CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #64

[gitana1]

I am not an attorney. This is my own opinion. This trial is a slam dunk that shatters the backboard.
It is this simple.
There has been nothing, absolutely nothing thus far to support PF did not kill KB. At all. Zero.

There has however been everything under the sun that supports that not only did PF kill KB, no one else but PF could have possibly killed her.

Bam. Well said.

 

[srg]

If anyone is thinking about committing the perfect murder, they should look no further than this case.

Basically just look at what PF did, and do the exact opposite.

Perfect crime right there.

Omg I’m loving your avatar and cannot stop cracking up! I want a coffee mug like that.

 

[iambarb2]

Do we know if DOSS informed the LE of this call 'content' before PF was in their headlights? Him saying that he knew KB was getting up for work each day...was telling.

not surprising to me as I've seen this in my horse world and women. Decent looking farriers are sometimes treated like 'Gods' similar to how doctors are in a medical setting.
There are many single women who own horses
and have farms and the farrier comes to visit every 5-6 weeks. Someone like PF who likes
to share his personal problems w/ nuturing
horse women is likely to attract many, many
single women.
Being a farrier to women owning horses is like
shooting fish in a barrel if you're a philandering narcissist. I've seen it over and over in real life.

 

[MassGuy]

Sam might be the fastest typer I’ve ever heard.
He’s typing like a courtroom stenographer on his Facebook Live.

 

[scdiv]

- Scheduling issues... down to the last few witnesses... should be scheduled to wrap up on Friday... and defense anticipates their closing arguments on Friday...
- sounds like judge is going to give them each an hour for closing arguments
- talked off the record about an upcoming witness

-Lindsay Root??... CBI... expert in things like body fluids, blood, semen, saliva, etc..
- not trained in DNA analysis
- items collected from KB's townhome.. like a hairbrush, etc... swabs from things to assemble a dna kit for her colleague to analyze
- cross... that she tested one item on December (11??) that tested positive for blood and he asked if that could be menstrual blood..
- sam's comments.. the presence of blood alone is not enough to determine evidence of a murder... that's what defense was getting at, if blood on toilet could be menstrual, that KB was on her period on that time (sorry), but that is not something that CBI tests for
- defense noted a bunch of negative tests on things like washing machine etc
- but on redirect it was pointed out that the negative tests were on items from PF's home. the positive test results came from items from KB's home
- speeding through witnesses... and sorry, so is Sam, so I am missing things here and there... but hopefully this helps an outline to go back and check a fact

Server is being slow...
- PF told of rights about testifying, asked if he understood... he said yes... he doesn't have to make that decision until after state rests their case..

- The women who sold the house to KB... she had a specially made toxin free, wood floor made in Sweden installed in that house that kind of snapped in... women had lived there for 26 years.. the woman had thin skin that would easily bleed...
- no cross, no jury questions, excused and released...

- state called Diane Vance?? France?? - sam says she seemed like a really cool person.. forensic anthropologist... looks at things like skeletons to determine age, etc.. entered as an expert.. sits on an organizational board that sets standards for everything forensics... that was started basically in conjunction with the Innocence Project
- algorithms to search a landfill... was available to review anything found that could be human remains
- found lots of chicken bones... no human bones
- she's written 3 books on distinguishing human bones from animal bones
- the tooth fragments... larger fragment and smaller piece.. she said clearly a tooth based on enamel and something else... they sent her photo then actually sent her the tooth. determined it was consistent with a human tooth.
- wore gloves during her exam to make sure she didn't put dna on it
- on cross, defense asked if she was 80% confident it was a human tooth, she said yes but she doesn't like using %
- could have been blunt force trauma or a certain type of light that could crack it
- on redirect, asked if there was anything inconsistent with a human tooth... Vance said no.. it was consistent. Yes, blunt force could include someone being hit with a baseball bat

Kaitlin (Caitlin?) Rogers (Rodgers?) - Sam says also a fascinating person..DNA expert... a forensics scientist specializing in DNA analysis.. very accomplished, experienced, someone who knows what she is talking about...
- DNA - our molecular footprint that makes us who we are..
- what makes up a dna profile

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

He’s too, too stupid to realize just how stupid he is! And, that’s the truth

He's probably still trying to figure out how he got caught.

