GUILTY CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #69

[Warwick7]

Yah, not enough room between door and PF, plus you can see the brown of the door between his legs.

Also, i saw this asked earlier. So clarifying for whoever asked.

PF showed up a few minutes before KB showed up from Safeway. He went inside and then came right back out and then I assume waited for her to show up from Safeway and walked in with her.

Obviously he's bringing in something at this point that he doesn't want her to know about etc.

Agreed!!

 

[Megnut]

Trying to put this together....

KB gets home from the Walmart/medicibe/ranch run at 4ish in the morning....with the baby?

When is she at Safeway? She's there with the baby.

But somewhere in this, PF picks up the baby so KB can nap. Before noon or after.

Game of Musical Baby Chairs?

How many times did KB and PF meet up from midnight forward???? And who had the baby?

When I try to enlarge the evidence timeline, it's all blurry. Not unlike my brain.

As far as I can piece it together, there's ZERO reason PF should've been entering her townhouse alone, at 12:30ish.

IF that's a bat, wrapped in a sweater/sweatshirt, IF he took it inside, IF he brought it upstairs to hide it, perhaps that was the item he had to go back upstairs to retrieve. I still think the candle game happened upstairs -- I swear I recall KK saying she had to clean blood from the candles, UPSTAIRS, having been directed by PF to do so.

Was his real motive, the sorriest of sorry motives, simply to avoid paying child support? He knew he didn't want to be in the relationship, he knew she was cutting back on hours, and benefits. No doubt he sold himself -- inclusive package and all -- as well enough off. With KB planning their future, cutting back on hours, pay, and benefits, his lies were suddenly coming home to roost.

I think, when he said he wanted to raise the baby "with someone else", he wanted to find another girl WHO MADE A LOT MONEY and would support him. What a sorry excuse of a man.

MOO MOO MOO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I'm gonna go to Lowes tomorrow and look at one. On review says it's good for horse tack. Sturdy and lightweight. I can't see how much it weighs.

So I think a defense argument was that you never saw him remove the tote from her home. Well it WAS in the truck beforehand..and there it is at her door...and there are photos of it in the truck later..in a different spot. This photo shows he took it from the truck to her home.
We all know this anyway, but this proves it.
He took this thing in her home while she was at Walmart?

I looked this tote up - it apparently only weighs 5 pounds. PF was a fairly tall fit guy when these photos were taken. He could have easily lifted the empty tote on end with one hand.

I did also lol, and indeed, in the comment section of Q&A 5 lbs. https://www.lowes.com/pd/COMMANDER-53-Gallon-212-Quart-Black-Tote-with-Latching-Lid/1000341107

And from gazette.com photo evidence, the one at the Franch below

 

[k-mac]

View attachment 217345 View attachment 217346
Call me crazy, but could this be a tote in front of him and he's holding it vertical with his left hand does using locking the door that is right??

thanks warwick7 for these two pics.
if you look at the tote pic it has a shelf like handle that sits out from the tote.
the pic of that thing under PFs hand appears to have that shelf like ledge.(tote on side handle up)


moo

 

[Megnut]

Trying to put this together....

KB gets home from the Walmart/medicibe/ranch run at 4ish in the morning....with the baby?

When is she at Safeway? She's there with the baby.

But somewhere in this, PF picks up the baby so KB can nap. Before noon or after.

Game of Musical Baby Chairs?

How many times did KB and PF meet up from midnight forward???? And who had the baby?

When I try to enlarge the evidence timeline, it's all blurry. Not unlike my brain.

As far as I can piece it together, there's ZERO reason PF should've been entering her townhouse alone, at 12:30ish.

IF that's a bat, wrapped in a sweater/sweatshirt, IF he took it inside, IF he brought it upstairs to hide it, perhaps that was the item he had to go back upstairs to retrieve. I still think the candle game happened upstairs -- I swear I recall KK saying she had to clean blood from the candles, UPSTAIRS, having been directed by PF to do so.

Was his real motive, the sorriest of sorry motives, simply to avoid paying child support? He knew he didn't want to be in the relationship, he knew she was cutting back on hours, and benefits. No doubt he sold himself -- inclusive package and all -- as well enough off. With KB planning their future, cutting back on hours, pay, and benefits, his lies were suddenly coming home to roost.

