CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #17

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    The difference now is we have a defendant who is telling his story about what happened. He has not been found guilty so since he is the only witness and he says Shanann killed their two children then we have to allow discussion on whether this is true or not. If a member wishes to believe Chris Watts is telling the truth then we must respectfully let that person express their opinion as long as it is within TOS.

    Please alert if you see a post that violates our terms of service. It is not a violation of our TOS if someone expresses that she/he believes Shanann murdered her children. Until we have a guilty verdict or until Chris Watts changes his story we will allow discussion on this topic.

    Thanks,
    Tricia
     
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  3. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Hey Everyone,

    A bit of clarification.

    Please, no more discussion on the viability of Shanann's company or whether her company was or wasn't a pyramid scheme. No more digging up documents or complaints or anything to do with the function of the company. The fact is Shanann's company is not what we are discussing.

    If want to discuss if job stress may have contributed to Shanann and Chris' relationship problems please make sure it is in the realm of reality and not the Twilight Zone.

    Thank you,
    Tricia
     
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  4. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

    Evidence of triple murder:

    1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

    2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

    3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

    4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
    a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
    b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

    5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

    6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
    In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

    7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

    8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

    9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

    10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

    11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
    A Global History of Child Death

    12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

    13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

    14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

    15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

    16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

    17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

    18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

    19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

    20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

    21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

    22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

    23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

    24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

    25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

    A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

    D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

    A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


    E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

    Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

    https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
     

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  5. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Here is your new thread for the Watts case. It will open Tuesday, Sept 4th by 8:30 AM Mountian time if not sooner.
     
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  6. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Good morning! The thread is open for posting.


    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

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    On the last thread, there were posts speculating about CW making sure SW saw the children deceased before he killed her - perhaps she checked on them and he watched her on the monitor.

    If that happened, it would be likely that she would put her hands on them trying to help them, which may be why he asked for DNA to be taken?? Maybe he even hid her phone in the couch so she couldn't find it to call 911.

    TBH, I suspect the kids were gone by the time SW arrived home (and maybe even in the tanks by then)....but this other scenario is a possibility to consider.

    jmo, speculation only
     
  8. HammyG

    HammyG Active Member

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    Going back through the threads is making my head spin, so I'm just going to ask for help... has anyone tried to enhance still images of CW from his TV interviews to determine if there are marks on his neck? One of the SM groups claim there are possible bite marks on CW, but I don't know how to get a still and enhance. TIA

    ETA: I don't trust the SM images not to be doctored, but I wondered if some trustworthy WSleuther has done this.
     
  9. Jennifer17

    Jennifer17 Former Member

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    Yes, that was done way back.
     
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  10. tjredline

    tjredline Well-Known Member

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    There is a image here but I can't remember which thread it was on. Maybe #15 towards the middle/end. Hopefully someone can be of better assistance.
     
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  11. Shekkiec

    Shekkiec Well-Known Member

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    I’m wondering about the dog check . Do we know time ? The neighbor’s had mentioned the dog was howling since time they “disappeared” (were murdered) .
    1. Was wellness check while cops there to investigate scene or separate call ?
    2. If they could hear dog , could they not hear perhaps the screams of someone being murdered ? Especially SW IMO she would have fought if she saw children dead or attack .
    So perhaps he waited till she was in bed or attacked her upon entrance startling her. He may have given the children benedryl to subdue them . The children had allergies so probably had it at home . And attacked her before she could check them or attacked her in bed to gain better positioning on her and then went to children . The fact the neighbors heard dog but no humans maybe means something .
     
  12. Davia18

    Davia18 Verified Human

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    It was done but I didn't see any bit marks. Maybe a scratch on the neck and on his lip. Hard to really tell though.
     
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  13. pinkie60

    pinkie60 Well-Known Member

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    Gee from both wanting a baby in may and conceiving in June things sure went downhill fast. since he did so much to help out, I think It would be hard for Shanann to go on alone caring for 2 kids being pregnant and her business. I thought is there. Some way they could have gained financially by being separated and the separation scenario was really a sham

    <mod tried to repair broken quote>
     
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  14. MJPeony

    MJPeony Well-Known Member

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    I remember seeing the enlarged photo here as well. No idea which thread at this point, sorry. So not very helpful just to have my opinion without you even seeing the photo, but FWIW the mark people were talking about was what could maybe be called a "u-shaped" image that on the left side of his neck. Someone said it looked like upper teeth shape, but I personally thought it was too narrow.

    Also, CW looked (disturbingly) clean shaven and preened, so I find it hard to think he wouldn't have noticed that if it were a defense wound of some kind. Perhaps he would have chosen a different shirt to model if so.... :mad:
     
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  15. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Well-Known Member

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    It has occurred to me that what if what they thought was a "dog howling" was actually a person crying or wailing?
     
  16. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

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    OMG. What a thought.

    We should be able to confirm....anyone know when the neighbors said they heard the dog? Before or after he left that morning?

    jmo
     
  17. Jennifer17

    Jennifer17 Former Member

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    After he left.
     
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  18. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

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    Whew.

    The howling was indeed the dog.
     
  19. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

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    Quoting myself.

    The dog is another example of how CW was sloppy with the crime. He probably forgot to feed the dog and/or left the dog outdoors....or something out of the ordinary. The dog probably was stressed because of the happenings in the household, yet CW did nothing to make sure the dog remained quiet.

    jmopinion at the moment
     
  20. Jennifer17

    Jennifer17 Former Member

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    IIRC, the dog was locked in the garage.
     
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