Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #36

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Hey Everyone,

    A bit of clarification.

    Please, no more discussion on the viability of Shanann's company or whether her company was or wasn't a pyramid scheme. No more digging up documents or complaints or anything to do with the function of the company. The fact is Shanann's company is not what we are discussing.

    If want to discuss if job stress may have contributed to Shanann and Chris' relationship problems please make sure it is in the realm of reality and not the Twilight Zone.

    Thank you,
    Tricia
     
  3. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

    Evidence of triple murder:

    1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

    2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

    3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

    4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
    a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
    b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

    5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

    6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
    In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

    7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

    8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

    9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

    10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

    11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
    A Global History of Child Death

    12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

    13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

    14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

    15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

    16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

    17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

    18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

    19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

    20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

    21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

    22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

    23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

    24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

    25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

    A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

    D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

    A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


    E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

    Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

    https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  4. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Please continue the discussion here and please keep the following points in mind:

    Welcome to all new members. Please take a moment to familiarize yourselves with our Rules and Terms of Service (TOS).

    Do NOT personalize your posts or direct them in any way toward another poster. This is not Facebook. Be respectful whether you agree with another poster or not. We have a helpful "ignore" feature if you can't stand to read a particular poster's thoughts. Otherwise, just scroll and roll if you do not have anything constructive to contribute to the line of discussion.

    Do not tell others how or what to post. Do not attempt to moderate the thread yourselves. Those are all TOS violations. Use the "Report" feature if you have a problem with a post or another poster and let the moderators handle it.

    Do NOT bring rumors and gossip here from Facebook. It is against TOS and it serves no purpose here other than to stir the pot. We are allowing discussion of the defense put forward by CW's legal team, but we will not allow or tolerate any bashing of SW or her children. Leave that nonsense on Facebook or expect to receive warning points and possibly a timeout.

    Thank you.
     
  5. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

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    "...The documents include arrest affidavits, search warrants, eyewitness testimony and records from the case...."
    from link above.
    Autopsies of victims were not disclosed until trial.
     
  6. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

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    From prior thread:

    @Mrspratcher
    @liltexans can you please confirm whether discussions implying/claiming (i) SW had Munchausen by Proxy and (ii) suggesting CW wasn’t Nico’s father are not ok?

    @liltexans Yes, I can confirm that those discussions are not allowed. Again, we will need evidence presented by the prosecution or the defense to support that speculation and we don't have evidence at this time.
    liltexans, Yesterday at 1:39 PM
     
  7. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    NEW RULES! EVERYONE, PLEASE READ ASAP

    Hi Everyone,

    To say the Watts case has been a challenge is an understatement.

    I'll get right to the point.

    Ther have been so many pointless alerts, alerts by the same people against the same people, that Websleuths has come very close to the point of shutting down because we did not have the staff to cover the rest of the forum.

    Really. I'm not exaggerating.

    The Watts discussion had divided members as I have never seen before.

    We have some new rules. New rules for the Watts thread only.

    1 - You may alert on the same person twice in a current thread. If you go to alert a third time on that same person in the same thread, you must not alert. You have to ignore the person or scroll by. If the post is bad enough someone else will alert on it. If it works out to where some of the posts stand that should have been alerted on oh well.
    If you do alert more than two times on the same person on the same thread then it is an automatic FIVE DAY TIMEOUT.

    2 - We are starting fresh. No more Facebook drama. No drama from anywhere period. This thread is now a drama free zone

    3 - No more talking about other cases unless there is a legit reason to do so.

    4 - No more off-topic posts and this includes portions of your life you decide to reveal.

    5 - If you speculate on some aspect of this case your speculation must be based in reality. I think Chris and Shanann are lizard people from another planet is not a speculation based in reality. Did Chris and Shanann have money issues is a very logical speculation. If you are not sure whether you should speculate or not I would say do not. If you have any hesitation about your post please do not hit the reply button on the post.

    6 - Did I mention the new rule about alerts on the Watts thread only? You may alert two times on one poster per Watts discussion thread. If you alert a third on the same poster on the same thread it is an automatic FIVE -DAY timeout. Let someone else alert. If it is bad enough someone will catch it I promise.

    7 - Remember the "Ignore" feature is your friend. Use it, please?

    8 - If you mention any Facebook post, if you mention a story from Facebook, if you mention something from a random Facebook account that has not been approved by Websleuths first it is an automatic FIVE DAY time out.

    9 - We may add to this list. For right now this is everything I can think of at the moment.