I think, when he said he wanted to raise the baby "with someone else", he wanted to find another girl WHO MADE A LOT MONEY and would support him. What a sorry excuse of a man.

MOO MOO MOO

 

[MemPat]

I've got a funny feeling KKL knows she's going away for 3 yrs. May as well let it grow out. Bleaching hair might be really pricey where she's going. She's paying a hefty amount to that attorney of hers!

I wonder if KK's parents mortgaged their ranch to finance her attorneys.

I'd be surprised if she was independently wealthy.

I realize she didn't have all the billable hours of trial attorneys but this can't have been cheap.

 

[esayer]

Ok, I just watched the videos of KL walking around with the investigators.

Why does she sniff like that all the time? Is that her way of “crying”? WTH

She has tourettes or something like a tic, at least that's the rumor I've seen floating around.

 

[margarita25]

I did also lol, and indeed, in the comment section of Q&A 5 lbs. https://www.lowes.com/pd/COMMANDER-53-Gallon-212-Quart-Black-Tote-with-Latching-Lid/1000341107

And from gazette.com photo evidence, the one at the Franch below

View attachment 217380 View attachment 217380

(For reference:

53 Gallon
Depth (Inches) 41.25
Width (Inches) 25.13
Height (Inches) 20.63)

 

[Kapua]

I can see myself playing a nonsense game so the candle game is believable. I've done it with gkids.
With my ex? Nah! Lol

In San Francisco, at the Exploratorium (a quirky interactive museum), there is a small exhibit of little squeeze bottles. You squeeze the bottle close to your nose and guess the scent. The actual scent is on a little sticker on the bottom of the bottle. It's a more sophisticated version of the candle game.

 

[MemPat]

I knew KB would have covered the cinnamon rolls. (I know, not the rolls again!) That was a clue that KB did not leave voluntarily, along with both of her vehicles and the suitcase remaining at/in her condo. MOO

Oh, no! The most discussed pastries in the history of WS!
See this line?:
_________________________________________________________________________

Nobody gets to mention the -------- ----- on this side of it!

You're welcome.

 

[Kapua]

I thought there was no blood on the candles. I was thinking he went up there to get her purse or phone or something.

Maybe her bedroom has a door she could close and lock. MOO

 

[Kapua]

Oh, no! The most discussed pastries in the history of WS!
See this line?:
_________________________________________________________________________

Nobody gets to mention the -------- ----- on this side of it!

You're welcome.

LOL!

 

[Megnut]

If he brought the tote out through the garage, I bet he wouldn't have been caught on the surveillance camera.

I didn't see one in the video walk through -- is there an interior door connecting the house and the garage?????

MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

Trying to put this together....

KB gets home from the Walmart/medicibe/ranch run at 4ish in the morning....with the baby?

When is she at Safeway? She's there with the baby.

But somewhere in this, PF picks up the baby so KB can nap. Before noon or after.

Game of Musical Baby Chairs?

How many times did KB and PF meet up from midnight forward???? And who had the baby?

When I try to enlarge the evidence timeline, it's all blurry. Not unlike my brain.

As far as I can piece it together, there's ZERO reason PF should've been entering her townhouse alone, at 12:30ish.

IF that's a bat, wrapped in a sweater/sweatshirt, IF he took it inside, IF he brought it upstairs to hide it, perhaps that was the item he had to go back upstairs to retrieve. I still think the candle game happened upstairs -- I swear I recall KK saying she had to clean blood from the candles, UPSTAIRS, having been directed by PF to do so.

Was his real motive, the sorriest of sorry motives, simply to avoid paying child support? He knew he didn't want to be in the relationship, he knew she was cutting back on hours, and benefits. No doubt he sold himself -- inclusive package and all -- as well enough off. With KB planning their future, cutting back on hours, pay, and benefits, his lies were suddenly coming home to roost.

I think, when he said he wanted to raise the baby "with someone else", he wanted to find another girl WHO MADE A LOT MONEY and would support him. What a sorry excuse of a man.

MOO MOO MOO

BBM This timeline isn't blurry. MOO

Inside the Patrick Frazee Trial
[...]

He used all this information to compile multiple timelines, which he printed on big white boards for the trial. ...

