Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #35

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Hey Everyone,

    A bit of clarification.

    Please, no more discussion on the viability of Shanann's company or whether her company was or wasn't a pyramid scheme. No more digging up documents or complaints or anything to do with the function of the company. The fact is Shanann's company is not what we are discussing.

    If want to discuss if job stress may have contributed to Shanann and Chris' relationship problems please make sure it is in the realm of reality and not the Twilight Zone.

    Thank you,
    Tricia
     
  3. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

    Evidence of triple murder:

    1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

    2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

    3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

    4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
    a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
    b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

    5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

    6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
    In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

    7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

    8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

    9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

    10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

    11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
    A Global History of Child Death

    12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

    13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

    14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

    15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

    16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

    17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

    18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

    19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

    20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

    21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

    22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

    23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

    24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

    25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

    A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

    D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

    A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


    E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

    Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

    https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    ...and of course our illustrious verified attorney and long time member Gitana1.
     
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  5. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Please continue the discussion here and please keep the following points in mind:

    Welcome to all new members. Please take a moment to familiarize yourselves with our Rules and Terms of Service (TOS).

    Do NOT personalize your posts or direct them in any way toward another poster. This is not Facebook. Be respectful whether you agree with another poster or not. We have a helpful "ignore" feature if you can't stand to read a particular poster's thoughts. Otherwise, just scroll and roll if you do not have anything constructive to contribute to the line of discussion.

    Do not tell others how or what to post. Do not attempt to moderate the thread yourselves. Those are all TOS violations. Use the "Report" feature if you have a problem with a post or another poster and let the moderators handle it.

    Do NOT bring rumors and gossip here from Facebook. It is against TOS and it serves no purpose here other than to stir the pot. We are allowing discussion of the defense put forward by CW's legal team, but we will not allow or tolerate any bashing of SW or her children. Leave that nonsense on Facebook or expect to receive warning points and possibly a timeout.

    Thank you.
     
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  6. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Good morning!

    [​IMG]

    link


     
  7. Amandaaa

    Amandaaa Verified Attorney

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    On the last thread, someone asked about the movie theater autopsies and whether they were released...

    It looks like many documents were initially sealed after request and then the judge ordered them released (after preliminary hearing, prior to trial) after other parties intervened.

    “Prosecutors and Holmes' own defense attorneys had asked that the documents remain sealed, but Samour wrote in a ruling that "the defendant's interest in keeping the affidavits and records warrants sealed are outweighed by the First Amendment rights of media petitioners and the public in having those documents released."

    Not entirely clear if autopsies were included in these documents...

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/kdvr.c...d-unsealed-in-aurora-theater-murder-case/amp/
     
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  8. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

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    "...The documents include arrest affidavits, search warrants, eyewitness testimony and records from the case...."
    from link above.
    Autopsies of victims were not disclosed until trial.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
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  9. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

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    From prior thread:

    @Mrspratcher
    @liltexans can you please confirm whether discussions implying/claiming (i) SW had Munchausen by Proxy and (ii) suggesting CW wasn’t Nico’s father are not ok?

    @liltexans Yes, I can confirm that those discussions are not allowed. Again, we will need evidence presented by the prosecution or the defense to support that speculation and we don't have evidence at this time.
    liltexans, Yesterday at 1:39 PM
     
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  10. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

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    From prior thread:

    @liltexans said:
    Thank you. That was about 11 threads ago so please continue to alert if the IVF theory arises again. We have no evidence that this family used IVF for any of their children.
    Thank you for the clarification. Neither topic is open for discussion from this point on unless evidence is brought forward by either the prosecution or the defense regarding either topic.
    liltexans, Yesterday at 12:38 PM
     
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  11. Lady Justice21

    Lady Justice21 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how to bring a post over from a closed thread.... in regards to possible juror demographics Weld is not Denver. Weld is rural Colorado. Weld is also a huge county most of the size is made up from rural communities, lots of ag and oil/gas. That said most of the population comes from one larger "city". The city demographics vary widely lots of IT and medical professionals. Weld also has several "bedroom" communities ie people live there because they're priced out of Denver, and commute. In the past several years population has grown tremendously from out of state. Transplants also vary widely lots of IT and medical transplants and lots of oil/gas transplants.

    Very hard to predict what the jury pool will look like, if the venue isn't changed. There is such a wide range of folks.

    All IMO not sure that this is helpful, but since it came up wanted to provide some info.
     
  12. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    I think that the jury pool will have to be from another county, just MO. Because so many people in Weld county actually work for Anadarko petroleum. Or know people who could be involved.

    So, that is where it gets interesting, as someone stated, Denver/Boulder are more liberal areas. Adjacent counties of Larimer, Logan, are more rural and generally conservative. However, this trial is not necessarily that complicated. I am not really sure which way or if one would be better than another.
     
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  13. dixiegirl1035

    dixiegirl1035 Well-Known Member

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    I just had a thought this morning as I was thinking of the Jodi Arias case in comparison to this case. I looked it up, and Colorado does not allow jury questions. I really loved that in Arizona where the jury could ask questions.

    The states that expressly encourage judges to allow jurors to question witnesses are Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Nevada and North Carolina. Out of these jurisdictions, Arizona, Florida, and Kentucky require that judges allow jurors to ask written questions.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQICxAE&usg=AOvVaw3Sc_10om3091Vb3fQpZP7P

    ETA- this states Florida has jury questions allowed. I don't remember that at all in Florida cases I have followed. I wonder why I don't remember that. Getting old I guess.
     
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  14. DexterMorgan

    DexterMorgan Well-Known Member

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    Not 1 arm scratch on CW sounds like it was premeditated and he was fully clothed or covered them with sheets before the ambush. Jmo
     
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  15. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Or they were sleeping and they became unconscious within 15 seconds or so. I still think he may have used a pillow at some point. Or attacked Shanann from behind with the method that was described a few threads ago, in such a way that disabled her. Jmo
     
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  16. DexterMorgan

    DexterMorgan Well-Known Member

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    But if she was in killing mode. She would have left him with a scratch or something. Jmo
     
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  17. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, if she was in killing mode. If she was in a rage and had an altercation with him, it would have been much harder for him to overtake her. Maybe as she was strangling the child, he began strangling her, so they were both in the act of strangling, and she did not want to stop so that's why she didn't fight him. Just trying to look at it with an open mind.
     
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  18. SaguaroSpirit

    SaguaroSpirit Happy times in Cactus Land

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    Yes. If what happened was the way CW is saying, there would most probably be some visible remnants of it, at least somewhere. There would have been quite a loud, physical messy battle royale in that case.
     
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  19. Mellowmelly

    Mellowmelly Well-Known Member

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    I just can not imagine that scenario, it’s the most far fetched thing I’ve ever heard, you are quite witty MsBestsy.
     
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  20. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    True. If someone was so enraged that she was strangling a child, and the person who created that rage, interrupted a killing spree, I could see violent, deep scratches on the face, arms, hands, of the interrupter, CW.

    CW had no marks, or deep scratches on his face, arms, only a small minor blemish on his hand. SW had no opportunity to fight back, he killed her when she was asleep.

    SW had some long nails, she would have been able to do some serious damage if she had the opportunity to fight back.
     
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