    Thank you,
    Tricia.
    P.S. The new thread will be ready to go in the morning before 9;00 AM Tuesday
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  8. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Harmony or one of the other wonderful mods will open this thread in the morning
     
  9. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Good morning! The Watts thread is now open... Be sure to read post #7.

    [​IMG]

    link
     
  10. Madison418

    Madison418 Overachiever at over analyzing

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    Haven't been on since last week and now we're on thread 36!! So insane. This case definitely evokes a lot of strong feelings because it's just so horrific and doesn't make sense. Anyway, I think last thread someone asked about whether CW could legally and/or strategically modify his confession. Any of our lawyers know if he could modify it? And what are everyone's thoughts on the strategic implications of retracting or modifying his confession?
     
  11. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    Does this apply to broken quotes? Do you still want to know about those?
    MOO
     
  12. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Yes please report broken quotes.
     
  13. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Here's the link to the transcript from last night's Crime & Justice with Ashleigh Banfield on HLN:

    CNN.com - Transcripts
     
  14. MerryB

    MerryB Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post, @Amandaaa. Always the voice of reason.
     
  15. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting read about Apple watches, being able to track movements and possibly exonerate SW from that ridiculous story about her killing the children.

    A cynical side of me, just can't believe that this family took out bankruptcy, less than 3 years ago (2015?), and yet they are living pretty well, Apple watches, private nursery school, new cars, fancy house.

    CW made $65,000 a year. That covers the basics, without a lot left over...SW was earning more, based on sales, but this can fluctuate. And the HOA fees, were being ignored. Interesting.

    I don't understand folks who live in debt, it is tremendous pressure to maintain that facade. At some point, everything crashes.
     
  16. tmar

    tmar Well-Known Member

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    Thepoet,
    I've studied photos of the truck and it looks like a work truck. Big tool box in the back and what looked like some type of equipment. Interesting that he told LE he went back in for tools, when truck was backed into garage, and yet he had a big tool box in the back of truck. What would he use at work AND home? Hmmmm?

    Yep Poet,
    What tools does he have inside the house, required for his journey?
    As another Poster has stated, a burial spade.
    The truck was backed in, so the bodies could be added.
     
