Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

[Layla123]

If she had a history of mental illness, we have not been privy to it, nor if he did. We all probably know 1/100th of the evidence they've found if that. No, I am not suggesting in any way that either one had a history! Just stating that really, we are all trying to sleuth here with our hands tied and a blindfold half on, as we don't know all the facts.

She certainly does praise CW, many times, no doubt about it. And it did seem genuine going by the videos we are privy to seeing. It's a mystery for sure. I can't see either one harming the children. I watched the "diggity dog" video of him singing to the kids and it almost made me tear up. I lean toward the aliens theory at times (kidding, but I know you know what I mean).

And of course she wasn't posting on SM to portray an accurate representation of her life - she was posting cute kid pics and videos for family and to boost her business. But where are the videos of her and CW solo? She mentioned date nights in a few videos. Where are the videos of just her and hubby enjoying time alone as they used to have pre-kids? Let's talk about how great CW is while he's on camera w/out the kiddies, and how she loves him and what he did for her that day. This could be reading way too much into her choice of what to air (which seemed to be almost anything) but if she's using the child videos to promote Thrive and how energetic it made her to deal with them, I would think potential Thrive purchasers who don't have children might also want to see some one-on-one time with the spouse in those shots. Would love to see links if anyone knows of any. I have scrolled and scrolled and never reached the beginning of her videos page - just so many to load.

There are also many men - I know women in these situations - who become bitter and withdrawn, and cheat - when the kids suddenly become the wife's focus, and they are no longer top dog. It's sad. Like the wife can't share her attention? NOT saying that is what happened here. Just putting out another thought that came to mind.

Again I say, what a tangled web they wove.

We do have many testimonials from friends who knew them very well, and spent a lot of time with them. Almost every one of them speaks very highly of Shanann. They loved her. She was a best friend to many. I’ve heard repeatedly how she brought positivity to everyone she came into contact with. That does not describe a mentally ill woman. CW, on the other hand, had a secret life going on. We know for certain, at this point, at the very least, he was unfaithful to SW with at least one VP. (I made VP up, it means “verified partner,” not “alleged partner”.) And I haven’t watched all their videos, but there’s one of them going to a Metallica concert together without the kids, and there’s another of them playing outdoor checkers. They appeared to be having fun.

 

[Asevario]

Ahhh, I was going to say something about that too! The only way to avoid them going after your house is if it's in another person's name! Then they can't touch it. That explains that.

Property Report

 

[Bill Carson]

Maybe @Bill Carson could chime in? I do not know but under the impression there is no "legal" separation in Colorado, just divorce.

We do have "legal separation" in Colorado. It's the same process as a divorce---you divide property and debts, award alimony, and make orders for parenting time and child support--but the marriage isn't dissolved, so the parties remain married. There would be a "Decree of Legal Separation" at the end of the case. Once the decree of legal separation has been in place for six months, then either party can petition the court to convert the legal separation to a divorce.

BUT, when most people say, "I want a separation" or "I want to initiate a separation" or "we've been separated for two years," what they really mean is a physical separation, where they no longer live together.

 

[Layla123]

I did for many years. Sometimes it is very subtle. But yes, after awhile it can really beat down your confidence. I would imagine two controlling people would clash. Although CW appeared to internalize things and just " go with the flow" it must have had some effect on him. It would be interesting to here from Trinket concerning that. Jmo

You know, some people aren’t meant to be together, that’s something you figure out over time. If the goal is to try to be as healthy and happy as you can be, it’s on C.W. for not speaking out if things bothered him if he had a problem with her. Nobody is a mind reader. You can’t blame her if he never told her. She could have altered her behavior. Those are things you figure out in a marriage through honest communication.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

We do have many testimonials from friends who knew them very well, and spent a lot of time with them. Almost every one of them speaks very highly of Shanann. They loved her. She was a best friend to many. I’ve heard repeatedly how she brought positivity to everyone she came into contact with. That does not describe a mentally ill woman. CW, on the other hand, had a secret life going on. We know for certain, at this point, at the very least, he was unfaithful to SW with at least one VP. (I made VP up, it means “verified partner,” not “alleged partner”.) And I haven’t watched all their videos, but there’s one of them going to a Metallica concert together without the kids, and there’s another of them playing outdoor checkers. They appeared to be having fun.

