Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #21

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    The difference now is we have a defendant who is telling his story about what happened. He has not been found guilty so since he is the only witness and he says Shanann killed their two children then we have to allow discussion on whether this is true or not. If a member wishes to believe Chris Watts is telling the truth then we must respectfully let that person express their opinion as long as it is within TOS.

    Please alert if you see a post that violates our terms of service. It is not a violation of our TOS if someone expresses that she/he believes Shanann murdered her children. Until we have a guilty verdict or until Chris Watts changes his story we will allow discussion on this topic.

    Thanks,
    Tricia
     
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  3. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Hey Everyone,

    A bit of clarification.

    Please, no more discussion on the viability of Shanann's company or whether her company was or wasn't a pyramid scheme. No more digging up documents or complaints or anything to do with the function of the company. The fact is Shanann's company is not what we are discussing.

    If want to discuss if job stress may have contributed to Shanann and Chris' relationship problems please make sure it is in the realm of reality and not the Twilight Zone.

    Thank you,
    Tricia
     
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  4. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

    Evidence of triple murder:

    1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

    2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

    3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

    4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
    a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
    b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

    5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

    6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
    In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

    7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

    8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

    9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

    10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

    11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
    A Global History of Child Death

    12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

    13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

    14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

    15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

    16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

    17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

    18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

    19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

    20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

    21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

    22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

    23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

    24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

    25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

    A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

    D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

    A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


    E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

    Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

    https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
     

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  5. The Saint

    The Saint Well-Known Member

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    Isalybra,

    Thank you for joining us. I know that it is a painful time for you and other friends of Shanann. I'm so sorry for your loss.

    I don't mean to overload you, but these are things I'd like to know if you are to able to give us information:

    1. Do you know where we could find a floorplan of the Watts home? Does the housing development have a name, so we can look for their floorplan online?
    Can you look at the2 attached floorplans and see if they are correct? I may have the girls' bedrooms wrong. I don't know which patio option.

    2. Are there low windows on the side of the garage that Nikole's son would be able to see Shahnann's car inside the garage? Or could it be that the garage's front roll-up door
    wasn't locked? Is there an outside side door to the garage that could have been unlocked? (There is one in the floorplans below)

    3. Do you know where the Amazon Echo was located in the Watts home other than than the kitchen? Was there more than one Echo? If so, where were they located? Alexa could have recorded the murders.

    4. How many flat screen TVs did the Watts have and where were they located?
    I ask because smart TVs, especially Samsungs, can eavesdrop and record the audio inside your house. The TV(s) and Google Voice on Shanann's cellphone could have recorded the murders.

    5. (Was a question about Dieter that has been answered)

    6. I'm confused about the day and time at whch the neighbors 2 doors down heard Dieter barking in a terrible way as if he had been injured. They said they called the police for a wellness check and everything was ok. Do you know what day and time this happened? Was Dieter still in the Watts house when the cadaver dogs where searching the house?


    7. RE: Financial stress. There has been a wide range of speculation about what kind of
    salary Shanann was earning --- anywhere from less than $20,000 up to $80,000 and beyond. Can you give us an idea of what she actually was making (not including the
    car allowance)?

    8. Was there any indication that their home was in danger of foreclosure by the bank
    (not HOA)?
    Did Shanann's mom co-sign the current mortage?

    9. The health of Bella and CeCe seemed very fragile, due to much more than just nut allergies. Shanann had a category on her Pinterest page titled FMF that included pins about Periodic Fever Syndrome that affects children. Did Bella & CeCe that's why they had surgery in March to remove their adenoids and insert ear tubes? Did the girls have frequent health crises?

    10. How many baby monitor display screens did Shanann have and where were they located? Were they split screen so you could see Bella's room and CeCe's room
    at the same time? Were they color or black-and-white? Did their baby monitors
    record or upload via wifi to a Cloud? Do you know the model number or name of the Summer Infant monitor that the Watts owned??

    11. Do you know if their Ring doorbell would record the vistor on Shanann's cell phone or Cloud whether she answered the alert or not?

    Thanks so much!

    (Apologies to WS posters if these questions were discussed earlier. I've had trouble keeping up due to the time zone difference and thread lockdowns.)
     

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  6. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Hi Everyone,

    We have a verified insider in the Watts case. Please join me in welcoming Trinket78.

    As a verified member Trinket78 is not required to provide links for anything Trinket78 posts.

    It is up to you whether you believe Trinket78 or not.