  17. Layla123

    Layla123 Well-Known Member

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    AB 10/01/18
    1. Both CW and SW wore Apple watches. Source claims Prosecution is thoroughly investigating the data on both CW and SW’s watches. Guest, Technology expert, Mark Saltzman, explains what information their Apple watches might reveal. Series 3&4 Apple Watches (SW had an Series 3 Apple Watch) have the ability to be connected to a cellular network. Cellular network service costs an extra $10.00 per month, it’s optional. Cellular network service on an Apple Watch will enable the wearer of the watch to receive phone calls and text messages through their watch without having a connected iPhone near by, plus, the network tracks their movement from location to location, and the times they were there. If SW had that option plan, authorities will be able to gather that information. SW’s movements through her house will be recorded. The Series 3 Watch has a built in altimeter, so when SW went upstairs or downstairs that information was recorded. Everything SW did from the moment she arrived home will have been recorded if she had that cellular plan option. The watch also records heart rates. Presumably, during emotional conversations, or acts of child strangulation, one’s heart rate would increase, and if SW actually strangled her children, the fluctuations in SW’s heart rate will have been recorded, as will her movements from room to room. It won’t identify which rooms she was in, just the fact that she walked from place to place. Watch will provide more information if it was synched up to her iPhone. If CW’s version of events is true, presuming they were wearing their Apple Watches throughout the mayhem, investigators will see decreased and elevated heart rates. If SW set up the SOS feature on her watch, if there was some sort of trauma, (example, severe drop in heart rate) it could set off a 911 call for help. It can record the moment a heart stops. If CW murdered SW as soon as she returned home from her trip at 2am, her Watch would have recorded the exact time her heart stopped and would prove CW is lying. If SW was still wearing her watch after she died, when CW drove her to the oil field and buried her, all of CW’s movements and stops will have been recorded. As for CW’s watch, AB can’t tell if it’s a Series 3 Watch or not. The red dot identifying a Series 3 Apple Watch is not visible in any of CW’s photos. His watch may be older and not as high tech, or a Series 3 that doesn’t offer the cellular network option. If CW does have a Series 3 Watch and he was wearing it, it will have recorded him going downstairs after their emotional conversation if he really did go downstairs, and it also will have recorded an increase in his heart rate if he witnessed the deaths of his children, and when he strangled Shan’ann. Even if CW didn't have a Series 3 with the cellular option, much of his activity could have been recorded because they had WiFi. AB thinks all the electronic data captured in the Watts home from Apple watches and iPhones will be the star witness at CW’s trial.
    2. Tonight is CW’s 48th night in jail.
    3. Guest, Alexis Tereszcuk, Radar Online reporter, talks about People Magazine’s report that police told SW’s mother that CW is stunned that this case is getting so much press coverage, especially overseas. AB and Tereszcuk say he can’t be that surprised given how severe the fact pattern is in this case, but he’s probably surprised that his face is being shown all over the world, and he’s being called a murderer.
    4. CW hasn’t purchased any treats from the prison commissary. May still be on Close Watch/Suicide Watch.
    5. CW can order newspapers and magazines, but so far CW hasn’t ordered any.
    6. Guest, David Beller, Defense Attorney explained why Shanann Watts’ name is on the witness list. It could be a typo, or that she left a text messages, or a diary, or some other kind of written statement.
    7. In one of SW’s video posts, she posted a video of CW singing a children’s song while he was making hot dogs. On it she wrote #he’sgoingtokillme. That’s the kind of thing the Prosecution might use. As a victim, Shanann’s statements are not excluded as hearsay and are admissible.
    8. Guest, AB’s producer, Kyle Pelza, spoke about CW’s visitor log. If he’s not in Close Watch protocol, CW is limited to a total of 6 visitors. They can be changed out monthly, but he has to stick with those 6. They are logged, and the public has access to the names of those visitors. Since CW’s motion to have his visitors kept private was granted, we don’t know who his visitors are. Seems like they might be Defense experts. Court ruled that Prosecutors can’t have access to CW’s visitor log. Although the Court never said anything about public access, but they won’t release this information to AB.
    9. The Daily Beast reported that the girls’ baby blankets were missing. They also published an interview they conducted with an old football friend of CW who said CW was the kind of guy who wouldn’t hurt a fly, and he never saw CW get angry with anybody. He’s the kind of witness the Defense probably will want to put up in front of a jury.
    10. Who are CW’s Defense Attorneys, the Public Defenders, Katherine Herold and John Walsh? Herold has worked on some high profile cases. One was the case of a woman cutting out a fetus from pregnant woman, and another was the case of a man killing and dismembering his girlfriend. Herold is a talented and good lawyer.
    Viewer Questions
    1. Any way they will not seek the Death Penalty? Death penalty in Colorado is very rare. Since 1976 one person has been put to death in Colorado, never in Weld County. . Colorado, unlike other states has life in prison without parole, an option that juries prefer.
    2. I’m waiting on Chris to be exonerated soon. He is not guilty. Pray 4 Chris! I’m madly in love with him & the PASSION I feel towards him is immense. #Teamchris. This is a thing with some women. How does Prosecution make sure they don’t get a juror like this? Talented Attorneys are trained to ask the right questions. Crazy shows itself.

    11. Could SW’s family be putting together a wrongful death case against CW together? They could be, but if he doesn’t have any money, it’s not worth the effort.

    More Viewer Questions
    3. Is it possible that CW disposed of the kids that night before SW came home? It just seems like a lot of work in that period of time, actually sounds impossible. Guest Attorney, Mark Harold, explained it would take a lot of time. Interesting scenario. Someone taking multiple trips out to that oil field would up their chances of being caught. Stomach contents will tell.
    4. Why did CW put girls in two tanks rather than one? CW had familiarity with oil tanks. It does seem like it would have taken a lot more time to put them in 2 tanks, rather than just one . It’s possible that putting the girls in separate tanks may have been some sort of symbolic thing done with a loved one after death.
    5. Did SW not call home while she was gone and talk to kids or face time them? Cell Records will reveal if SW did this. Last 100 calls are logged. But there’s no way of telling who she talked to when she called home.
     
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  18. tmar

    tmar Well-Known Member

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    Layla123,
    I’m not criticizing the type of mower he used, I’m merely pointing out that it looks rather expensive, and the size of their lawn looks rather small, and a much less expensive push mower would suffice. IMO people who follow a strict budget know the difference between what they need and what they want, and try to conserve money based on that principle whenever they can.

    When moving house, I had 3 push mowers, which I used over the years, increasing in size, as required.
    I was able to sell all 3, when I decided lawns were not what I wanted.
    This provided exercise, on my small lawns.
     
  19. tmar

    tmar Well-Known Member

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    molly1255 and Mellowmelly like this.
  20. tmar

    tmar Well-Known Member

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