True! And I haven't read anything negative about CW's history at this point (other than, obviously, what he did). Haven't seen a peep that he was weird, unusual, to be expected, she married beneath her, anything. I do recall the Metallica concert vid now, thanks! I would think with all of the Thrivers they encountered on their vacations and such, someone surely would have chimed in by now against him as a character witness? The secret life - for sure - is not right. But many get into that situation because they are unhappy and it doesn't mean they're about to murder anyone, or will ever. I've read, and witnessed firsthand, for whatever reason, men often need to "line up" another female before leaving the wife/girlfriend. Can't be alone for a second, it seems.

 

[amysmom]

I did for many years. Sometimes it is very subtle. But yes, after awhile it can really beat down your confidence. I would imagine two controlling people would clash. Although CW appeared to internalize things and just " go with the flow" it must have had some effect on him. It would be interesting to here from Trinket concerning that. Jmo

Makes sense it would beat down confidence & also beat down the other person in many other ways..I think Trinket has already confirmed SW wasn't very subtle about it but many of us had already come to that conclusion from some of her vids..How did it effect CW on the inside vs what he showed on the outside? We MAY know the answer to that?

 

[human]

I'd like to elaborate a little more on the "emasculation" potential discussed last night. Shut down the pc and just read through posts and noticed the topic continued.

@Gitana 1 wrote: "Do you believe that saying on a public video "you're not being very helpful Chris", in an even tone like we heard in the video, not a nasty tone, not yelling, is "very emasculating"?"

Not all examples are as extreme as the "Boogie Nights" example you cited! And I certainly wasn't referring to just one comment in one video.

I encourage you to look up emasculation.

Emasculation is *not* just about sex or sexuality. It includes a variety of things, including the man feeling in control, having some power, feeling that his intelligence is respected, physical and emotional strength, having his opinions be respected, etc.

Various psychology sites state that emasculation can include: Pointing out his flaws, badmouthing him to friends, checking out in the bedroom, undermining him ("You did it wrong - never mind, I'll do it myself"), shaming him in public, scoffing at his salary, calling him a wimp ("he doesn't have game"), taking over arguments, pointing out his flaws ("he doesn't listen to me"). Some men feel emasculated the instant the wife starts earning more money than them.

IMO, and of course it's only based on her videos which is all we have to go by, she will praise CW when she's in a mood to do so and when he's not in the video.

When he participates in a video, it's all about the kids and what they're doing, and he's an accessory or puppet and had better do things right. I don't know if she did all of the above things that I quoted as examples, but she certainly did some of them in her very public videos. Yes, some of the videos and comments were harmless,
but when factored into the whole picture and combined together, along with some VI comments that we have, I stand by my opinion that this could *possibly* be part of the issue.

Perhaps those types of comments were few and far between, and perhaps not. None of us know.

A VI mentioned a few days back that she would put him down in public. That can really have a severe cumulative effect in someone's mind esp if the person is extremely sensitive. Some see ribbing and some internalize the hurt. See Trinket78's post #483: "He was verbally abused from the beginning."

Yes, that is VIs opinion, just as we are entitled to form our own opinions here, and just as other friends and family members have opinions, and the poor jury is going to have to weed through them.

And we have another VI opinion that SW didn't really put CW down, and in fact, only tended to boost people up.

BOTH of those opinions are valid and even accurate, because it is based on those people's interactions and experience with the parties involved.

Maybe the reason she puffed him up with her compliments in certain videos is because she DID berate him and he talked to her about it, so that was her way of apologizing, letting him know that she really didn't mean it and did love him, couldn't live without him, etc. Who knows.

It could have been a potential "snapping" trigger on that night. SW could have been so upset about the potential separation that she raged at him - "After all I've done for you! You were nothing when we met. Nothing. You dressed like an idiot. I encouraged you to take that job. You'd be nowhere without me." and so on... That could have been his last straw.

The comments she made to him made me cringe. To advertise those kinds of comments on a public forum for all to see to me is unreal. The way she treated the children in several videos showed that she is oblivious to other’s feelings at times. That does not make her a bad person. She simply probably needed some parenting training and some focus on how her words can hurt.

His demeanor during the interviews was so cheerful all of the time knowing his children are dead. I can believe he lost his love for his wife. But to be so calm while his children are dead? No, this is not just snapping.,There is something very pathological at work.