... timeline from Nov. 22:

-12:22-12:31 a.m.: Frazee’s and Berreth’s cell phones signaled together west of Cripple Creek.
-1:18 a.m., 1:19 a.m., 1:20 p.m.: Berreth’s phone called Frazee’s phone. He didn’t answer the first two, but answered the third. All phones pinged off the Florissant tower.
-1:29 a.m.: Berreth’s phone called Frazee’s phone and it connected for 20 seconds. Her phone was in Divide and his was in Florissant.
-1:35 a.m.: Frazee’s landline called Kenney’s cell phone. It went to voicemail.
-1:42 a.m.: Berreth’s phone called Frazee’s cell. The call lasted four minutes. Berreth was in Woodland Park and Frazee was still in Florissant.
-3:33 p.m. and 3:34 p.m.: Berreth tried to call Frazee and then he tried to call her. Both phones are in Florissant.
-3:37 a.m. until 3:53 a.m.: Frazee’s cell and Berreth’s cell send multiple text messages back and forth.
-9:03 a.m.: Berreth’s phone called Cheryl Berreth (Kelsey Berreth’s mother) for about six minutes. Her phone was in Woodland Park.
-9:25 a.m.: Berreth’s phone texted Frazee’s cell asking to go eat. Around this same time, Cheryl Berreth called Kelsey Berreth’s phone and they talked for about six minutes
-9:37 a.m.: Berreth’s phone sent Frazee a text asking him to call her when he woke up
-9:40 a.m.: Frazee’s phone called Berreth’s phone. His phone was in Florissant and her phone was in Woodland Park
-12:24 p.m.: Commercial surveillance captured Berreth and Kaylee at the Woodland Park Safeway
-12:30 p.m.: Williams Furniture showed Frazee’s truck traveling north toward Berreth’s home
-12:31 p.m.: Frazee called Berreth’s phone. Both were in Woodland Park
-12:31 p.m.: Berreth’s red Chevy traveled north toward her home, as seen on the Williams Furniture camera
-12:33 p.m.: Berreth called Frazee
-12:38 p.m.: Frazee’s truck drove south away from Berreth’s home
-12:41 p.m.: Berreth texted Frazee saying she bought the sweet potatoes
-12:44-12:50 p.m.: Frazee was spotted in his truck at the Woodland Park Ent
-12:52 p.m.: Frazee and Kaylee were seen at the Walmart
-1:19 p.m.: Frazee’s truck drove north toward Berreth’s home, as seen on the Williams Furniture surveillance
-1:24 p.m.: Frazee, Berreth and Kaylee were seen at Berreth’s front door, as seen on her neighbor’s outdoor cameras
-4:20-4:32 p.m.: A camera captured Frazee at Berreth’s door
-4:24 p.m.: Frazee’s landline called Sheila. His phone was in Woodland Park
-4:34 p.m.: Frazee’s red pickup truck drove south toward Highway 24
-4:37 p.m.: Frazee called Kenney. Frazee’s phone was still in Woodland Park. It went to voicemail
-4:39 p.m.: Frazee texted Kenney to wish her a happy Thanksgiving and asked her to call him when she can.
-4:43 p.m.: Kenney’s cell called Frazee and they talked for about two minutes, 21 seconds. Her phone was in Idaho. His phone was just west of Divide.
-4:50 p.m.: Frazee called Kenney and they talked for four more minutes. His cell phone had moved to the east side of Florissant. Within seconds, Berreth’s phone signaled in the same place.
-5:32 p.m.: Berreth’s phone sent an iMessage to Cheryl Berreth about going shooting that day because Frazee was letting her keep her gun. Prosecutors said they believe Frazee sent this text to Cheryl.
-8:29 p.m.: Frazee’s landline called Kenney, who was still in Idaho. They talked for 47 minutes
-9:32 p.m.: Frazee’s landline called Kenney’s phone again and it was sent to voicemail
-9:25 p.m.: Kenney’s phone texted Frazee’s cell saying happy Thanksgiving
-10:03-10:58 p.m.: Frazee’s and Berreth’s phones appear to be traveling together
-11:11 p.m.: Frazee’s phone signaled in Florissant
-11:30 p.m.: Frazee’s landline called Kenney and they talked for 51 minutes

[...]

