Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Hey Everyone,

    A bit of clarification.

    Please, no more discussion on the viability of Shanann's company or whether her company was or wasn't a pyramid scheme. No more digging up documents or complaints or anything to do with the function of the company. The fact is Shanann's company is not what we are discussing.

    If want to discuss if job stress may have contributed to Shanann and Chris' relationship problems please make sure it is in the realm of reality and not the Twilight Zone.

    Thank you,
    Tricia
     
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  3. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

    Evidence of triple murder:

    1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

    2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

    3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

    4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
    a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
    b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

    5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

    6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
    In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

    7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

    8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

    9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

    10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

    11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
    A Global History of Child Death

    12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

    13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

    14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

    15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

    16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

    17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

    18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

    19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

    20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

    21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

    22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

    23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

    24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

    25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

    A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

    D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

    A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


    E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

    Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

    https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  4. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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  5. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Well-Known Member

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    This is my current theory**, and I'm doing research to see how common this is. MOO.

    * I will caution our VI's that they might want to scroll through this post.

    [**Every time that I start typing my theory, I talk myself out of it because every theory seems to conflict with this or that evidence that we know, but here goes...]

    One of them killed the children--I find it unimaginable that either would do it. However, based upon the way things turned out, I am going to assume that CW did it. And here's why....

    I'm going to assume that if someone asked for a separation, it was SW rather than CW. (I won't go into all of the details at this point, but I suspect that SW wanted out. That's why she spent 5 or 6 weeks in NC with family---to confirm that this is what she wanted. Maybe it had to do with discovering he had an affair, or whatever.)

    I going to assume that CW loved SW, and he loved the children even more. The six week separation from SW and the children was extremely painful for him. (Remember what he said in the interview about the quiet house? That's what he lived for five weeks.)

    I think that SW told him when he went to NC that she wanted a separation (that's why he seemed distant and uninvolved.) She told him she was moving to NC and taking the girls.

    I think the pain of of the thought of losing SW and the girls seemed to CW to be unendurable. He had one last weekend alone with the children while she was in AZ, and he stewed over it.

    I think when she got back, he begged her not to go, and she told him she was sure she wanted a divorce and she was going to start packing for the move. I think they got into an argument or fight, and I don't have to explain what happened next. Alternatively, if he knew she was coming back only to leave again, the pain may have caused him to harm the daughters before she arrived.

    It wasn't really premeditated, other than it was something that had occurred to him and he couldn't get out of his mind. The fear and pain of separation haunted him and drove him to do the unspeakable.

    Afterward, he "stored" and "preserved" the children at a place that was near to his heart--at an oilfield site in a beautiful field of wildflowers.

    So that's it---pain of separation of something he deeply loved.

    ETA: He blamed the daughter's deaths on SW because he could not admit, even to himself, the unspeakable act that he had committed.

    (No, this wasn't an appropriate response by him. He should have sought professional help.)
     
  6. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Here are the verified posters in the Watts Case,

    Isalybra - verified friend of Shanann

    Trinket78 - verified insider

    Colorado303 - verified insider

    Mrspratcher. - verified lawyer
    This member is posting on the Watts thread, however, anywhere Mrspratcher would like to post as a verified lawyer on Websleuths is perfectly fine.


    You must treat all verified members on Websleuths with respect. If you don't believe them please scroll past. It is not OK for you to call out a verified member and challenge them as to whether or not they are telling the truth. This includes anything passive aggressive or posting in a way where you tapdance around what you really mean but we can all tell you are questioning the truthfulness of the verified member.

    This thread will be open before 7:30 am Mountain.

    Thank you everyone,
    G'night,
    Tricia
     
  7. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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  8. CocoChanel

    CocoChanel Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    GOOD MORNING!
    THANK YOU!
     
  9. scandinavian girl

    scandinavian girl Well-Known Member

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    it is open! I can finally say hello and thank you to all posters especially to our VI:s. Because of me being in sweden I have never been able to post and right now I have nothing to add.
     
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  10. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    So basically the only fact we have to go on that SW killed the girls is CW's word? There hasn't been any physical or even circumstantial evidence pointing towards that yet? Only speculation based on feelings people get from watching her SM videos? (And not everyone interprets those videos the same way.) And the idea that she might have known that he was cheating? (Though that is also speculative.)
     
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  11. Amandaaa

    Amandaaa Verified Attorney

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    Välkommen! :)
     
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  12. JerseyWasHome2

    JerseyWasHome2 Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to elaborate a little more on the "emasculation" potential discussed last night. Shut down the pc and just read through posts and noticed the topic continued.

    @Gitana 1 wrote: "Do you believe that saying on a public video "you're not being very helpful Chris", in an even tone like we heard in the video, not a nasty tone, not yelling, is "very emasculating"?"

    Not all examples are as extreme as the "Boogie Nights" example you cited! And I certainly wasn't referring to just one comment in one video.

    I encourage you to look up emasculation.

    Emasculation is *not* just about sex or sexuality. It includes a variety of things, including the man feeling in control, having some power, feeling that his intelligence is respected, physical and emotional strength, having his opinions be respected, etc.

