CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #47 *ARREST*

[Auntie Cipation]

Wow, that's a much better photo of their two doors. Obviously, pre camera installation. Looking at it directly, like that, I'm surprised the neighbors cam picked up anything at Kelsey's door.

If that neighbor didn't have a camera installed as of Dec 10, then they are not where the footage came from in November. That neighbor might well have installed cameras AFTER this killing, as would I if I lived so close to such a brutal crime, and especially as word gets out about how crucial the camera was in providing evidence. Heck, I'm considering getting a camera after reading about this case, and I live in a super safe community where all I would ever see, most likely, would be the deer in my garden and the UPS man...

 

[InvSmith]

Just a case of CYA. She knew she was in WP on those dates and she suspected LE knew too. I'm not convinced she was "solicited" by PF. Unless LE have specific texts that clearly show he solicited her, it's just her word and we know how reliable that is. Regardless, the tale has been spun and given some of the inconsistencies, I think it will unravel. PF's defence attorney will make sure of that. She wants everyone to believe she was just a poor lovesick puppy and wanted to help PF deliver baby K from that horribly abusive mother that burnt her little hand with an iron and slammed her hand in the refrigerator. Ugggh. These two monsters make me sick. No doubt PF did the deed, but KK wanted it as well, she just didn't have the stomach to follow through. I don't think it had anything to do with conscience, or she would have reported it before they came looking for her. I suspect the deal was KK would do it because they figured LE would never be able to tie her to it, you know, they were SOOO smart with that burner phone. Not too bright those two. I also suspect if SHE had done it and LE fingered HIM for it, he would have thrown her under the bus in a heartbeat. They really do deserve each other. I just can't buy the solicitation narrative. This was a conspiracy to commit murder. Just because she ratted out PF, that does not mean she isn't lying about other things.

The only summary I can come up with for why someone would tell the FBI of failed plots that in many ways sound frankly juvenile is that she just cannot discern that these thoughts and behaviors even if encouraged by another person are just inhuman/abnormal/incongrugent/incompatible with a normal functioning brain and heart. Driving to clean a bloody house is even worse. I don't think we have discussed this enough. Obviously, nutcase PF is the nucleus of this but it is not love. I just think it is odd to freely discuss trips to befriend a woman with intent to kill her like a normal occurence in the universe. Ultimately, she ends up in KB's house with her belongings and for a short time plays KB sending messages. It is just the lack of shame that is missing. I guess that is conscience.

 

[InvSmith]

The Dynamic Duo scored high in style points, but the technical skills just weren't there; and that made the overall score plummet. IMO

LOL. Needed this. These are the crazy patterns I stay up asking why would they do that???

 

[Dave F.]

Aside from the Berreth's interstate suit, can a legal guardian of baby K file a wrongful death suit, in Colorado, on behalf of her? Since she did live in CO and does have standing, wouldn't there be a good argument for it? I'd like to see the Berreths be granted the right to proceed and a suit on behalf of baby K.

Marcie McMinimee is the child's legal guardian at this time, and yes, she does have the right to sue on the child's behalf. That suit would be filed in Teller County District Court, not the Federal District Court in Denver where the B's lawsuit is filed. It could not be filed to include the B's, as they are not Colorado residents; BUT.............................
the more basic issue is the lawsuit itself. All of that which I just said are the rules for a wrongful death claim in the Colorado state Disctrict Court. The original filing by the Berreth's claimed damages caused by PF's outrageous conduct. Their second filing included facts of the killing itself, including what the Berreth's consider to be PF's outrageous lies to cover it up; which his lawyer is saying is allegation of wrongful death. It is filed in United States District Court, located in Denver, Colorado.
At the very bottom, and unstated, is an 1842 SCOTUS decision which dictates that when state and federal law conflict over the exact same issue, federal law is superior. Wrongful death is an area of civil law that is reserved for the states to decide. The federal court cannot assume jurisdiction over the rights of a Colorado citizen to filed in Colorado court, just because the filers live out of state. At it's bottom level, the two parties are slugging it out over whether this is a wrongful death complaint, or negligence by outrageous conduct. The child's legal guardian has waded in to assert the child's best interest, which is not necessarily aligned with either other view.
SF has nothing whatsoever to do with this, regardless of which way it goes. She simply has no legal standing.
If you are not confused now, just wait a few days. It's going to get a whole lot more confusing before it gets clearer. IMO

 

[Artis]

If that neighbor didn't have a camera installed as of Dec 10, then they are not where the footage came from in November. That neighbor might well have installed cameras AFTER this killing, as would I if I lived so close to such a brutal crime, and especially as word gets out about how crucial the camera was in providing evidence. Heck, I'm considering getting a camera after reading about this case, and I live in a super safe community where all I would ever see, most likely, would be the deer in my garden and the UPS man...