 

[Charlot123]

I'd like to elaborate a little more on the "emasculation" potential discussed last night. Shut down the pc and just read through posts and noticed the topic continued.

@Gitana 1 wrote: "Do you believe that saying on a public video "you're not being very helpful Chris", in an even tone like we heard in the video, not a nasty tone, not yelling, is "very emasculating"?"

Not all examples are as extreme as the "Boogie Nights" example you cited! And I certainly wasn't referring to just one comment in one video.

I encourage you to look up emasculation.

Emasculation is *not* just about sex or sexuality. It includes a variety of things, including the man feeling in control, having some power, feeling that his intelligence is respected, physical and emotional strength, having his opinions be respected, etc.

Various psychology sites state that emasculation can include: Pointing out his flaws, badmouthing him to friends, checking out in the bedroom, undermining him ("You did it wrong - never mind, I'll do it myself"), shaming him in public, scoffing at his salary, calling him a wimp ("he doesn't have game"), taking over arguments, pointing out his flaws ("he doesn't listen to me"). Some men feel emasculated the instant the wife starts earning more money than them.

IMO, and of course it's only based on her videos which is all we have to go by, she will praise CW when she's in a mood to do so and when he's not in the video.

When he participates in a video, it's all about the kids and what they're doing, and he's an accessory or puppet and had better do things right. I don't know if she did all of the above things that I quoted as examples, but she certainly did some of them in her very public videos. Yes, some of the videos and comments were harmless,
but when factored into the whole picture and combined together, along with some VI comments that we have, I stand by my opinion that this could *possibly* be part of the issue.

Perhaps those types of comments were few and far between, and perhaps not. None of us know.

A VI mentioned a few days back that she would put him down in public. That can really have a severe cumulative effect in someone's mind esp if the person is extremely sensitive. Some see ribbing and some internalize the hurt. See Trinket78's post #483: "He was verbally abused from the beginning."

Yes, that is VIs opinion, just as we are entitled to form our own opinions here, and just as other friends and family members have opinions, and the poor jury is going to have to weed through them.

And we have another VI opinion that SW didn't really put CW down, and in fact, only tended to boost people up.

BOTH of those opinions are valid and even accurate, because it is based on those people's interactions and experience with the parties involved.

Maybe the reason she puffed him up with her compliments in certain videos is because she DID berate him and he talked to her about it, so that was her way of apologizing, letting him know that she really didn't mean it and did love him, couldn't live without him, etc. Who knows.

It could have been a potential "snapping" trigger on that night. SW could have been so upset about the potential separation that she raged at him - "After all I've done for you! You were nothing when we met. Nothing. You dressed like an idiot. I encouraged you to take that job. You'd be nowhere without me." and so on... That could have been his last straw.

I would repeat myself - it is not very mature to post that many snippets of your life online. None of us would look too wise if everything we do or say gets online.

I have the feeling that SW wanted to be an actress as a kid. And having gotten to these videos, she suddenly started realizing this dream - she is online now! Nothing in her suggested being successful in this role, her speech was almost stuttering and her messages were rather shallow, and I don't even know if she understood what was truly driving her, but here is how it looks like to me. I don't know whether relationship was so bad that it was her outlet, or if it got bad because of her constantly videotaping, but I think she praised her husband for the sake of these movies. And Thrive was not the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal was to be online. Her message as a divorced woman with three kids and without her beautiful house would have been very different, and SW did not want to be seen in that role. (Although I believe that in this position, surviving as single mothers, women can give really powerful messages - but SW's perception of the world was obviously different).

So what she says, laughing at him, is irrelevant. She is not emasculating him. She is the author, the screenwriter, and the actress of a bad movie. The problem is not her putting him down - the problem is, she views herself as sort of a celebrity. Her whole world is imaginary.

Still, nothing that could have not been helped, I think.

He, on the other hand, is scary.

 

[DexterMorgan]

If you find the user and click on the actual number of messages a list appears of them

Yes. The post should be in a V.I reference thread since we hit 60 pages a day here. I hate spying on peoples profile pages.

 

[Bill Carson]

DIGGING GRAVES IS HARDER THAN YOU WOULD THINK

My wife's dog died last night, and she and I had to dig a grave to bury it this morning. We live in Colorado. Our yard is sandy and rocky and dry, with natural grasses, yucca plants, and cactus, probably very much like the terrain where CW buried SW "in a shallow grave."

