Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #30

[idfinch]

I think he did think hiding them in the oil tanks was the perfect plan. It would disguise the smell, and if he was in charge of the tanks, he had control over the situation. He had told others that he had asked for the separation, and that was the first thing he told his wife's friend when she called looking for her. She knew that comment was strange, that's what first made her suspicious, according to her interview. I do think he thought he would get away with it, he didn't even have his story straight when he was arrested. He probably thought he would have plenty of time, and was prepared to tell the story of her getting upset and taking off somewhere with the girls. He likely did not think much beyond that. Imo

Thank you, this sums up exactly how I personally feel about his mindset, his lack of planning and belief that he would have plenty more time to craft the story and set the scene.

IMO he was going to paint himself as the victim by saying he asked for a separation and she punished him by leaving him and taking the children. They would never be found, posters would fade on poles, the AP would move right on in and comfort him. But then NUA (BLESS HER!!!!) raised an immediate alarm bell at the whole "playdate" and "separation" vagueness/weirdness and threw a huge wrench in things. He wasn't worried at all and kept putting her off until she mentioned the cops, then he was suddenly panicked flying home like a NASCAR driver in a race. Ooooh I bet he was panicking on that drive.

I think he figured he would have plenty of time to come home after work, clean up the sheets, put that and her purse, phone, suitcase, keys and shoes in another bag. He may have planned to take her car out after dark, go back to the oil field and fit Shanann and her personal effects in the tanks. Would rigor have been long past then? I know times were posted and it was discussed about the girls. Apologies for being graphic, but he may not have taken rigor into account if he first attempted to put her body in the tank, too.

I doubt the shallow grave was his initial plan driving out there. I think he was confident enough that he would get away with it and had plenty of time to set the scene and that's why he got sloppy and careless. The grave plus the garbage bag, the sheet matching the one at home in the trash. A day or so later and the evidence would all be in a landfill after the trash man came, or in an oil tank with his babies.

IMO he planned it before she came home because of the AP and the 5 weeks of freedom. Whether it was weeks before or that day, I don't know. But I believe firmly he didn't have even a 1% worry that she'd be noticed missing so soon, especially since most people were used to her already being gone due to the extended trip. So in his mind, shrug, she's still gone. Ooops, well she came home for a minute but cleared out and left me without a trace and she took my babies so I don't get barrel rolled and tell them they can't have their dessert. Poor me.

 

[whisperOFwings]

I hope someone can clarify that, how strange. I wonder if she had her phone recording when she entered the house.

Oh gosh, that would be great for the case, wouldn't it!
But, if that 'possibly' could have happened ...
No way will I listen to that!! It would break my heart.

 

[nwmouse]

Why is this thread becoming an assault of family members ? I have seen zero indication ads or otherwise to even suggest anything you are saying.

I'm not seeing anyone here assaulting or insulting CW's family members. On the contrary I am seeing tremendous compassion and understanding for CW's family here, as we understand how horrific this must be for them. Cw's parents have lost two precious granddaughters and an unborn son and loving Daughter in law. Their beloved son is in jail and faces a possible DP because of the murder of SW, the girls and Niko. I feel so sad for them, I cannot imagine the pain and horror they are experiencing right now. They did not attend the funeral out of respect to SW's family and I'm sure they are grieving in private - their worlds are also upside down.

 

[pocketaccent]

Has Scott Peterson or other family annihilators been diagnosed with any psychological disorder? Not that it excuses murder but I would like to know.

 

[MsBetsy]

How about disassociative fugue? People have wondered about that. What is it? How does it work? Could he conceal certain things like an affair, and know things like his name, address, identity, while in a fugue state by remembering his wife killed his kids?

What are the characteristics of someone in such a state? Do they match with how he looked and sounded and what he said during his three porch interviews!

Thank you so much!!!!!!

Yes, I have questions too but will let that poster answer the others first. Gitana 1 what is your opinion about why the prosecutors don't want the autopsy results revealed? Sorry if it was already answered but I wondered if it had something to do with not being able to find potential jurors? The only reason I can think of is that it would be so hard to find people who have not heard of the details of the case, and have not formed any opinions. Could there be other reasons?