 

[scdiv]

Sam notes,,,

Caitlin Roger (?) the dna expert...
- 4 steps... heat and chemicals to release and extract dna... quanify how much male dna is in sample... chain reaction technique... makes millions of copies of area of interest...pcr... loads the copies on to a genetic analyzer... produces a graph and use that to compare to other known samples...
- buccal swabs... 15 people were used for references...
- KB's mouth guard was used as a reference for Kelsey's dna
- buccal swabs for the previous home owner, for baby K, for Kelsey's family - brother, mom, dad; KK, PF... didn't say the rest but that's about half..

 

[crhedBngr]

I was so struck by PF texting that woman and telling her not to get "sassy" when she mentioned him not taking payment for shoeing her horses. Aside from how absurd and condescending it is, it was a brief glimpse of how controlling he is. I wonder if she found it cute or endearing. Ugh.

Sounds like something a parent would say to a child.

JMVHO.

 

[Only4Justice]

This guy is not the brightest star in the universe. As far as the life insurance goes, I'm rather surprised PF didn't show up at her workplace the day after Thanksgiving, expecting to collect his cash. "But, Sir, how do you know she's deceased?" "Well, exactly." Scholar Frazee, no kidding.

Secretly I'm kind of hoping he'll testify.

"There was no blood on my clothes. Because I undressed first, for the candle game."

"I couldn't afford her or the baby. And I didn't want to be tied down to just one woman. Plus I wanted her life insurance money, but you can't convict me! I had no motive!"

"I'm not a stalker! I have friends. Who stalk for me."

"Yes, I put the tote on the haystack, but I specifically told KK to "take care of the horses". She was SUPPOSED to make sure those bales got eaten. SHE should go to prison, not me!"

I don't mean to make light of evil. It's just all so heavy.

What's really lung-crushing about this case is that, even with court justice, there can be no REAL justice. A beautiful life is gone, and her family will bear that. Daily. A little girl has to grow up with the unfair burden of being her mother's placeholder in the world. She will be adored but there will always be that sadness, in her heart, in her grandparents' hearts, in the faces of people who know her story. These miserable details about how KB died, and how she was buried/burned. There's no edge to grief like that.

From the sounds of it, KB was a kind, gentle, good soul. Well-respected, hard-working. Esteemed by those around her. I hope that, in the midst of this nightmare, her family can find some comfort moving forward.

I think we ALL hope that, going forward, PF feels NOTHING BUT discomfort. For a hundred lifetimes.

My thoughts only.

i agree. I can’t just say justice is done. I only pray that monsters like this guy have a higher power to answer to.

 

[skyedaze]

I read the media no discussion thread out of self defense tonight..whew!
Thanks to everyone here who helps out and gets everything updated!!!
(((hug!)))

 

[GKPShausta]

I'm a newby and have been following this case closely, we lived for many years just outside of Woodland Park. I would think there would've been DNA on the outside of the tote, putting a body inside wouldn't be an easy process plus the dog hit on where the tote was supposedly placed in the driveway of CBs condo if I remember right. Maybe the DNA degraded while the tote was sitting on the hay but the dog could still smell it. I sure hate to hear no DNA from the hay or the tooth.

 

[MassGuy]

Ok I don’t think this was reported earlier.

The blood on the couch, and the two chairs that were being used as a tv stand, all tested positive for Kelsey’s DNA.

What’s enlightening, is that pretty much all the samples being discussed have unknown contributors (in much smaller amounts).

This would severely damage any contention by the defense that the unknown male DNA in the bathroom is relevant.

It’s just a super common phenomenon.

 

[scdiv]

Sam notes...

- 119 evidence items sent to the dna lab
- the bathroom sample, very strong indication that it was KB's blood... he gets more into the math... main importance is that the profile is KB's... the bathroom toilet blood sample.. also likely to be KB's blood
- the sample from fireplace... dna analysis... showed partial dna profile for a single source and that source was found to be KB as the main contributor...
- the baby gate... the analysis here was a little different bc they had the entire gate... looked for red/brown staining... tested positive for blood... collected dna from it... dna analysis showed it was KB's blood... like a gazillion infinity times likely (my term... but that's essentially what those numbers mean...) to be KB's blood
- the floor boards.... in the house in general, were small blood spots, but when you looked between the floor boards... there was A LOT more of that reddish brownish stain... was likely to be KB's blood... and also the previous home owner's...