 

[Warwick7]

Yah, not enough room between door and PF, plus you can see the brown of the door between his legs.

Also, i saw this asked earlier. So clarifying for whoever asked.

PF showed up a few minutes before KB showed up from Safeway. He went inside and then came right back out and then I assume waited for her to show up from Safeway and walked in with her.

Obviously he's bringing in something at this point that he doesn't want her to know about etc.

Agreed!!

thanks warwick7 for these two pics.
if you look at the tote pic it has a shelf like handle that sits out from the tote.
the pic of that thing under PFs hand appears to have that shelf like ledge.(tote on side handle up)


moo

Yes, and we don't have clarification on if this tote were identical to the remaining ones on the French.

 

[esayer]

Trying to put this together....

KB gets home from the Walmart/medicibe/ranch run at 4ish in the morning....with the baby?

When is she at Safeway? She's there with the baby.

But somewhere in this, PF picks up the baby so KB can nap. Before noon or after.

Game of Musical Baby Chairs?

How many times did KB and PF meet up from midnight forward???? And who had the baby?

When I try to enlarge the evidence timeline, it's all blurry. Not unlike my brain.

As far as I can piece it together, there's ZERO reason PF should've been entering her townhouse alone, at 12:30ish.

IF that's a bat, wrapped in a sweater/sweatshirt, IF he took it inside, IF he brought it upstairs to hide it, perhaps that was the item he had to go back upstairs to retrieve. I still think the candle game happened upstairs -- I swear I recall KK saying she had to clean blood from the candles, UPSTAIRS, having been directed by PF to do so.

Was his real motive, the sorriest of sorry motives, simply to avoid paying child support? He knew he didn't want to be in the relationship, he knew she was cutting back on hours, and benefits. No doubt he sold himself -- inclusive package and all -- as well enough off. With KB planning their future, cutting back on hours, pay, and benefits, his lies were suddenly coming home to roost.

I think, when he said he wanted to raise the baby "with someone else", he wanted to find another girl WHO MADE A LOT MONEY and would support him. What a sorry excuse of a man.

MOO MOO MOO

Yes, I believe you're right about the candle thing being upstairs and there were bloody footprints up there.

I've thought a lot about motive...I bet he has no problem killing large animals, dogs, cats...a person was probably no big deal for him. He also is very controlling and obviously a psycho, the way he very cavalierly just demands people go kill other people for him, first with KK and then the cellmate....Like people just say "I figured out a way to kill her" all the time in his mind? Like that wouldn't be a huge red flag?

He obviously is incapable of having a romantic relationship, and doesn't sound like he had any great friends, and he barely got along with his family...He's like Chris Watts, a narcissist, a psychopath, control freak, and thought he'd easily get away with this and no one would care Kelsey was gone.

He wanted 100% control over his daughter, and the only way he could do that was by killing Kelsey.

 

[PommyMommy]

If he brought the tote out through the garage, I bet he wouldn't have been caught on the surveillance camera.

I didn't see one in the video walk through -- is there an interior door connecting the house and the garage?????

MOO

There is no garage at KB's townhouse. MOO

 

[MemPat]

In San Francisco, at the Exploratorium (a quirky interactive museum), there is a small exhibit of little squeeze bottles. You squeeze the bottle close to your nose and guess the scent. The actual scent is on a little sticker on the bottom of the bottle. It's a more sophisticated version of the candle game.

Boy, that sounds like a perfect way to catch a communicable disease! What were they thinking?!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Agreed!!

Yes, and we don't have clarification on if this tote were identical to the remaining ones on the French.

IIRC, in the walk about video with KK at the Franch, she said they were identical.

 

[Warwick7]

BBM This timeline isn't blurry. MOO

Inside the Patrick Frazee Trial
[...]

He used all this information to compile multiple timelines, which he printed on big white boards for the trial. ...

