CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

[GordianKnot]

I agree. I don't think this was about finances or child support. Look, the man went ape when a medical professional came between he and his child for a few moments. So much so that child services were called in.
This is about control over his child, and he wanted it and didn't want to share it with anyone. He became very aggressive with anyone who got between he and his daughter, and sharing custody would have been the ultimate loss of control for him.
This wasn't about money, it was about control. Having someone that was his, all his. Someone he owned, someone that was a part of him and he was aggressive with anyone that got between he and his child.

I think it's about both.
His money.
His kid.
They're linked.
PF didn't want KB to have control of either one.


JMO.

 

[Uninformant]

I don't think she ever got the chance to make it. She sent that text shortly before she was murdered. Imo

I’m not convinced she sent the text.

 

[Mom24]

The prosecution is the one who found the accusations PF made against KB. The accusations were made in March, so that would suggest to me that something happened in March to set him off. I had thought it was August, since that was the date he first began asking KK to kill KB, but instead we find out it was in March.
If I remember correctly, PF had told people that KB undermined him with his child and he was upset about that. With the way PF plays his game, I wonder if something happened in March, maybe the baby was hurt or injured while she was in his care and KB became concerned about his ability to take care of the baby while KB was at work.
Has it been stated anywhere when the custody papers were originally filled out by PF? And what in the world happened in March?

 

[MsBetsy]

I’m not convinced she sent the text.

Well, it was either right before or just after she went to the store so I don't see how she would have been without her phone. Imo

 

[Mom24]

I think it's about both.
His money.
His kid.
They're linked.
PF didn't want KB to have control of either one.


JMO.

Ah, that does make sense.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Some of us have said this countless times. But go back to that supposed first solicitation. A friend/lover/family member/coworker, take your choice, solicits you to commit a murder for him because he hates this person, because she abuses his child, because he wants control, because she is in your way of happiness, take your pick, what do you say to that person?

Sweetie, I need to check my calendar. Sure I can do that. Let’s shoot for October and if that doesn’t work I will drive 800 miles again in November. But oh, I cannot get off on Thanksgiving, being a kind loving nurse and all.

All of us would run screaming like a house on fire straight to LE.

This woman is a cold hearted, jealous, in-heat dog. She just keeps trying to help him and even shares this with her friends.
Yes she is capable of murder. She is culpable of a lot of things.

But where did this idea of murder come from? Who had the most to gain? Who hates KB the most? Who had the relationship with her? Who told all the lies about the relationship?

Yes it was PF. The same one who solicited KK in the first place. He is in jail. She got caught trying to cover for him. She is horrible. He is the murderer.

 

[PommyMommy]

The prosecution is the one who found the accusations PF made against KB. The accusations were made in March, so that would suggest to me that something happened in March to set him off. I had thought it was August, since that was the date he first began asking KK to kill KB, but instead we find out it was in March.
If I remember correctly, PF had told people that KB undermined him with his child and he was upset about that. With the way PF plays his game, I wonder if something happened in March, maybe the baby was hurt or injured while she was in his care and KB became concerned about his ability to take care of the baby while KB was at work.
Has it been stated anywhere when the custody papers were originally filled out by PF? And what in the world happened in March?

I'm confused. By accusations, are you talking about the DHS interviews? If so, the motion was filed March 20. I don't think we know when the accusations were made? Sorry if I've misunderstood. MOO

 

[MemPat]

BBMFF (Bolded By Me For Focus):

It is not at all hard for me to imagine in this day and age that there are many, many people who do not understand technology, particularly as it relates to cell phones, pings and tracking data. Not everyone is well-versed in technology, or even uses it that much...there are a lot of Luddites left in the world, myself included.

While it's your opinion that PF was not stupid enough to carry his and KB's two cell phones side by side along w/ him for 2 days,sending text messages from one to the other, that opinion is not borne out by the facts brought into evidence at the pc hearing.

The evidence shows that's precisely what he did; ergo, he is stupid enough to do it.
That's not the posters here saying PF's that stupid.
That's the evidence talking.

