Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #27

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

    Evidence of triple murder:

    1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

    2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

    3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

    4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
    a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
    b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

    5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

    6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
    In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

    7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

    8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

    9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

    10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

    11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
    A Global History of Child Death

    12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

    13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

    14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

    15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

    16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

    17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

    18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

    19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

    20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

    21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

    22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

    23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

    24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

    25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

    A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

    D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

    A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


    E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

    Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

    https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  3. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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  4. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Well-Known Member

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    This is my current theory**, and I'm doing research to see how common this is. MOO.

    * I will caution our VI's that they might want to scroll through this post.

    [**Every time that I start typing my theory, I talk myself out of it because every theory seems to conflict with this or that evidence that we know, but here goes...]

    One of them killed the children--I find it unimaginable that either would do it. However, based upon the way things turned out, I am going to assume that CW did it. And here's why....

    I'm going to assume that if someone asked for a separation, it was SW rather than CW. (I won't go into all of the details at this point, but I suspect that SW wanted out. That's why she spent 5 or 6 weeks in NC with family---to confirm that this is what she wanted. Maybe it had to do with discovering he had an affair, or whatever.)

    I going to assume that CW loved SW, and he loved the children even more. The six week separation from SW and the children was extremely painful for him. (Remember what he said in the interview about the quiet house? That's what he lived for five weeks.)

    I think that SW told him when he went to NC that she wanted a separation (that's why he seemed distant and uninvolved.) She told him she was moving to NC and taking the girls.

    I think the pain of of the thought of losing SW and the girls seemed to CW to be unendurable. He had one last weekend alone with the children while she was in AZ, and he stewed over it.

    I think when she got back, he begged her not to go, and she told him she was sure she wanted a divorce and she was going to start packing for the move. I think they got into an argument or fight, and I don't have to explain what happened next. Alternatively, if he knew she was coming back only to leave again, the pain may have caused him to harm the daughters before she arrived.

    It wasn't really premeditated, other than it was something that had occurred to him and he couldn't get out of his mind. The fear and pain of separation haunted him and drove him to do the unspeakable.

    Afterward, he "stored" and "preserved" the children at a place that was near to his heart--at an oilfield site in a beautiful field of wildflowers.

    So that's it---pain of separation of something he deeply loved.

    ETA: He blamed the daughter's deaths on SW because he could not admit, even to himself, the unspeakable act that he had committed.

    (No, this wasn't an appropriate response by him. He should have sought professional help.)
     
  5. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Here are the verified posters in the Watts Case,

    Isalybra - verified friend of Shanann

    Trinket78 - verified insider

    Colorado303 - verified insider

    Amandaa - verified lawyer

    Mrspratcher. - verified lawyer

    Amandaa and Mrspratcher are posting on the Watts thread, however, anywhere they would like to post as verified lawyers on Websleuths is perfectly fine.


    You must treat all verified members on Websleuths with respect. If you don't believe them please scroll past. It is not OK for you to call out a verified member and challenge them as to whether or not they are telling the truth. This includes anything passive aggressive or posting in a way where you tapdance around what you really mean but we can all tell you are questioning the truthfulness of the verified member.
     
  6. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Ok so I played around with this option and I can tell you it can't work mainly because of the time it will take to gather the posts and put them in a different thread.

    BUT, there is no reason why anyone can't do exactly what I did when I started working on Dexter's suggestion. Make sure before you do this that you are in the Located forum. See in the upper right-hand corner you see a box that says "Search" In that box put in the VI"s name. Colorado303. Then you see a drop down box that gives you options. One option is "Posted by Member" and you put in the name of the VI again. Then you chose the option "Search this Forum Only" and you will get all of the VI's posts on one page. You have to click on each post to read it but that's it. You are all set. If you want to search an individual thread for all of the VI's posts go to that thread and search but instead of choosing "Search this Forum Only" you choose "Search this Thread Only".
    Hope this makes sense.

    If there was a way I could get all the VI's posts to copy over at the same time without having to click on each individual post to make a new thread it would be easy. You'll see how you have to click on each individual post to read. To copy a post we have to click on each individual post. After you clicked on each individual post you can then copy them over into the new thread. There are pages and pages of VI posts. It would take too long to do this. Best thing is for you to search for the posts.
     
  7. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    PUTTING THE ISSUE OF THE ICE CREAM DRAMA TO REST!!!!!

    I have been in touch with a person who was there the day that you all are talking about. Here is what this person told me:

    . It was not Bella or Cece that ate any ice cream. It was another grandchild There were NO NUTS of any kind on the ice cream It was a plain individual cup of vanilla ice cream Package said it may have been processed in a tree nut factory There was NO bowl of any nuts laying around


    If you don't believe my source then let me tell you I have seen Shanann's social media where she discussed the other grandchild eating the ice cream. She was very clear that her daughter, the one with the allergy, was not offered the ice cream nor did she eat the ice cream.