It took my wife and I an hour-and-a-half to dig a hole that was about 3 feet long by 2.5 feet wide by 2 feet deep with a pick axe and a shovel. We would have preferred for it to be deeper, but it would have taken an hour to get another 6 inches deep, the ground was so hard. Then when we got the dog in there, it took longer than you'd think to fill the hole back up with dirt.

This leads me to believe that if CW intended to bury all three bodies, he soon found that it would be an impossible task and would have taken all day, despite the fact that he is fairly young and in better shape than me.

Putting the girls in the oil tanks may have been out of necessity, especially if he was trying to dig graves when his Ring doorbell notification alerted him that NU had arrived at the home. He may have intended to come back later, with the CW's purse, cell phone, and belongings to finish the burying.

Edited for typo and clarification.

 

[margarita25]

My thoughts today based on personal experience are that Shanann might have wanted to contact the mistress and tell her to stay the heck away from her family. She may have also wanted to contact the mistress’s husband, if she had one. JMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

You know, some people aren’t meant to be together, that’s something you figure out over time. If the goal is to try to be as healthy and happy as you can be, it’s on C.W. for not speaking out if things bothered him if he had a problem with her. Nobody is a mind reader. You can’t blame her if he never told her. She could have altered her behavior. Those are things you figure out in a marriage through honest communication.

Very true. There is always counselling and if that doesn't work out, divorce. At least that's what rational people do. Jmo

 

[Tricia]

@Tricia

Can each thread have a sticky with the 3 V.I main comments that clarify questions answered and other things?

Or can we at least have a V.I thread where the only thing on there is a copy paste of their responses of pertinent information?

This way we don't have to stroll through 60 pages to see the V.I's input nor keep asking them the same questions over and over again.

Dexter this is a fantastic suggestion. The only problem is I don't know if we have the people power to do something like this. It will have to be updated every day.
Maybe we can find all the VI's posts and put them in a separate thread. It will be too hard to try and find the original question because the question usually will not be behind right behind the answer. Let me try an experiment and see how it looks. Back in a while.

 

[Charlot123]

DIGGING GRAVES IS HARDER THAN YOU WOULD THINK

My wife's dog died last night, and she and I had to dig a grave to bury it this morning. We live in Colorado. Our yard is sandy and rocky and dry, with natural grasses, yucca plants, and cactus, probably very much like the terrain where CW buried SW "in a shallow grave."

It took my wife and I an hour-and-a-half to dig a hole that was about 3 feet long by 2.5 feet wide by 2 feet deep with a pick axe and a shovel. We would have preferred for it to be deeper, but it would have taken an hour to get another 6 inches deep, the ground was so hard. Then when we got the dog in there, it took longer than you'd think to fill the hole back up with dirt.

This leads me to believe that if CW intended to bury all three bodies, he soon found that it would be an impossible task and would have taken all day, despite the fact that he is fairly young and in better shape than me.

Putting the girls in the oil tanks may have been out of necessity, especially if he was trying to dig graves when his Ring doorbell notification alerted him that NU had arrived at the home. He may have intended to come back later, with the CW's purse, cell phone, and belongings to finish the burying.

Edited for typo and clarification.

I am very sorry that your wife and you have lost the dog. May you meet her/him behind the Rainbow Bridge. Very sorry.

Practical question - to get the kids, did they have to pump out the oil? If so - people should be livid with him! It is bad enough to open a grave, but getting bodies out of the oil!

They probably will hold the process in another county.

 

[human]

Good point. In SW's facebook posts, she was doing all of the housework. She did post pictures of CW mowing - a very small yard!

We saw a video of him cooking and he wiped down the cabinet without being told

 

[Layla123]

True! And I haven't read anything negative about CW's history at this point (other than, obviously, what he did). Haven't seen a peep that he was weird, unusual, to be expected, she married beneath her, anything. I do recall the Metallica concert vid now, thanks! I would think with all of the Thrivers they encountered on their vacations and such, someone surely would have chimed in by now against him as a character witness? The secret life - for sure - is not right. But many get into that situation because they are unhappy and it doesn't mean they're about to murder anyone, or will ever. I've read, and witnessed firsthand, for whatever reason, men often need to "line up" another female before leaving the wife/girlfriend. Can't be alone for a second, it seems.