Nobody is suggesting that everyone here needs to be 100% sold on the fact that PF did it.
There are just many of us who are, and are going to express that confidence and the reasons for that level of certainty in our own minds.

I have opinions, as do you, as does every other poster here.
Opinions are highly individual, and it's rare for a poster to ever be in complete agreement with another poster on every single point regarding a case.
Varied opinions are wonderful, as is the free and open exchange of ideas.
Once an opinion is voiced, it is open to examination, and scrutiny, and challenge.
That is also an important part of what we do here, as it helps to ensure that opinions are shaped by facts and logic.

I definitely understand that it can be hard not to personalize when someone doesn't agree with your position or thought process about a case.
People here are not "hitting back" when they disagree about an aspect of the case.
They are voicing their own opinions, and hopefully citing facts that support those opinions.

This is one of the most positive, cohesive, respectful threads that I've participated in since I joined WS.

There's a lot of healthy debate here.


JMO.

Amen. Well said, GK!

 

[Uninformant]

Well, it was either right before or just after she went to the store so I don't see how she would have been without her phone. Imo

Or right after she was killed and someone else sent it as a signal. She’d just talked to him on the phone twice and seen him in person as she was carrying in what she bought at the store. Seems like the topic would have come up then.

 

[Mom24]

I'm confused. By accusations, are you talking about the DHS interviews? If so, the motion was filed March 20. I don't think we know when the accusations were made? Sorry if I've misunderstood. MOO

Yes, sorry, I meant the DHS interview.

 

[Trocroc9]

Some of us have said this countless times. But go back to that supposed first solicitation. A friend/lover/family member/coworker, take your choice, solicits you to commit a murder for him because he hates this person, because she abuses his child, because he wants control, because she is in your way of happiness, take your pick, what do you say to that person?

Sweetie, I need to check my calendar. Sure I can do that. Let’s shoot for October and if that doesn’t work I will drive 800 miles again in November. But oh, I cannot get off on Thanksgiving, being a kind loving nurse and all.

All of us would run screaming like a house on fire straight to LE.

This woman is a cold hearted, jealous, in-heat dog. She just keeps trying to help him and even shares this with her friends.
Yes she is capable of murder. She is culpable of a lot of things.

But where did this idea of murder come from? Who had the most to gain? Who hates KB the most? Who had the relationship with her? Who told all the lies about the relationship?

Yes it was PF. The same one who solicited KK in the first place. He is in jail. She got caught trying to cover for him. She is horrible. He is the murderer.

Or somebody he hired.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Yet, in this day and age we have a significant portion of the population who believe chocolate milk comes from brown cows. Many people are not tech savvy, particularly in rural areas. Most people who commit murder fall well short of perfect planning, particularly if they have a personality disorder such as narcissism which might inhibit their ability to question their own judgment and see potential evidence from multiple vantage points. They can have tunnel vision and make what many others would consider to be stupid mistakes. Frankly, in my humble opinion, a man who murders his fiancé or wife is in most cases someone I assume to be stupid because statistics prove that LE will look hardest at the boyfriend/husband. Someone has to be darn lucky and/or brilliant to overcome that kind of microscope level investigation of their life. By most accounts, PF is neither lucky nor that terribly bright. He started acting guilty from the getgo. MOO.

Great post.

 

[MemPat]

Yet, in this day and age we have a significant portion of the population who believe chocolate milk comes from brown cows. Many people are not tech savvy, particularly in rural areas. Most people who commit murder fall well short of perfect planning, particularly if they have a personality disorder such as narcissism which might inhibit their ability to question their own judgment and see potential evidence from multiple vantage points. They can have tunnel vision and make what many others would consider to be stupid mistakes. Frankly, in my humble opinion, a man who murders his fiancé or wife is in most cases someone I assume to be stupid because statistics prove that LE will look hardest at the boyfriend/husband. Someone has to be darn lucky and/or brilliant to overcome that kind of microscope level investigation of their life. By most accounts, PF is neither lucky nor that terribly bright. He started acting guilty from the getgo. MOO.