Important: when it's a mixture of two people you can't tell whose dna is blood and whose is touch... it could be the home owner's touch dna.. but KB's blood... and it is not surprising the original home owner's dna is there...

- she noted that bleach destroys dna... which is what KK said she used to clean up crime scene...
- torn up floor bloods tested positive for blood... shows 3 contributors including one male... a gazillion times more likely to have originated from KB and two unknown individuals... more numbers/odds given. But KB and original home owner the most likely
- did not detect human dna on the hay bales
- the tooth fragment.. it was photographed before it was dna analyzed... very tiny... swabbed the exterior and top for dna... test for saliva was negative... not enough dna to test for profile... human dna was detected.. male dna was not... so a female human tooth but not enough for a profile
- combustive testing.. .your sample is soo small that trying to test it for dna will destroy your entire sample...
- mitochondrial testing.. doesn't narrow down to a specific person
- fbi did that testing.. insufficient to determine.. FBI ground it down to a powder dust to test from that but could get not get enough dna to tell
- tried to swab for nuclear dna but did not yield any results
- spot of possible blood on right chair of chairs being used for stand in living room... dna mix revealed 3 people... likely KB and two others..
- trace DNA... just talking near an item can leave a profile in that spot!!
- left chair in living room.. positive for blood... one for sure is KB... all the other reference samples excluded... no PF, KK, etc
- leather couch... blood was positive... single source profile... Kelsey
- top of left chair used for tv stand.. spot of possible blood... positive.. dna shows mix of 2 people and 1 male... definitely KB... and all other references excluded... so no PF.. could have been anyone
- floor boards... just a ton of them, all from living room... 2 contributors... KB and last home owner before Kelsey.. dna that was taken and swabbed from the flood boards which locked together..
- another positive test for blood.. showed 3 contributors.. extremely likely to be KB... likely Cheryl and previous home owner... brother Clint also included but likely because he shares a lot of dna with KB and Cheryl

 

[scdiv]

Sam notes...

- last part of floor boards... about 7 separate pieces locked together...showed KB... previous home owner.. no other references found. Extremely strong matches as positive for blood.
- Effect of bleach on DNA... rogers said that it destroys dna. in fact, bleach is actually what they use in their lab to clean the dna so that it doesn't leave any in the testing area.

That concludes Sam's notes...time for Sam to take some questions

 

[katydid23]

agree. this was the first thing i noticed about his lack of concern.

It's one of the first things I noticed too. He held her like she was a loaf of bread---carelessly and awkwardly. It bothered me.

 

[scdiv]

I was so struck by PF texting that woman and telling her not to get "sassy" when she mentioned him not taking payment for shoeing her horses. Aside from how absurd and condescending it is, it was a brief glimpse of how controlling he is. I wonder if she found it cute or endearing. Ugh.

I think this is his idea of foreplay. Where's my vom emoticon?

 

[MassGuy]

Sam doesn’t think Sheila is going to testify, based on her intention to plead the Fifth at the preliminary.

 

[scdiv]

Ok I don’t think this was reported earlier.

The blood on the couch, and the two chairs that were being used as a tv stand, all tested positive for Kelsey’s DNA.

What’s enlightening, is that pretty much all the samples being discussed have unknown contributors (in much smaller amounts).

This would severely damage any contention by the defense that the unknown male DNA in the bathroom is relevant.

It’s just a super common phenomenon.

Exactly. They said just TALKING near an item can leave trace DNA on it. And that once even touch/trace dna is mixed with another contributor's blood, you can't tell whose is what.

 

[scdiv]

Sam might be the fastest typer I’ve ever heard.
He’s typing like a courtroom stenographer on his Facebook Live.

NO KIDDING!!! I can't keep up!!!

 

[MassGuy]

Exactly. They said just TALKING near an item can leave trace DNA on it. And that once even touch/trace dna is mixed with another contributor's blood, you can't tell whose is what.

Yeah, this was new to me. I mean, I knew that, but I didn’t realize just how common it is with every sample.

It’s smoke and mirrors if the defense tries to claim that it’s relevant.