 

[Best of What's Around]

Thank you, this sums up exactly how I personally feel about his mindset, his lack of planning and belief that he would have plenty more time to craft the story and set the scene.

IMO he was going to paint himself as the victim by saying he asked for a separation and she punished him by leaving him and taking the children. They would never be found, posters would fade on poles, the AP would move right on in and comfort him. But then NUA (BLESS HER!!!!) raised an immediate alarm bell at the whole "playdate" and "separation" vagueness/weirdness and threw a huge wrench in things. He wasn't worried at all and kept putting her off until she mentioned the cops, then he was suddenly panicked flying home like a NASCAR driver in a race. Ooooh I bet he was panicking on that drive.

I think he figured he would have plenty of time to come home after work, clean up the sheets, put that and her purse, phone, suitcase, keys and shoes in another bag. He may have planned to take her car out after dark, go back to the oil field and fit Shanann and her personal effects in the tanks. Would rigor have been long past then? I know times were posted and it was discussed about the girls. Apologies for being graphic, but he may not have taken rigor into account if he first attempted to put her body in the tank, too.

I doubt the shallow grave was his initial plan driving out there. I think he was confident enough that he would get away with it and had plenty of time to set the scene and that's why he got sloppy and careless. The grave plus the garbage bag, the sheet matching the one at home in the trash. A day or so later and the evidence would all be in a landfill after the trash man came, or in an oil tank with his babies.

IMO he planned it before she came home because of the AP and the 5 weeks of freedom. Whether it was weeks before or that day, I don't know. But I believe firmly he didn't have even a 1% worry that she'd be noticed missing so soon, especially since most people were used to her already being gone due to the extended trip. So in his mind, shrug, she's still gone. Ooops, well she came home for a minute but cleared out and left me without a trace and she took my babies so I don't get barrel rolled and tell them they can't have their dessert. Poor me.

Yes, IMO he thought he would at least have one more night. I wonder where he would have dumped her car? Or maybe later set it on fire somewhere? If he knew about the neighbor’s camera...I don’t know how he planned to get around that one unless it wouldn’t likely pick up the driver at night. Wig and slump down?

 

[MsBetsy]

Has Scott Peterson or other family annihilators been diagnosed with any psychological disorder? Not that it excuses murder but I would like to know.

Some think he has Antisocial Personality Disorder. I think he is a classic example.

 

[katydid23]

I think the defense may go with :
CW killed SW because she killed the children. CW got rid of all bodies because he didn't want to go to prison for killing SW.
SW, out of shame, begged CW to kill her. Asked him to dump children's bodies in oil, so they would never be found. Enraged CW killed her and followed her order. ( lol, sorry)

As to the BOLDED portion above, I hope they try to sell that one to the jury. Fingers crossed...

 

[Alethea]

I’m guessing that COD for all 3 is strangulation because C.W. would be even stupider than I think he is if he lied about how he “witnessed” CeCe being strangled. If there was a different COD, CW would be instantly guilty, caught in yet, another lie. And if strangulation was the COD, what is the State worried about? In what way would it not be in the public interest to know? They all died somehow. What they have to prove is who did it. How does strangulation affect that?

I'm split. The defense already filed a motion accusing the prosecution of leaks and not controlling state and LE employees who apparently talked to the media. My first inclination was that the state was just being proactive in trying to get the autopsy sealed so they can say they were doing just what the defense is demanding and trying to prevent leaks. The prosecution can only try to prevent information that's in its control from being leaked. I think most people involved in law and law enforcement take court orders seriously. When a record is sealed, access to it is limited and not everyone who works for the state would have open access to review it.

My other thought is the autopsy contains inflammatory information like evidence of sexual assault that could poison a jury pool. The defense will claim it was sensationalized and the case was "tried in the media" if a story like that got out. If the autopsy corroborated exactly what CW said, CW's attorneys could move to have the charges dismissed. Sealing the report would not prevent CW's attorneys from making any sort of motion or legal argument about it. It only prevents the press from getting the report.