Cheating doesn’t make a cheater a murderer, but it does show a great lack of character and integrity. It also shows a willingness to cause an immense amount of pain to your wife and children in order to satisfy your own selfish needs. If you’re not happy, get out of the marriage and the family commitment, first. Start a new life. Don’t hurt the people who love you. One of our VI’s doesn’t believe C.W. committed these murders. They think SW did it. I can’t say with 100% certainty that C.W. did it. I’m at 99.9% certainty that he did it, but I’ve been wrong before, I’m waiting to see what more comes out at the trial.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

Ok, found this... A video of just SW and CW, no kids, interacting normally, happy, discussing each of their weight loss on Thrive. Just don't want folks here to think I'm biased - am open to any and all scenarios. So yes, here is one of them, from 11 months ago, life looked GOOD then. He appeared on camera behind her, she didn't tell him to disappear, etc. Shanann Watts

 

[MsBetsy]

My thoughts today based on personal experience are that Shanann might have wanted to contact the mistress and tell her to stay the heck away from her family. She may have also wanted to contact the mistress’s husband, if she had one. JMO.

I think it's possible that may have been part of the " emotional conversation" they had. Maybe he revealed the truth to her, or maybe they addressed the option of divorce. It will be interesting if it comes out during the trial. If there is one. Jmo

 

[WildWest]

That was also my question, as well. Iirc he was detained at the station for questioning earlier that day, though not sure exactly what time (I would MOO it was sometime in the early afternoon, since the Thayers stated in their interview that he left their house late morning to pick his father up at the airport) and he wasn’t actually under arrest until 11:30PM Wednesday night. I am an HR professional and it seems odd that there would be an HR rep on hand at that time of night to render a termination. Hence leading me to believe he would have been termed during normal business hours. (MEO). Which also leads me to further question his reason for termination. I plan to try to do further research into their policies and procedures and code of ethics to see if he may have broken a policy by being a suspect, since there was no reports that he admitted to anything until after he spoke to his father that night. I’ve read other speculations on his term reason in other forums which have me interested on another possible motive which could lead to signs of pre-meditation.

How can we be getting different info from different sources. It's a little bit crazy. I think we're getting bogged down with the detail.

Watts was taken to jail at 11:30 p.m. Wednesday after he was detained for questioning.
Chris Watts case: Everything we know so far about the alleged murders of his wife, daughters

Chris Watts had worked for Anadarko but was fired on Wednesday, the day he was arrested in the case.
Chris Watts murder case: Everything we know so far about the deaths of his wife, daughters

So long as he stays where he is, I'm happy.

Not sure if this is helpful to either of you (no MSM links sorry) that Andarko fully cooperated with LE, drone found sheet. I've wondered if Andarko had electronic records (truck gps/gate code data/camera on oil tank) that showed he was at a site he was not authorized to be at on that day? (so fired after the evidence found but before he confessed)

Unrelated to the question, I was wondering about a few of the witnesses on the affidavit, maybe they were coworkers but also wondering if they were ranch hands on the cervi ranch..... If you google the location, the road to that oil pad site goes right by the main ranch. Thinking outloud if you all don't mind.

 

[Mosaic]

DIGGING GRAVES IS HARDER THAN YOU WOULD THINK

My wife's dog died last night, and she and I had to dig a grave to bury it this morning. We live in Colorado. Our yard is sandy and rocky and dry, with natural grasses, yucca plants, and cactus, probably very much like the terrain where CW buried SW "in a shallow grave."

It took my wife and I an hour-and-a-half to dig a hole that was about 3 feet long by 2.5 feet wide by 2 feet deep with a pick axe and a shovel. We would have preferred for it to be deeper, but it would have taken an hour to get another 6 inches deep, the ground was so hard. Then when we got the dog in there, it took longer than you'd think to fill the hole back up with dirt.

This leads me to believe that if CW intended to bury all three bodies, he soon found that it would be an impossible task and would have taken all day, despite the fact that he is fairly young and in better shape than me.

Putting the girls in the oil tanks may have been out of necessity, especially if he was trying to dig graves when his Ring doorbell notification alerted him that NU had arrived at the home. He may have intended to come back later, with the CW's purse, cell phone, and belongings to finish the burying.

Edited for typo and clarification.

Sorry for the loss of your wife's dog.

Interesting insight on grave digging; regarding manual labor and time length, taking in consideration that two persons were digging...
Back to my rabbit hole...

EBM: to remove quote