Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #33

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Hey Everyone,

    A bit of clarification.

    Please, no more discussion on the viability of Shanann's company or whether her company was or wasn't a pyramid scheme. No more digging up documents or complaints or anything to do with the function of the company. The fact is Shanann's company is not what we are discussing.

    If want to discuss if job stress may have contributed to Shanann and Chris' relationship problems please make sure it is in the realm of reality and not the Twilight Zone.

    Thank you,
    Tricia
     
  3. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

    Evidence of triple murder:

    1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

    2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

    3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

    4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
    a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
    b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

    5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

    6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
    In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

    7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

    8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

    9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

    10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

    11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
    A Global History of Child Death

    12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

    13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

    14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

    15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

    16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

    17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

    18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

    19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

    20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

    21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

    22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

    23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

    24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

    25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

    A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

    D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

    A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


    E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

    Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

    https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    ...and of course our illustrious verified attorney and long time member Gitana1.
     
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  5. MKZoo

    MKZoo Well-Known Member

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    Bringing this over from the previous thread.

    I just re-watched the interview and wow, you are correct. It's like he's thinking back to old memories of them as opposed to a series of things that theoretically would have happened the previous day.

    I think I missed it because I was so focused on the gobbledygook that he says right before that part. First he says he hopes SW is safe and with the kids, as if they may have gone missing separately. That sounds really nuts until we find out she actually was not with the kids. He then does this whole series of "ifs". If they are safe, they will come back. Well they aren't, so they won't. If they are not safe AND someone has them, I want them back. They are not safe but no one has them, so you don't want them back. There were several posters yesterday who pointed out just how much he was revealing and it's quite chilling.
     
  6. Mo Thuairim

    Mo Thuairim Well-Known Member

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    I think LE were totally onto him before he even did the interviews. From the sounds of what the 9News journalist was saying in that interview, CW was expressing concern to the journalist pre-interview (on the phone) about possibly having the finger pointed at him. To me, the journalist sounds skeptical about what CW's real concerns are.
    It's hard to hear as the audio on the journo isn't great and apologies if I haven't transcribed it 100% accurately but this is what I hear the journalist saying around 2.55mins in.

    "I wanted to ask you a little bit about the hard part. Your first thought is: 'Where are they? I want them back.' Your second thought is, you know, your friends were telling me, you've got some... and we kind of heard from you a little over the phone... You're also... your second thought is that you're afraid people think you may have done something."

     
  7. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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  8. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    Good morning,
    I wanted to share this episode of AB with Joe Scott Morgan because it has a good illustration of the superglue fuming method for comparing finger/palm prints that was discussed here several threads back.
     
  9. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Please continue the discussion here and please keep the following points in mind:

    Do NOT personalize your posts or direct them in any way toward another poster. This is not FB. Be respectful whether you agree with another poster or not. We have a helpful "ignore" feature if you can't stand to read a particular poster's thoughts. Otherwise, just scroll and roll if you do not have anything constructive to contribute to the line of discussion.

    Welcome to all new members. Please take a moment to familiarize yourselves with our Rules and Terms of Service (TOS).

    Do not tell others how or what to post. Do not attempt to moderate the thread yourselves. Those are all TOS violations. Use the "Report" feature if you have a problem with a post or another poster and let the moderators handle it.

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  10. violet101

    violet101 Well-Known Member

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    Unless you have some inside information we aren’t privy too, how do you know he did all the housework? Have you ever been home with kids all day? Her house was constantly spotless in videos and you can’t have a spotless house with kids without cleaning up throughout the day. This was the time he was at work right? Trying to understand where this theory came from.
     
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  11. CommonLoonatic

    CommonLoonatic Not-So-New Kid In Town

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    I don't believe Trinket ever said that he did "most" of the housework, just that he did housework. Which, guess what? My husband does housework too, even with me being a SAHM, because SAHM =/= maid. He's an adult who can clean up after himself and help me around the house when he's off work. (Otherwise, when would I ever get a break?)

    ETA: That's not to imply that I make him do tons when he's not working, either. He just has basic chores that he would have to do for himself if he wasn't married with kids... and sometimes, he's in charge of them while I go have lunch with a friend, or go hiking.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
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  12. Allabouttrial

    Allabouttrial Well-Known Member

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  13. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    And five counts of first degree murder. It's not like this is a possible case of mistaken identity.

    Cases with charges like this are rarely prosecuted in error.
     
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  14. rogue ant

    rogue ant Well-Known Member

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    It looked to me like SW was very busy with her MLM job, including traveling, so it wouldn't surprise me if CW did some housework. When he found time for his AP, that I don't know. When SW was traveling for work would be convenient but then what about the kids? Did the affair take place at work? I'm not doubting he was having an affair BTW.
     
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  15. CommonLoonatic

    CommonLoonatic Not-So-New Kid In Town

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    If there's anything I've learned in life, you'll make time for the things (and people, hyuck-hyuck) that you wanna do.
     
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  16. k-mac

    k-mac Well-Known Member

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    chris watts tells reporters he and his wife had an emotional discussion at 4am.

    I bet they had an emotional discussion.
    he hit her with as soon as she walked in that he killed her children.
    then he killed her and his unborn son.
    sob, imo, she died knowing what he did .

    shanann had claw like talons on her fingers. beautifully manicured but always wondered how the hell she used her hands!
    I would suspect chris has some form of scratches o his body from shanann defending herself.
    LE enforcement would have stripped him and taken pictures and I reckon they found evidence. that's probably when he started to work out he had to change the story with some help from dad and the lawyers.

    jmo
     
  17. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    IIRC, the family returned from NC on August 7. Is that right?

    From her FB post the next morning:

    -Went to bed at 2am, up at 5:15am
    -2 loads of laundry
    -dusted whole house
    -cleaned out fridge and pantry and restocked
    -2 grocery stores with kids [​IMG]
    -Celeste Doctor appointment [​IMG]‍⚕️
    -emptied 7 suitcases/3 backpacks and put away
    -fed kids a million times
    -we all showered (we know this is a win)
    -went through 6 weeks of mail [​IMG]
    -washed kitchen floor
    -cleaned up kids disaster
    -repacked my suitcase for Arizona this Friday

    They literally said, “we’re going to bed!” And put themselves to bed! Rain machines on and all. They are obviously exhausted from traveling and playing. I’m over here knocking everything out and it’s only noon! The old me would live out of a suit case for 1-2 weeks till it was empty again.
    Shanann Watts

    * * * * *​

    I'm wondering if he did any housework at all while she was gone. MOO
     
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  18. nwmouse

    nwmouse Verified cheese addict.

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    Did AB HLN discuss anything new/interesting regarding the Watts case?
     
  19. riolove77

    riolove77 Verified Attorney

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    I think it's highly reckless at this point to speculate about SW's mental state, the share of housework CW did, who watched the kids more, what caused SW's former divorce, what/how much she lost in that divorce, etc. with NO proof of anything, and just preface it with IMO to get by. I think it's fine to have differences of opinion about what's going on in the case, but they should be backed by evidence that we have, however little it is at this point.
     
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  20. Johnny1181

    Johnny1181 Former Member

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    Very good insights imo
     
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