CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #15

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    The difference now is we have a defendant who is telling his story about what happened. He has not been found guilty so since he is the only witness and he says Shanann killed their two children then we have to allow discussion on whether this is true or not. If a member wishes to believe Chris Watts is telling the truth then we must respectfully let that person express their opinion as long as it is within TOS.

    Please alert if you see a post that violates our terms of service. It is not a violation of our TOS if someone expresses that she/he believes Shanann murdered her children. Until we have a guilty verdict or until Chris Watts changes his story we will allow discussion on this topic.

    Thanks,
    Tricia
     
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  3. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Hey Everyone,

    A bit of clarification.

    Please, no more discussion on the viability of Shanann's company or whether her company was or wasn't a pyramid scheme. No more digging up documents or complaints or anything to do with the function of the company. The fact is Shanann's company is not what we are discussing.

    If want to discuss if job stress may have contributed to Shanann and Chris' relationship problems please make sure it is in the realm of reality and not the Twilight Zone.

    Thank you,
    Tricia
     
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  4. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Good Morning Wonderful Websleuths Posters and Guests,

    Here is a new thread for the Watts Case.

    Take Care,
    Tricia
     
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  5. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

    Evidence of triple murder:

    1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

    2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

    3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

    4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
    a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
    b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

    5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

    6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
    In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

    7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

    8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

    9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

    10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

    11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
    A Global History of Child Death

    12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

    13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

    14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

    15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

    16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

    17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

    18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

    19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

    20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

    21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

    22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

    23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

    24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

    25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

    A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

    D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

    A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


    E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

    Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

    https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Here is your new thread for the Watts case
     
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  7. Herat

    Herat Well-Known Member

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    NanZDrew posted this on Thread #14 last night and I think it is something for LE to nail down: ( and thanks so much to NanzDrew for the insights into the oil & gas industry & the operational characteristics of these wells & tanks)

    "When we were going to clean a tank, our techs would go and loosen the bolts beforehand and put a spray chemical to dissolve corrosion if necessary. My guess would be that he did this step ahead of time."

    Ahead of time...... likely CW would have known how this works and how to do it without having to call a tech in to do it. He didn't really have a lot of time that am to fool around with rusted shut bolts on two tanks AND dig a grave.

    I'd assume he would have access to all the spray chemicals, wrenches to fit the bolts, etc. This could certainly have been something he did in advance. I wonder if Anakanko's truck GPS documents him visiting this well in the week or so prior to the murders? ie: PREMEDITATION
     
  8. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Brilliant summary, helpful to all of us -- especially to those coming into this case late, and a lot of good work.
    Many, many thanks to you, Gypsy girl. You are an inspiration and a wonder!
    xo
     
  9. NuttMegg

    NuttMegg Well-Known Member

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  10. SweetPeas56

    SweetPeas56 Well-Known Member

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    Some speculation, thoughts swimming around in my mind so they seem unconnected on their own, and maybe the connections I'm seeing are because I'm grasping at straws....no links, not a pro, can't diagnose anyone with anything... MOO....

    1. I once met a person who said he was diagnosed with a sexual obsessive compulsive disorder. He had obsessive thoughts of a sexual nature. His compulsive behavior was of a sexual nature, which led him to have marital problems, affairs, and even some peeping Tom behavior.

    2. I read that CW and SW appeared very in love and couldn't keep hands off each other. I read that in one of these threads somewhere. They obviously had activities going on, as they have two daughters very close in age, and a third was on the way.

    3. Christian Longo said that he decided hours in advance, but when he started killing his family, it was an "oh now seems like a good time" thing. He was bothered by strangling his little one, but continued because he had already started the process and it was too late to stop. It's sickening to read about . Painful . He killed his family, supposedly because he had failed and wanted to start over .

    4. I'm still on the fence about the male affair guy from AB. Waiting.

    Is it possible that CW has a sexual compulsion/appetite, hetero or bi, that drove him to cheat while also being completely attracted to SW?

    Then....maybe....

    .... he became emotionally attached to an AP and pulled away from his family (therefore noticeably distant)

    Or

    ...he enjoyed the freedom of his summer and didn't want it to end

    Or

    ....he was going to be exposed as a "failure" (at least in his mind) due to financial issues and/or affair discovery

    ...Maybe he found out he had an STD and didn't want Shanann to go to her doc appt Monday morning. My cheating ex once deleted a voicemail from my gyno telling me to call back. They were just letting me know everything was normal, but my ex's guilty conscience made him worry .