    You are allowed to question our verified insiders but verified insiders are not required to answer your question.

    YOU MUST TREAT A VERIFIED INSIDER WITH RESPECT. If you disagree with any VI, including Trinket78 you cannot become snarky, rude, or sarcastic.

    If you don't agree with what a VI is saying then scroll on by. Move on. Problem solved.

    In this case, we have a suspect who is telling a much different story than what prosecutors say happened. Both sides are allowed to be discussed as long as you all do so in a respectful manner.

    Thank you.

    The Watts thread will be open by 7:30 AM Mountain time.

    Tricia
     
  7. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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  8. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    Welcome Trinket 78:):):):);):):):):):)
     
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  9. dixiegirl1035

    dixiegirl1035 Well-Known Member

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    Welcome Trinket!

    When somebody asked you yesterday what is important for us to know about SW and CW, you said most of what you're reading here couldn't be further from the truth about who they were.

    Are the recently posted videos more of a reflection on thier family dynamics which perhaps you were referring to and were highlighted in those videos? Would you care to expound on who they were as individuals and as a couple?

    You said you knew AP. I hope she is doing well, as being associated with these killings must be heartbreaking for her, and I can't fathom the pain she must be going through due to such involvement. She did not have anything to do with the killings, and I hope she's getting support from friends, those surrounding her at work and within her family. Are you in touch with her and how is she holding up?

    I'm sorry that this tragedy is so close to you, and hope you and your friends that knew them are being comforted by friends, family and co-workers.
     
  10. Mo Thuairim

    Mo Thuairim Well-Known Member

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    @cottonweaver SO sorry for sending you off on a 30min wild goose chase through that video again! You're absolutely right — that specific phone reference is not there.
    I had misheard/misremembered what Amanda Thayer said about CW being on his phone.
    On first listen I thought she said (when asked about red flags) something like: "Watching him watching himself on his phone".
    Listening back, what she actually says is:
    "Watching... watching him on his phone" (we don't know what he was doing on his phone). She emphasises the second 'watching', which is what tripped me up. They also say they can't be too specific because of the investigation.
    Sorry I couldn't reply to your post the normal way as the thread is locked.
     
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  11. wattsgoingon

    wattsgoingon Active Member

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    Welcome, @Trinket78 - so glad to have you here. :)
     
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  12. Nikynoo

    Nikynoo Verified Attorney - United Kingdom

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    Welcome @Trinket78 - I do hope that you are getting the support you need. Please don't feel pressurised to answer questions outside of your comfort zone.:)
     
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  13. Hazelnutty

    Hazelnutty Innocent Bystander

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    Welcome @Trinket78 . We're glad to have you with us. My heart goes out to you and those who know/ knew the Watts family.
     
  14. DexterMorgan

    DexterMorgan Well-Known Member

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    Did you attend SW funeral <modsnipped unnecessary comment>?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2018
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  15. cottonweaver

    cottonweaver Well-Known Member

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    No probs Mo. As I said, on the last thread, I know you were only reiterating what another had been saying but I couldn't find the OP's.
     
  16. MerryB

    MerryB Well-Known Member

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    These are good questions!
    I, too, look forward to hearing from @Trinket78 !
    I am particularly interested in hearing about the SW & CW she personally knew.
    I do not recall her stating that she knew the AP.
     
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  17. cottonweaver

    cottonweaver Well-Known Member

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    Welcome Trinkett.

    I can very much appreciate the anguish caused to everyone impacted by this case, both sides of friends and family <modsnipped unapproved facebook information>

    I don't have any questions at this stage because I think you'll probably get more than enough already)

    eta: corrected the date
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2018
  18. Trinket78

    Trinket78 Verified Insider Watts Case

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    Hello and thank you.
    I can expand on who they were outside of the SM world. Either individually or together.
    Someone asked me if I was the AP the day I got on here. I said I was not. I do not know her at all. I agree through I hope she has a support system. To all this has affected it has changed lives forever.
    hello and thank you.
    I can speak of who they were outside the social media world. Individually or separate.
    Someone asked the day I got on here if I was the AP. I am not the AP. I did not know her and I don’t know who she is. I do hope she also has a support system. This has changed many lives forever.
     
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  19. Trinket78

    Trinket78 Verified Insider Watts Case

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    Thank you so much for that!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2018
  20. castilloisno1

    castilloisno1 Well-Known Member

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    Just wanted to say welcome @Trinket78. Any insight that you can give us is appreciated.
     
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