Was that photo from Dec 10? I didn't realize it, if so. I thought it was some random pic from the web.

I don't have any cameras, either, but would kind like to have an AK47 and a moat with alligators.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Trying to self educate about consumptive evidence, with help from my friend Google. I bolded the two words from the articles.

So, the prosecutors are not finding the evidence as critical, but perhaps the defense may want it done.

Just speculating:
Could it be the gun from the borrowed VW?

“Prosecutors and defense attorneys also discussed the motion for consumptive testing in the case for evidence that could be destroyed once it is tested. Both sides agreed that there was no need to rush the tests, as prosecutors said the piece of evidence was not as critical as they originally thought.”

Judge: Frazee warrant to remain sealed for now

“Many items of evidence contain invisible traces of DNA even if no obvious biological staining is present. Because DNA testing has become so sensitive, items such as knife handles and firearms can be swabbed to recover invisible cellular material potentially left by handlers of those items. Due to the expected low level DNA yield, the crime laboratory will typically swab the entire surface of the item, removing most if not all of the low-level DNA that was present. The entire swabbing is then consumed in the analysis, leaving nothing for an independent analysis.”

Consumptive Forensic DNA Testing •

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Was that photo from Dec 10? I didn't realize it, if so. I thought it was some random pic from the web.

I don't have any cameras, either, but would kind like to have an AK47 and a moat with alligators.

Yes I believe that photo was taken Dec 10 by @mustloveco , if I understood correctly.

ETA there is some question about whether the camera is up sufficiently high that it's hidden by the eave in that photo. So we don't yet know with certainty if it's in place at that time or not.

 

[Dave F.]

I'll bet you are correct, sir. Still, do you recall, at the time, the discussion of consumptive testing and did it apply to the the same piece of evidence?

The "consumptive testing" motion was filed before PF or his Defense team had seen the arrest affidavit, as a matter of routine protocol. I can't recall any gun being specifically mentioned, but it's important to keep this in the perpective that the discussion is really comparable to two co-owners of a parakeet discussing how big of a rubber hammer two veterinarians should use to test the tiny bird's knee reflexes. The co-owners can talk all they want, but ultimately the two doctors are going to decide. Then, the two parakeet co-owners will shake hands and say "We knew it was an easy decision, all along." and we won't hear any nore about it. IMO

 

[MemPat]

By the time this trial's over, though, hopefully everyone's revulsion for KK and her sweetie beauty of a plea deal will simply pale in comparison to their overwhelming feelings of loathing for PF.

We can never lose sight of this essential fact: PF swung the bat.

PF violently, viciously murdered KB, with their infant daughter in the home at the time.

By the time Dan May gets done recreating PF's bloody battering of KB, everybody's righteous fury will be squarely directed at the evil, malevolent automaton who killed KB with his own hands.

He isn't even human.

JMO.

Yep to all that.

 

[katydid23]

It's great that you feel the B's will prevail, but the federal judge isn't as far along in the case as you, and they don't normally jump to conclusions until the motions have been presented and argued. These are just the opening volleys in a lengthy procedural battle. IMO

Is saying they filed in the 'appropriate jurisdiction' the same thing as saying they 'will prevail?' I don't think so.

 

[MemPat]

The only summary I can come up with for why someone would tell the FBI of failed plots that in many ways sound frankly juvenile is that she just cannot discern that these thoughts and behaviors even if encouraged by another person are just inhuman/abnormal/incongrugent/incompatible with a normal functioning brain and heart. Driving to clean a bloody house is even worse. I don't think we have discussed this enough. Obviously, nutcase PF is the nucleus of this but it is not love. I just think it is odd to freely discuss trips to befriend a woman with intent to kill her like a normal occurence in the universe. Ultimately, she ends up in KB's house with her belongings and for a short time plays KB sending messages. It is just the lack of shame that is missing. I guess that is conscience.

I keep thinking about the grooming.