Then you have to throw in how his "carefully thought-out" plans were interrupted by KK's reluctance to follow through. When someone who isn't bright to begin with starts operating on the fly, things can only go south.

 

[MemPat]

Yet, in this day and age we have a significant portion of the population who believe chocolate milk comes from brown cows. Many people are not tech savvy, particularly in rural areas. Most people who commit murder fall well short of perfect planning, particularly if they have a personality disorder such as narcissism which might inhibit their ability to question their own judgment and see potential evidence from multiple vantage points. They can have tunnel vision and make what many others would consider to be stupid mistakes. Frankly, in my humble opinion, a man who murders his fiancé or wife is in most cases someone I assume to be stupid because statistics prove that LE will look hardest at the boyfriend/husband. Someone has to be darn lucky and/or brilliant to overcome that kind of microscope level investigation of their life. By most accounts, PF is neither lucky nor that terribly bright. He started acting guilty from the getgo. MOO.

And don't forget the Flat Earthers who really, really believe!

 

[MsBetsy]

Or right after she was killed and someone else sent it as a signal. She’d just talked to him on the phone twice and seen him in person as she was carrying in what she bought at the store. Seems like the topic would have come up then.

True, but then again the text was typed in a complete sentence, which was characteristic of her. I think it was sent before they met in the alley. She was most likely killed after 1:30, at least an hour later, when PF returned to the house. Imo

 

[marchioness96]

The prosecution is the one who found the accusations PF made against KB. The accusations were made in March, so that would suggest to me that something happened in March to set him off. I had thought it was August, since that was the date he first began asking KK to kill KB, but instead we find out it was in March.
If I remember correctly, PF had told people that KB undermined him with his child and he was upset about that. With the way PF plays his game, I wonder if something happened in March, maybe the baby was hurt or injured while she was in his care and KB became concerned about his ability to take care of the baby while KB was at work.
Has it been stated anywhere when the custody papers were originally filled out by PF? And what in the world happened in March?

BBM. Where did you read that his accusations were in March, mom? I thought it was the motion that was filed March 20.
I may simply be confused.

 

[MassGuy]

BBM. Where did you read that his accusations were in March, mom? I thought it was the motion that was filed March 20.
I may simply be confused.

Yeah. That was the date the motion was filed.

We do not know when DHS became involved.

My guess is that it was in the summer, and not long before the solicitations began.

As soon as PF knew this effort was not going to be successful, he pivoted.

To murder.

 

[PommyMommy]

True, but then again the text was typed in a complete sentence, which was characteristic of her. I think it was sent before they met in the alley. She was most likely killed after 1:30, at least an hour later, when PF returned to the house. Imo

I'm not so sure about that. Her text about the pecans was at 12:41 and he was seen on video at the bank at 12:44. I think she sent it after he picked up the baby. I definitely agree that KB sent the text, though. MOO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I don't think she ever got the chance to make it. She sent that text shortly before she was murdered. Imo

I agree that she did not have a chance to make the sweet potato casserole. But just her mentioning that he should pick up perhaps the pecans, makes me think about the timeline.

Making a sweet potato casserole makes me think that they were planning to go out to someone else's house. Was that sweet potato casserole made? If it was not made, that means that they were not expected very soon wherever she was going. If that makes sense.

His brother got to his mother's house at 2:30. What time was everybody expected at his mother's house, as with my family, we all are supposed to be at the house at about the same time. And if not, the mother and brother would have known and told law enforcement what time everyone was expected? Or did they?

 

[Love Never Fails]

Or somebody he hired.

Okay then someone he hired. So you DO believe PF is guilty? Because if he hired someone to kill her, he is GUILTY of first degree murder himself.

So now we are getting somewhere. I actually thought of that at first. I was pretty sure it was a hit and he couldn’t speak up for fear the person would go after him. But that doesn’t explain the phone evidence. Another thing, why would KK testify against PF IF he hired someone? I mean your theory of a love triangle ends there. Why would he need to hide anymore?

I truly believe LE has more evidence than we know of and it points right at him.