... timeline from Nov. 22:

-12:22-12:31 a.m.: Frazee’s and Berreth’s cell phones signaled together west of Cripple Creek.
-1:18 a.m., 1:19 a.m., 1:20 p.m.: Berreth’s phone called Frazee’s phone. He didn’t answer the first two, but answered the third. All phones pinged off the Florissant tower.
-1:29 a.m.: Berreth’s phone called Frazee’s phone and it connected for 20 seconds. Her phone was in Divide and his was in Florissant.
-1:35 a.m.: Frazee’s landline called Kenney’s cell phone. It went to voicemail.
-1:42 a.m.: Berreth’s phone called Frazee’s cell. The call lasted four minutes. Berreth was in Woodland Park and Frazee was still in Florissant.
-3:33 p.m. and 3:34 p.m.: Berreth tried to call Frazee and then he tried to call her. Both phones are in Florissant.
-3:37 a.m. until 3:53 a.m.: Frazee’s cell and Berreth’s cell send multiple text messages back and forth.
-9:03 a.m.: Berreth’s phone called Cheryl Berreth (Kelsey Berreth’s mother) for about six minutes. Her phone was in Woodland Park.
-9:25 a.m.: Berreth’s phone texted Frazee’s cell asking to go eat. Around this same time, Cheryl Berreth called Kelsey Berreth’s phone and they talked for about six minutes
-9:37 a.m.: Berreth’s phone sent Frazee a text asking him to call her when he woke up
-9:40 a.m.: Frazee’s phone called Berreth’s phone. His phone was in Florissant and her phone was in Woodland Park
-12:24 p.m.: Commercial surveillance captured Berreth and Kaylee at the Woodland Park Safeway
-12:30 p.m.: Williams Furniture showed Frazee’s truck traveling north toward Berreth’s home
-12:31 p.m.: Frazee called Berreth’s phone. Both were in Woodland Park
-12:31 p.m.: Berreth’s red Chevy traveled north toward her home, as seen on the Williams Furniture camera
-12:33 p.m.: Berreth called Frazee
-12:38 p.m.: Frazee’s truck drove south away from Berreth’s home
-12:41 p.m.: Berreth texted Frazee saying she bought the sweet potatoes
-12:44-12:50 p.m.: Frazee was spotted in his truck at the Woodland Park Ent
-12:52 p.m.: Frazee and Kaylee were seen at the Walmart
-1:19 p.m.: Frazee’s truck drove north toward Berreth’s home, as seen on the Williams Furniture surveillance
-1:24 p.m.: Frazee, Berreth and Kaylee were seen at Berreth’s front door, as seen on her neighbor’s outdoor cameras
-4:20-4:32 p.m.: A camera captured Frazee at Berreth’s door
-4:24 p.m.: Frazee’s landline called Sheila. His phone was in Woodland Park
-4:34 p.m.: Frazee’s red pickup truck drove south toward Highway 24
-4:37 p.m.: Frazee called Kenney. Frazee’s phone was still in Woodland Park. It went to voicemail
-4:39 p.m.: Frazee texted Kenney to wish her a happy Thanksgiving and asked her to call him when she can.
-4:43 p.m.: Kenney’s cell called Frazee and they talked for about two minutes, 21 seconds. Her phone was in Idaho. His phone was just west of Divide.
-4:50 p.m.: Frazee called Kenney and they talked for four more minutes. His cell phone had moved to the east side of Florissant. Within seconds, Berreth’s phone signaled in the same place.
-5:32 p.m.: Berreth’s phone sent an iMessage to Cheryl Berreth about going shooting that day because Frazee was letting her keep her gun. Prosecutors said they believe Frazee sent this text to Cheryl.
-8:29 p.m.: Frazee’s landline called Kenney, who was still in Idaho. They talked for 47 minutes
-9:32 p.m.: Frazee’s landline called Kenney’s phone again and it was sent to voicemail
-9:25 p.m.: Kenney’s phone texted Frazee’s cell saying happy Thanksgiving
-10:03-10:58 p.m.: Frazee’s and Berreth’s phones appear to be traveling together
-11:11 p.m.: Frazee’s phone signaled in Florissant
-11:30 p.m.: Frazee’s landline called Kenney and they talked for 51 minutes

[...]

@PommyMommy
Pommy I luv your timeline.
:0)
1. Is Ent the ATM?
2. I'm confused about PF's Wal-Mart snap shot with the baby...

KB doesn't even get back with Walmart groceries and poinsettia until 1:24pm

Did I miss something? Or is my mind running away with itself that there is no baby in that carrier with PF...