    Maybe he decided to kill his family weeks in advance but without a solid plan and something made him go "now is the time!" But lack of solid plan meant his cover up was a little shoddy . Plus NU/NA showed up.

    One thing I'm convinced of is that NU/NA showing up and not backing off RUINED CW'S DAY! Her concern for her friend and the kiddos made her bite down like an attack dog and not let go. I'm convinced her actions saved the investigation, and for that, I love her!

    Anyway, this has been long and rambling. I apologise!

    Edited to correct typos.
     
  11. amysmom

    amysmom Well-Known Member

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    According to the timeline presented by AB last night I have little doubt that CW dumped the girls before SW arrived home & also had already dug her grave..I hope it can be proven at trial just how PREMEDIATATED these horrific murders were!
     
  12. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    @CFlo
    I found a source for the Amazon Alexa, and have added it to the list for the first floor. Crime & Justice on Twitter

    FIRST FLOOR
    1. Shoes at the front door
    2. Door latch in place on front door
    3. Suitcase at bottom of the stairs
    4. Purse on the kitchen island
    5. Pillowcases and top sheet in kitchen trash can
    6. Car in the garage with car seats in place
    7. Outside garage keypad not working
    8. All doors and windows were locked
    9. Wallet and medications were in the home (exact location unknown)
    10. Keys were in the car 'I hope it's a boy for him': Pregnant wife, weeks before husband allegedly killed her
    11. Family video shows an Amazon Alexa on the kitchen counter Crime & Justice on Twitter
    1-9 are from the affidavit.
    https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...18CR2003/001/Warrantless Arrest Affidavit.pdf
     
  13. Sleutherfly

    Sleutherfly Well-Known Member

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    Early on in these posts, some of us were afraid that men on the jury may be inclined to actually believe CW'S non-sensical theory. I think that fear is gone now as I don't see anyone else really defending him now. I think it just takes a bit of time for some (especially people who feel they can relate to CW) to come to terms and realize CW really is a monster.

    It doesn't seem we will get any new information on this case anytime soon since the investigators are being very quiet (for good reason). I do have a feeling that we may get some more information after the funeral though.

    I'm going to take a break from this forum for a while. Hope you all have a great long weekend.
     
  14. Whiteorchids

    Whiteorchids Well-Known Member

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    He probably completely enjoyed his time while she was away. He probably cheated up a storm daily with his coworker. I think he eventually took the girls around the lover. I’m sure the girls didn’t like whoever it was. Possibly the girls spilled the beans when mom got home?
     
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  15. amysmom

    amysmom Well-Known Member

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    She surely did RUIN CW's DAY but she SAVED the DAY for her friend & her two little girls..BRAVO! The dr's office may have called to see why SW missed her appt. but that would've done no good since CW is most likely the contact person..A good guess would be he'd say her plans changed & she was still out of town.
     
  16. CFlo

    CFlo Well-Known Member

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    Oh ty sweetie pie! This was driving me nuts because I knew I had seen a video.
    Thread was closed earlier this morning for me to respond back you from last night re: SW SM contents and your viewing thereof, so I typed an saved:
    I had peeked in a couple times, but last night I was looking for Alexa placement then what could’ve been in a bag (comforter, etc). So I was all up in her business on FB and IG.

    I started to feel like I was being very intrusive, which I know doesn’t make sense given he SM was not private, but that’s just how I felt, so had to bail. Plus, some of the videos are just heartbreaking given what happened.

    Digging in that deep and personal though, I did see a couple interesting or at least new to me things. One was a video in Feb 2018 talking about test driving cars. Mentioned a certain car wasn’t realistic for three kids, then changed it to two. Again, FEB of this year. IMO, it means they were actively trying at least at that time... at minimum, serious discussions of a third were occurring between the two of them. IMO.

    *This does not however change my stance that she was the one hesitant to have a 3rd. Purely from having a sister die from Lupus post 2nd pregnancy. It just took its toll on an already fragile body. She had to be talked into it, wish she hadn’t given in. But ultimately I know she could’ve also said no. Or, MOExperience could be clouding me a bit, I admit.
    Yes, I’m a little all over the place today :rolleyes:
     
  17. Tigerlily75

    Tigerlily75 Well-Known Member

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  18. amysmom

    amysmom Well-Known Member

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    I thought there was a good chance the girls may have spilled some beans but that was before I became convinced the MONSTER had already killed them before SW came home.
     
  19. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    BBM This is a good find! I'm making a note to look at this for sure. :)
     
  20. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    Thank you for mentioning this. I hadn't seen this video and was prompted by your post to go watch it. Here is a link for anyone who wants to see it.
     
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