerance to CNSD would need a far higher dose. I don't think KB falls into this category.

Those tolerant to high doses of CNSD's (central nervous system depressants) would experience side effect that were bad but they would not kill unless combined with drugs like Fentanyl/Ketamine or other strong, high dose opioids. Tranquilizers are manufactured NOT to lead to death when consumed or an OD. They are *NOT* barbiturates which shutdown the brain and respiratory stem ala Marilyn Monroe.

 

[PommyMommy]

BBM. I think everything KK has claimed PF told her about the murder is not going to match the crime scene. I hope they find KB in the landfill but I have a hard time believing the "body was in the fire" story. I think all that was burned were the bags of stuff she removed from the townhouse.

JMO

Much of what KK has told police about the crime scene has already been corroborated.
MOO

 

[OldLadyBlues]

For sure. Oil makes black, thick smoke. I remember some from the area remarking that any fire back in November while it was still dry, would have drawn lots of attention. Even though there farm was hidden, there still may have been smoke that was visible.

Not only does oil throw up black smoke but heavy plastic totes burning make for gawd awful heavy black smoke. I know they were out in ranchette land, but the smoke alone should have been seen from somewhere.
A um....friend... just had a plastic container catch fire on her stove and I...er..she couldnt even see across the room for the pitch black smoke.

 

[jewelsmac]

Now that I am caught up. So....the genius that loaned KK the car, with the bonus loaded gun in it (the mind reels), is this the same friend that told her equally brilliant lawyer bosses about the plot to kill an innocent woman?

 

[1&2&3]

I don’t believe KB was drugged, IMO.

I don’t believe it either. How did the blood get all over the house?

Had PF been able to slip her just one Ambien, she would have been in a foggy, hazy state in 10-20 minutes if she was unfamiliar with the drug. Ambien hits each person differently. It is doubtful she was a moving target with an Ambien in her.

My thought is that if PF was angry enough to kill her, he wanted her to be aware of it. Evil thoughts to even write this!

 

[scmom]

Now that I am caught up. So....the genius that loaned KK the car, with the bonus loaded gun in it (the mind reels), is this the same friend that told her equally brilliant lawyer bosses about the plot to kill an innocent woman?

No, this was another...friend.

 

[marchioness96]

How investigators will search a landfill for Kelsey Berreth's remains - CNN
It may sound like an impossible task: searching a quarter-acre of a landfill for charred, decomposed human remains three months after a person was last seen alive.

But searchers are hopeful that they will find the remains of Kelsey Berreth and any other evidence that could shed light on her death.

[...]
Frazee's alleged mistress, who is cooperating with law enforcement, shared information that helped lead investigators to the Midway Landfill in Fountain, Colorado. Searchers will begin sifting through landfill detritus there on Tuesday and continue for at least 35 days until they make it through the area.

This is what we know from Woodland Park police about the search, plus additional insight from forensic anthropologists on what to possibly expect.

[...]

Ten searchers are expected to work eight hours a day for 35 days to make it through the primary target area, which is roughly the size of two tennis courts, and nine feet deep. The entire search area is 250' by 125' and 25 feet deep -- that's roughly two hockey rinks with 25 feet of garbage piled on top.

The estimated time frame could change based on their progress, Woodland Park Police Commander Chris Adams said.

[...]

"It's a slow, methodical search. We don't want to miss anything. I think we owe it to Kelsey and her family to -- to be as thorough as we can," Adams said.

The process resembles the procedure that forensic anthropologists use to search areas.

Bless them for doing such a gruesome job.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

One of the often over looked things to me that is really hard for me to explain away is:

How Do you rationally explain to a jury that PF called Doss aviation and told them that KB wouldn't be into work that week and that she went to visit her grandmother. Yet when LE questioned PF he doesn't mention it and says he has no idea where she is. I wonder how many times PF called into work for KB and told them she wouldn't be in for the next week? Thats just so irrational. Circumstantial yes! But extremely compelling IMO and I think the jury will think so as well.

I thought PF texted them, as if he was KB, saying she wasn't coming to work?