I guess we will know more when the defense files its motion. If it was highly favorable to the defense they might oppose the prosecution's motion and say it's in the publics interest to know what happened and they see no reason to withhold it since the state believes they have the person responsible and no one is out looking for the "real killer."

The prosecution may have miscalculated and assumed the defense would go along with the motion in line with their "no leaks" campaign regardless of what the autopsy said. But if it is favorable to CW, they may want to try to publicly rebuild his credibility and they would want the report public.

 

[NuttMegg]

Thank you, this sums up exactly how I personally feel about his mindset, his lack of planning and belief that he would have plenty more time to craft the story and set the scene.

IMO he was going to paint himself as the victim by saying he asked for a separation and she punished him by leaving him and taking the children. They would never be found, posters would fade on poles, the AP would move right on in and comfort him. But then NUA (BLESS HER!!!!) raised an immediate alarm bell at the whole "playdate" and "separation" vagueness/weirdness and threw a huge wrench in things. He wasn't worried at all and kept putting her off until she mentioned the cops, then he was suddenly panicked flying home like a NASCAR driver in a race. Ooooh I bet he was panicking on that drive.

I think he figured he would have plenty of time to come home after work, clean up the sheets, put that and her purse, phone, suitcase, keys and shoes in another bag. He may have planned to take her car out after dark, go back to the oil field and fit Shanann and her personal effects in the tanks. Would rigor have been long past then? I know times were posted and it was discussed about the girls. Apologies for being graphic, but he may not have taken rigor into account if he first attempted to put her body in the tank, too.

I doubt the shallow grave was his initial plan driving out there. I think he was confident enough that he would get away with it and had plenty of time to set the scene and that's why he got sloppy and careless. The grave plus the garbage bag, the sheet matching the one at home in the trash. A day or so later and the evidence would all be in a landfill after the trash man came, or in an oil tank with his babies.

IMO he planned it before she came home because of the AP and the 5 weeks of freedom. Whether it was weeks before or that day, I don't know. But I believe firmly he didn't have even a 1% worry that she'd be noticed missing so soon, especially since most people were used to her already being gone due to the extended trip. So in his mind, shrug, she's still gone. Ooops, well she came home for a minute but cleared out and left me without a trace and she took my babies so I don't get barrel rolled and tell them they can't have their dessert. Poor me.

I tend to think the 3 hour delay in her return infuriated him beyond all limits. Whatever the plan was, it was already delayed in the precious early morning hours. IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I meant I don't know that no one wants him to escape justice.

Oh! Sorry. Maybe you are right. Although for some people that would be justice! Not to me. Jmo

 

[whisperOFwings]

We don't know he was leaving her, and it is just as likely that she said, ok then get your butt out of the house and go to your lover, I already know who it is, that "gal" you work with...... You can't do much in the love department anyway. Wham!!! He knows she's right and murders them all. (Sorry, PG 13 vocabulary) IMO There is NOTHING that makes a weak, cowardly man angrier than a derogatory reference to the family jewels and how they operate. Or not.

Edit... forgot to add my words, lolol
I like your PG 13 vocabulary NuttMegg

 

[MKZoo]

I'm not seeing anyone here assaulting or insulting CW's family members. On the contrary I am seeing tremendous compassion and understanding for CW's family here, as we understand how horrific this must be for them. Cw's parents have lost two precious granddaughters and an unborn son and loving Daughter in law. I feel so sad for them, I cannot imagine the pain and horror they are experiencing right now. They did not attend the funeral out of respect to SW's family and I'm sure they are grieving in private - their worlds are also upside down.

That is such a great point. I have actually thought about how difficult it must be for both families that the circumstances really don't allow them to grieve together. If this had been a terrible accident, that is absolutely what they would have done. Through no fault of their own, they are on opposite sides of a horrific situation and they are denied the comfort of the only other people who could possibly understand this loss.

This is entirely the fault of CW. His family is not to blame for what he did. He made them victims too. Jmo.