    Various psychology sites state that emasculation can include: Pointing out his flaws, badmouthing him to friends, checking out in the bedroom, undermining him ("You did it wrong - never mind, I'll do it myself"), shaming him in public, scoffing at his salary, calling him a wimp ("he doesn't have game"), taking over arguments, pointing out his flaws ("he doesn't listen to me"). Some men feel emasculated the instant the wife starts earning more money than them.

    IMO, and of course it's only based on her videos which is all we have to go by, she will praise CW when she's in a mood to do so and when he's not in the video.

    When he participates in a video, it's all about the kids and what they're doing, and he's an accessory or puppet and had better do things right. I don't know if she did all of the above things that I quoted as examples, but she certainly did some of them in her very public videos. Yes, some of the videos and comments were harmless,
    but when factored into the whole picture and combined together, along with some VI comments that we have, I stand by my opinion that this could *possibly* be part of the issue.

    Perhaps those types of comments were few and far between, and perhaps not. None of us know.

    A VI mentioned a few days back that she would put him down in public. That can really have a severe cumulative effect in someone's mind esp if the person is extremely sensitive. Some see ribbing and some internalize the hurt. See Trinket78's post #483: "He was verbally abused from the beginning."

    Yes, that is VIs opinion, just as we are entitled to form our own opinions here, and just as other friends and family members have opinions, and the poor jury is going to have to weed through them.

    And we have another VI opinion that SW didn't really put CW down, and in fact, only tended to boost people up.

    BOTH of those opinions are valid and even accurate, because it is based on those people's interactions and experience with the parties involved.

    Maybe the reason she puffed him up with her compliments in certain videos is because she DID berate him and he talked to her about it, so that was her way of apologizing, letting him know that she really didn't mean it and did love him, couldn't live without him, etc. Who knows.

    It could have been a potential "snapping" trigger on that night. SW could have been so upset about the potential separation that she raged at him - "After all I've done for you! You were nothing when we met. Nothing. You dressed like an idiot. I encouraged you to take that job. You'd be nowhere without me." and so on... That could have been his last straw.
     
  13. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

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    @Bill Carson

    Re Colorado youth autopsies

    The Governor did veto the bill and said:

    "It's lasting grief for families, for communities, and certainly, our heart goes out to any family who's gone through this. But that's part of the reason why you want to do everything you can to ensure that it happens as rarely as possible."

    "…When you look at the record — transparency and dialogue after a tragedy often brings about change. It can lead to better public policies. It can lead to more successful government protections. It can lead to more public and private resources on certain issues."

    Colorado governor vetoes bill to make autopsy records secret
     
  14. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

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    @nwmouse

    Anadarko said late Thursday morning that Chris was fired by the company on Wednesday.

    He was taken to jail at 11:30 p.m. on Wednesday Aug. 15.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
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  15. amysmom

    amysmom Well-Known Member

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    This was posted yesterday by I think? cshea99
    TY! Even tho it makes my tummy hurt to watch it :eek:

     
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  16. Nudgee

    Nudgee FLY EAGLES FLY.....

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    Thank You @Mosaic for responding to my question ..... I have not yet figured out how to copy a quote so apologies for that. I will read through the guidelines to learn.

    What I was asking was if anyone knew where I read CW wanted to follow though with a separation.:

    I did read the affidavit yesterday morning which must be why the thought was stuck in my mind. After rereading the affidavit this morning, I notice it states CW wanted to "initiate the separation" (**note** not A separation, but THE separation). After Googling marital separation in the state of CO, it appears to me (I am not an attorney) that there is a required separation process/time line of legal separation (obviously differs between states). I now believe that the future of their marriage had been a discussion between CW & SW for sometime prior, and the 6 week trip to NC....MAY... have been a "trial separation" before formally filing for a legal separation. Taking that into consideration may help with some insight to questions folks have (me included) regarding SW's Facebook post stating what a great husband/father CW was, their pregnancy, timing, etc.....

    Like almost everyone, my head and heart wants to understand WHY this guy MAY have (I'm covering bases on the "innocent until proven guilty" ) done what he did to his beautiful wife, unborn son, and absolutely adorable young girls. On the other hand, I pray I never understand WHY because there is just nothing that will get me over the fact that 4 heartbeats were stopped way too short by the hands of another... and then 2 of those placed into vats of crude oil tanks. I've read that in some cultures, soaking in crude oil baths are considered a spa remedy. NOT IN THIS CASE :-(

    I am so thankful that during my trip to that area the week before, I only have images of the sporadic neighborhoods, the huge Lexus dealership off Route 25, the oil rigs that dot the landscape....and the beauty of the majestic Rocky Mountains..... and that I don't recall seeing any oil tank storage facilities...

    You all are awesome and I am learning so much from you. (off to read how to quote)!!
     
  17. Marli61

    Marli61 Well-Known Member

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  18. MerryB

    MerryB Well-Known Member

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    There’s a lot we still don’t know. Let’s all stay open-minded & open to new information & ideas.
     
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  19. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    Click "Reply" at the bottom of the post.
     
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  20. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    Chris Watts was fired from Anadarko shortly before he was arrested.
    Funeral for Shanann Watts, 2 daughters today
     
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