    If I see one more post about ice cream I am leaving you all and going to Outer Mongolia where there is no ice cream.

    Thank you.
     
    loftysleuth, colmans, Mystic and 28 others like this.
  8. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    From an insider who was there the day it happened. Here is what they said:

    There was an unopened bag of pistachios on top of the kitchen island. She saw them, Laughed and said "Mimi, we can't have these" and put them on top of the fridge. I guess most importantly.. They were unopened and not on the bottom shelf

    Pistachio story cleared up. No need to discuss this any further.

    Tricia
     
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  9. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    This is your thread for the morning when wonderful Harmony 2 opens the thread for you.

    Goodnight,
    Tricia
     
  10. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Good morning fellow sleuthers. Your Watts thread is open for discussion.

    [​IMG]

    link for graphic
     
  11. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    Might want to put a link to the new thread at the end of the old one. ☺
     
  12. Solstice Canyon

    Solstice Canyon Active Member

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    Where is everyone this morning? :eek:

    ETA: I feel like I looked at my class schedule wrong and went & sat down in the wrong (empty!) classroom!
     
  13. Ljc4

    Ljc4 Active Member

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    i felt the same way!
    I finally got caught up and everyone's gone! lol
     
  14. Kimmy1870

    Kimmy1870 New Member

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    I'm still trying to figure out how it works!
     
  15. dixiegirl1035

    dixiegirl1035 Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of people don't know how to find new threads unless the old one has a link to the new one. They'll be here as soon as the link goes up on the old one?
     
  16. ColoradoLove

    ColoradoLove Well-Known Member

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    Good morning from beautiful Colorado! I haven't contributed here much because once I finally catch up with the craziness, it's usually closed :rolleyes:

    I have so many thoughts, and still need to pick the brain of my neighbor who worked with CW (in the oil industry, not the dealership like I saw one poster speculate), but for now, the only point I want to bring up is that in the *official* statement from SW's family, published in MSM, they DO clearly state that Shanann AND the girls "were viscously murdered by CW".

    Now, I don't know exactly how this is handled, with law enforcement being in touch with the family, but I assume they would be in close contact and would be giving the family accurate information, plus the family would presumably consult with LE before making an official statement. Obviously, this statement is not irrefutable proof that he is guilty, but I think it's another piece of compelling evidence that there WAS a confession to killing all of them, at some point. Wouldn't it be very unlikely that the immediate family would be given incorrect information about the confession? Or that the family would just make that up and make such an inaccurate statement?
     
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  17. Misy

    Misy Well-Known Member

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    Good morning everyone,
    Without any new news or details it causes me to think about what we do know more than I normally would. I think that SWs trip to NC may be crucial to CW's story. If she confided in someone in her family or someone in NC which it appears she did (a friend/hairdresser of her moms says she mentioned something about a separation) about a seperation, hopefully she also relayed if this was her idea or CWs. I would imagine she did...
    that's a pretty obvious element. In any case, either way, whosever wish it was, zit really doesn't matter too much, because the point is she knew about it...had time to think about it. If it had been her idea, which some posters suspect, she certainly would not have gone ballistic on that fateful night, if the emotional talk was about the separation. And even if it was CWs wish to separate, she would have had time to digest the idea so that on that fateful night, she wouldn't have lost it, as CW says she did, and insanely strangled her girls (I hate typing that). In other words, she wouldn't have been blindsided and beyond sanity and control. I think either way, his story doesn't make any logical or reasonable sense.
     
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  18. dixiegirl1035

    dixiegirl1035 Well-Known Member

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    From the many cases I have followed, they specifically do not tell the family information they do not want to get out in the public. They specifically don't so they do not release it and mess up their evidence. That is my opinion. Perhaps @gitana1 could input or other lawyers here.

    Also, Gitana outlined earlier that if he had confessed to all of them, that for SURE would have been in the arrest affidavit. I agree with her, moo.

    ETA Gitana post

    Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #26

    "I assume he never said it because IMO there would be no way that would be left out of the police report. That's big. That would be the biggest probable cause statement in the affidavit of them all."
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  19. ColoradoLove

    ColoradoLove Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I remember Gitana saying that, so that's why I found it odd that not only were there MSM reports that he had confessed to all, but the family also had that impression. So maybe it was just a misunderstanding, and maybe LE only told them of "a confession", not necessarily a confession to killing all of them? I don't know but it seems to be a big deal to get that detail so wrong.
     
  20. dixiegirl1035

    dixiegirl1035 Well-Known Member

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    That is what I think happened also. Who would have known that he would have come up with the story that he did!
     
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