 

[nwmouse]

Thank you, this sums up exactly how I personally feel about his mindset, his lack of planning and belief that he would have plenty more time to craft the story and set the scene.

IMO he was going to paint himself as the victim by saying he asked for a separation and she punished him by leaving him and taking the children. They would never be found, posters would fade on poles, the AP would move right on in and comfort him. But then NUA (BLESS HER!!!!) raised an immediate alarm bell at the whole "playdate" and "separation" vagueness/weirdness and threw a huge wrench in things. He wasn't worried at all and kept putting her off until she mentioned the cops, then he was suddenly panicked flying home like a NASCAR driver in a race. Ooooh I bet he was panicking on that drive.

I think he figured he would have plenty of time to come home after work, clean up the sheets, put that and her purse, phone, suitcase, keys and shoes in another bag. He may have planned to take her car out after dark, go back to the oil field and fit Shanann and her personal effects in the tanks. Would rigor have been long past then? I know times were posted and it was discussed about the girls. Apologies for being graphic, but he may not have taken rigor into account if he first attempted to put her body in the tank, too.

I doubt the shallow grave was his initial plan driving out there. I think he was confident enough that he would get away with it and had plenty of time to set the scene and that's why he got sloppy and careless. The grave plus the garbage bag, the sheet matching the one at home in the trash. A day or so later and the evidence would all be in a landfill after the trash man came, or in an oil tank with his babies.

IMO he planned it before she came home because of the AP and the 5 weeks of freedom. Whether it was weeks before or that day, I don't know. But I believe firmly he didn't have even a 1% worry that she'd be noticed missing so soon, especially since most people were used to her already being gone due to the extended trip. So in his mind, shrug, she's still gone. Ooops, well she came home for a minute but cleared out and left me without a trace and she took my babies so I don't get barrel rolled and tell them they can't have their dessert. Poor me.

Perfect summary! That's it in a nutshell.

 

[stereopticons]

To your last point, do you think it is likely that CW went into an “acute psychotic phase,” based on his postoffense behavior?

Does one commonly commit a crime like this, and then act so rationally and purposefully after the fact?

I think it's extremely unlikely that CW experienced acute psychosis at the time of the murders. My main reason for this is his actions and interviews in the days after. He didn't exhibit any bizarre behavior or thinking during his interviews. It's extremely unlikely he would have fully recovered that quickly and without treatment. Additionally, 33 is pretty old for an onset of a psychotic disorder with no prior indications. Of course, he could have had symptoms we don't know about, but again, I think it's very unlikely.

I should point out when I refer to bizarre behavior, I mean what's clinically considered bizarre behavior, which is things like tics, referring to your delusions, talking to hallucinations, etc.

How about disassociative fugue? People have wondered about that. What is it? How does it work? Could he conceal certain things like an affair, and know things like his name, address, identity, while in a fugue state by remembering his wife killed his kids?

What are the characteristics of someone in such a state? Do they match with how he looked and sounded and what he said during his three porch interviews!

Thank you so much!!!!!!

Basically, a dissociative episode is when you separate from your thoughts and actions.
Dissociation is possible, and more likely than psychosis, but honestly, also not likely at all. Dissociation can range in severity and may resolve more quickly than active psychosis, but it's not usually selective. If he said he blacked out and came to and found his wife and kids were dead, I'd be more likely to consider dissociation, but he didn't seem to have any memory loss at all. If he indeed did experience dissociation, he wouldn't remember a false (IMO!) memory of his wife killing the kids. He would almost certainly remember none of it.

The other thing to note about dissociation is that it is usually a response to trauma. For example, you see it most often in children who were sexually abused. It's hypothesized that dissociation is a form of a coping mechanism. It is possible that the dissociative episode could have been triggered by seeing SW strangling the girls, but if that were the case, he'd likely not remember any of his actions later on.

Dissociation also tends to be associated with numbness. I know we've debated how much emotion he's expressing in his interviews after the murders, but honestly, I think it's too much for him to have experienced a dissociative episode.