The crazy one obsessed with murder first jokingly speaks of how to kill in general and whoa, this doesn't send the listener running.....

Then, over time he gets more specific about who he wants killed and ways to do it.

Mix in a whole lot of "the baby is being hurt", "she's crazy" and "I love you" and before you know it, you have co-conspirators with one in a haz-mat suit mopping up blood!

 

[Seattle1]

Aside from the Berreth's interstate suit, can a legal guardian of baby K file a wrongful death suit, in Colorado, on behalf of her? Since she did live in CO and does have standing, wouldn't there be a good argument for it? I'd like to see the Berreths be granted the right to proceed and a suit on behalf of baby K.

They can and did. A conservator for baby K filed a state wrongful death action in Teller County, Co on behalf of KB on 2/15/19. [Case #2019CV30014].

 

[v0x]

They can and did. A conservator for baby K filed a state wrongful death action in Teller County, Co on behalf of KB on 2/15/19. [Case #2019CV30014].

I thought I’d read that. Is there a link to it?

 

[Seattle1]

I thought I’d read that. Is there a link to it?

No direct link but you can verify and/or purchase docs via the civil case number in the county provided.

 

[Snowsnake]

It is alleged that KB’s body was burned in a water trough in the front yard while KK and SF watched. Was baby K brought outside to watch her mother’s body burn? We have not yet found the bottom of this groups deprivity. I don’t think PF looked at baby K as nothing more than any of his possessions. Same level as his cattle, horses , or dogs. In my opinion he is that deprived of any human spirit.
I would like to know more about the water trough used. Typically they are of thin sheet metal construction with a cheaply welded seam down the middle of the bottom. Not built for heat and would probably leak during the fire. It has to be a treasure trove of evidence. What he did with it is very important. I also do not believe PF was able to get the fire hot enough for complete cremation. There were most likely a lot of remains and not dust to dispose of.
Finally I don’t think he will plead guilty. He has nothing but time on his hands for the rest of his life so he will play it for all it is worth.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

*

 

[Hatch]

EBM decided it was shooting in the dark.

 

[PommyMommy]

I agree the DP article is likely in error by including and/or referencing the child custody case status (sealed), with the initial wrongful death lawsuit, amended complaint, and subsequent motions regarding the same. Denver Federal Court however is appropriate jurisdiction for the Berreth's claim as non residents. I believe we will be seeing an updated/corrected DP story soon.

It's great that you feel the B's will prevail, but the federal judge isn't as far along in the case as you, and they don't normally jump to conclusions until the motions have been presented and argued. These are just the opening volleys in a lengthy procedural battle. IMO

Did you respond to the wrong post, Dave? Seattle is talking about jurisdiction, not who will prevail. ?
MOO

 

[lindaromas]

I was going to take a break from WS for a couple of days was just about asleep , and this went through my mind. What if PF blindfolded KB to stage a suicide? He shot her first, caught the casing in a bullet box, (or something that would catch the casing) her tooth flew out(or teeth) but she wasn’t deceased. He then went for a bat that KB had for protection and proceeded to kill her with the bat.
That’s when the suicide plan went south, after all he sent the text to CB pretending to be KB getting the gun back, cars still there, everything was there until he had to change things

For some strange reason in my half wake/ sleep I saw a freezer. I hope they checked the deep freeze at Franch

 

[Seattle1]

It is alleged that KB’s body was burned in a water trough in the front yard while KK and SF watched. Was baby K brought outside to watch her mother’s body burn? We have not yet found the bottom of this groups deprivity. I don’t think PF looked at baby K as nothing more than any of his possessions. Same level as his cattle, horses , or dogs. In my opinion he is that deprived of any human spirit.
I would like to know more about the water trough used. Typically they are of thin sheet metal construction with a cheaply welded seam down the middle of the bottom. Not built for heat and would probably leak during the fire. It has to be a treasure trove of evidence. What he did with it is very important. I also do not believe PF was able to get the fire hot enough for complete cremation. There were most likely a lot of remains and not dust to dispose of.
Finally I don’t think he will plead guilty. He has nothing but time on his hands for the rest of his life so he will play it for all it is worth.

I recall the only reference to the trough is AA statement #73 where the trough is described as round aluminum with approximately 100 gallon capacity. PF allegedly added accelerants and wood to keep fire going.

I'm going to continue to hope that KB was not cremated in that trough fire, and her remains will be located elsewhere.