Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #32

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Hey Everyone,

    A bit of clarification.

    Please, no more discussion on the viability of Shanann's company or whether her company was or wasn't a pyramid scheme. No more digging up documents or complaints or anything to do with the function of the company. The fact is Shanann's company is not what we are discussing.

    If want to discuss if job stress may have contributed to Shanann and Chris' relationship problems please make sure it is in the realm of reality and not the Twilight Zone.

    Thank you,
    Tricia
     
  3. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

    Evidence of triple murder:

    1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

    2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

    3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

    4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
    a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
    b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

    5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

    6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
    In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

    7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

    8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

    9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

    10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

    11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
    A Global History of Child Death

    12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

    13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

    14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

    15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

    16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

    17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

    18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

    19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

    20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

    21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

    22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

    23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

    24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

    25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

    A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

    D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

    A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


    E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

    Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

    https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    ...and of course our illustrious verified attorney and long time member Gitana1.
     
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  5. MKZoo

    MKZoo Well-Known Member

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    Bringing this over from the previous thread.

    I just re-watched the interview and wow, you are correct. It's like he's thinking back to old memories of them as opposed to a series of things that theoretically would have happened the previous day.

    I think I missed it because I was so focused on the gobbledygook that he says right before that part. First he says he hopes SW is safe and with the kids, as if they may have gone missing separately. That sounds really nuts until we find out she actually was not with the kids. He then does this whole series of "ifs". If they are safe, they will come back. Well they aren't, so they won't. If they are not safe AND someone has them, I want them back. They are not safe but no one has them, so you don't want them back. There were several posters yesterday who pointed out just how much he was revealing and it's quite chilling.
     
  6. Mo Thuairim

    Mo Thuairim Well-Known Member

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    I think LE were totally onto him before he even did the interviews. From the sounds of what the 9News journalist was saying in that interview, CW was expressing concern to the journalist pre-interview (on the phone) about possibly having the finger pointed at him. To me, the journalist sounds skeptical about what CW's real concerns are.
    It's hard to hear as the audio on the journo isn't great and apologies if I haven't transcribed it 100% accurately but this is what I hear the journalist saying around 2.55mins in.

    "I wanted to ask you a little bit about the hard part. Your first thought is: 'Where are they? I want them back.' Your second thought is, you know, your friends were telling me, you've got some... and we kind of heard from you a little over the phone... You're also... your second thought is that you're afraid people think you may have done something."

     
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  7. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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  8. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    Good morning,
    I wanted to share this episode of AB with Joe Scott Morgan because it has a good illustration of the superglue fuming method for comparing finger/palm prints that was discussed here several threads back.
     
  9. dixiegirl1035

    dixiegirl1035 Well-Known Member

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    But were the children in a sealed bag preventing intrusion of any oil?

    Polar molecules dissolve polar molecules only and non-polar molecules ( like the lipids in the fingerprints) dissolve in non-polar solvent (as such is oil).

    Unless the children were sealed in a Ziploc bag type to prevent the oil getting on them, I do not believe that they will be able to retrieve fingerprints.

    Even if they could, they would first have to scrape off the oil and I don't think that would be able to be removed, dry skin, and leave the fingerprints there to even get with the super glue.

    Moo

    https://www.quora.com/Is-oil-non-polar-or-polar

    ETA- even if the bag was sealed when they went in, I don't think it would stay sealed because the buildup of body gases during decomposition.
     
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  10. SaguaroSpirit

    SaguaroSpirit Happy times in Cactus Land

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    Right, and he didn't call for help. According to his story, he was acting as judge, jury and executioner if indeed he did "strangle her in a rage." Which is still a crime. Not that I believe a word he says, I'm just sayin'.
     
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  11. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Hello Everyone,

    We are starting a new thread for the Watts case due to the fact we had too many alerts and problems on yesterday's thread. Therefore we have to remove thread #31 and will return it as soon as we are done cleaning things up!

    Thanks again Ms. Harmoney for opening this thread.
     
  12. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Good morning! Thread is open.

    [​IMG]





    link


     
  13. JackyBoy

    JackyBoy Fibro Warrior

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    Morning All, although the Afternoon here in the UK. :) I'm a Newbie here, but have, over the years followed a few cases here as a long time Lurker. Madeleine McCann,Caylee Anthony( that Verdict Broke my Heart) Watched the Jody Arias trial. Now I'm following this case, started following the minute the news broke...of which the circumstances are beyond belief! Poor Shanann & all her babies.... My heart hurts for them and their Families. It's a despicable Crime! All your comments and theories as to why CW did what He did, are very interesting to read.
     
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  14. kkdj

    kkdj Well-Known Member

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    Welcome JackyBoy! Glad to have you here!
     
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  15. JackyBoy

    JackyBoy Fibro Warrior

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    Thank you kkdj. Lovely to be here among you all. :)
     
  16. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
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  17. SoccerMotha

    SoccerMotha Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how to bring past posts over but on a previous thread someone asked about men and how they show grief. IMO people show it in many ways and this is hard to speculate on, (although I 100% believe that CW committed this & the interviews after are unbelievable). The first time I saw my husband get really upset and cry it seemed over the top to me, I really thought to myself that he was faking it a little. We've been together 15 years and I now know that it's genuine. I've also thought, because I'm here and see everyone speculate on reactions when children go missing or what have you that if you all saw my husband on TV pleading he would be hysterical and I can only imagine the opinions about how I know he would act versus myself, I am the calm, collected one during a crisis and fall apart in private.
     
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  18. JackyBoy

    JackyBoy Fibro Warrior

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    This smart motion lock etc at the Watts home is intriguing....hopefully they have a lot of Data from this, as well as the phones etc. LE probably has this, along with the GPS Data from CW's truck.

    I know this was discussed a way back now...but I've been thinking about the DA requesting CW give them fingerprints, palm prints...and the latest Footprints... RE a bag found at the Oil field...the only bag that i can think of where they've lifted what looks like a footprint impression, are perhaps one of the trash bags the little girls were put in when he loaded them into his truck and then...well you know what he did next...:( The DA is calling for these things as its Critical Evidence...I'm kind of thinking maybe they have a had Autopsy prelim report? as well as what they have received evidence wise from LE.
     
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  19. Allabouttrial

    Allabouttrial Well-Known Member

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    That was me. Thank you for responding. I think my hubby would be stoic in public, not necessarily the same as CW though.
     
  20. kkdj

    kkdj Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure my hubby would even personally go public but he might have a spokesperson.
     
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