As always, my caveat is that you can't diagnose over the internet and I don't have all the information. But in my opinion, CW did not experience either active psychosis or a dissociative episode.

 

[pocketaccent]

As to the BOLDED portion above, I hope they try to sell that one to the jury. Fingers crossed...

 

[rainynights]

Yes, IMO he thought he would at least have one more night. I wonder where he would have dumped her car? Or maybe later set it on fire somewhere? If he knew about the neighbor’s camera...I don’t know how he planned to get around that one unless it wouldn’t likely pick up the driver at night. Wig and slump down?

I feel that CW acted pretty nonchalantly about the whole thing. He went to work after murdering his wife. I can't help but consider the possibility that CW actually believed that concealing the bodies would have been enough to convince everyone else that they had "vanished." IMO, he thought of them as nothing (vs nobody), as if they were not even human.

I honestly don't think CW was able to differentiate them from material objects enough to make the connection that other people would find it so strange that SW would leave the house without her car or any of her belongings. To him, IMO, SW, BW, and CCW seemed to be objects that were obstructing his path to freedom.

JMO.

 

[katydid23]

I don't believe CW thought his family let him down, or that he's anti-social with rage, anger management and resentment issues. There was no known acts of domestic violence patterns and I don't think CW acted out with revenge. jmo

Why do you think he closed down his FB? And why did he become distant towards his wife and kids during his visit to NC, after not seeing them for 5 weeks?

If strangling his wife was not revenge and rage, what was it? Because CW himself said he did it in a fir of rage. But you think it was not that. So what was it?

 

[MassGuy]

I think it's extremely unlikely that CW experienced acute psychosis at the time of the murders. My main reason for this is his actions and interviews in the days after. He didn't exhibit any bizarre behavior or thinking during his interviews. It's extremely unlikely he would have fully recovered that quickly and without treatment. Additionally, 33 is pretty old for an onset of a psychotic disorder with no prior indications. Of course, he could have had symptoms we don't know about, but again, I think it's very unlikely.

I should point out when I refer to bizarre behavior, I mean what's clinically considered bizarre behavior, which is things like tics, referring to your delusions, talking to hallucinations, etc.



Basically, a dissociative episode is when you separate from your thoughts and actions.
Dissociation is possible, and more likely than psychosis, but honestly, also not likely at all. Dissociation can range in severity and may resolve more quickly than active psychosis, but it's not usually selective. If he said he blacked out and came to and found his wife and kids were dead, I'd be more likely to consider dissociation, but he didn't seem to have any memory loss at all. If he indeed did experience dissociation, he wouldn't remember a false (IMO!) memory of his wife killing the kids. He would almost certainly remember none of it.

The other thing to note about dissociation is that it is usually a response to trauma. For example, you see it most often in children who were sexually abused. It's hypothesized that dissociation is a form of a coping mechanism. It is possible that the dissociative episode could have been triggered by seeing SW strangling the girls, but if that were the case, he'd likely not remember any of his actions later on.

Dissociation also tends to be associated with numbness. I know we've debated how much emotion he's expressing in his interviews after the murders, but honestly, I think it's too much for him to have experienced a dissociative episode.

As always, my caveat is that you can't diagnose over the internet and I don't have all the information. But in my opinion, CW did not experience either active psychosis or a dissociative episode.

Thank you so much for your answer here. Incredibly helpful.

 

[LittleFleurDeLys]

Nothing we don't already know, really.

Cheating husband who 'killed his wife and daughters' fails in bid to keep his jail visitors secret | Daily Mail Online

A judge has denied the request of an accused Colorado killer to keep the names of all his jail visitors under seal.

Chris Watts, who was reportedly having an affair at the time he allegedly killed his wife Shanann and their two daughters, Bella and Celeste, had submitted a request asking that the prosecution and members of the public not be allowed to learn who was seeing him in jail.

That request was denied however by the court on Monday.

Might be because of the AP?? If she/he/it is still visiting him although he confessed killing his pregnant wife I'll lose my faith in humanity.