Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #38

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Hey Everyone,

    A bit of clarification.

    Please, no more discussion on the viability of Shanann's company or whether her company was or wasn't a pyramid scheme. No more digging up documents or complaints or anything to do with the function of the company. The fact is Shanann's company is not what we are discussing.

    If want to discuss if job stress may have contributed to Shanann and Chris' relationship problems please make sure it is in the realm of reality and not the Twilight Zone.

    Thank you,
    Tricia
     
  3. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

    Evidence of triple murder:

    1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

    2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

    3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

    4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
    a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
    b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

    5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

    6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
    In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

    7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

    8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

    9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

    10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

    11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
    A Global History of Child Death

    12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

    13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

    14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

    15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

    16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

    17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

    18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

    19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

    20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

    21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

    22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

    23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

    24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

    25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

    A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

    D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

    A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


    E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

    Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

    https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  4. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Please continue the discussion here and please keep the following points in mind:

    Welcome to all new members. Please take a moment to familiarize yourselves with our Rules and Terms of Service (TOS).

    Do NOT personalize your posts or direct them in any way toward another poster. This is not Facebook. Be respectful whether you agree with another poster or not. We have a helpful "ignore" feature if you can't stand to read a particular poster's thoughts. Otherwise, just scroll and roll if you do not have anything constructive to contribute to the line of discussion.

    Do not tell others how or what to post. Do not attempt to moderate the thread yourselves. Those are all TOS violations. Use the "Report" feature if you have a problem with a post or another poster and let the moderators handle it.

    Do NOT bring rumors and gossip here from Facebook. It is against TOS and it serves no purpose here other than to stir the pot. We are allowing discussion of the defense put forward by CW's legal team, but we will not allow or tolerate any bashing of SW or her children. Leave that nonsense on Facebook or expect to receive warning points and possibly a timeout.

    Thank you.
     
  5. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    NEW RULES! EVERYONE, PLEASE READ ASAP

    Hi Everyone,

    To say the Watts case has been a challenge is an understatement.

    I'll get right to the point.

    Ther have been so many pointless alerts, alerts by the same people against the same people, that Websleuths has come very close to the point of shutting down because we did not have the staff to cover the rest of the forum.

    Really. I'm not exaggerating.

    The Watts discussion had divided members as I have never seen before.

    We have some new rules. New rules for the Watts thread only.

    1 - You may alert on the same person twice in a current thread. If you go to alert a third time on that same person in the same thread, you must not alert. You have to ignore the person or scroll by. If the post is bad enough someone else will alert on it. If it works out to where some of the posts stand that should have been alerted on oh well.
    If you do alert more than two times on the same person on the same thread then it is an automatic FIVE DAY TIMEOUT.

    2 - We are starting fresh. No more Facebook drama. No drama from anywhere period. This thread is now a drama free zone

    3 - No more talking about other cases unless there is a legit reason to do so.

    4 - No more off-topic posts and this includes portions of your life you decide to reveal.

    5 - If you speculate on some aspect of this case your speculation must be based in reality. I think Chris and Shanann are lizard people from another planet is not a speculation based in reality. Did Chris and Shanann have money issues is a very logical speculation. If you are not sure whether you should speculate or not I would say do not. If you have any hesitation about your post please do not hit the reply button on the post.

    6 - Did I mention the new rule about alerts on the Watts thread only? You may alert two times on one poster per Watts discussion thread. If you alert a third on the same poster on the same thread it is an automatic FIVE -DAY timeout. Let someone else alert. If it is bad enough someone will catch it I promise.

    7 - Remember the "Ignore" feature is your friend. Use it, please?

    8 - If you mention any Facebook post, if you mention a story from Facebook, if you mention something from a random Facebook account that has not been approved by Websleuths first it is an automatic FIVE DAY time out.

    9 - We may add to this list. For right now this is everything I can think of at the moment.

    Thank you,
    Tricia.
    P.S. The new thread will be ready to go in the morning before 9;00 AM Tuesday
     
  6. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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  7. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Good morning! The Watts thread is open for discussion.

    [​IMG]

    link


     
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  8. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

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    Howdy y'all, good morning and g'day.
     
  9. Amandaaa

    Amandaaa Verified Attorney

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    Good morning -

    Last night, I had a number of questions posed to me. Unfortunately, I just can’t keep up with these threads, and could not review the background information (posts back and forth) leading to the ultimate question.

    I did my best to try to provide some information quickly, and it appears that some people thought I was not answering correctly. I apologize if my answers did not fully reflect the actual issue being discussed, but without reviewing the evolution of the discussion, the true nature of the question can sometimes be difficult to ascertain.

    I truly enjoy reading the posts on this forum, and plan to check in as time permits. Unfortunately, the demands of my professional and personal life just don’t allow me to stay current. You guys move way too fast! :)

    I will be more than happy to help whenever possible. If there are any questions, let me know - either by post or by PM. It would be super helpful to have the chain of quotes going back to the original, so I can be as accurate as possible. Also, please keep me posted of any new/exciting developments.

    Thank you :)
     
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  10. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

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    @gitana1 and @Mrspratcher

    If I understand the following correctly, if the person is convicted of a felonious killing in a criminal proceeding, after all right to appeal has been exhausted, such conviction is conclusive under the Slayer Statute. Thus, the killer’s right to inherit from the victim is extinguished and the killer is generally treated as though he or she predeceased the victim.

    Colorado Revised Statutes 2016 § 15-11-803 – Colorado Probate Code

    15-11-803. Effect of homicide on intestate succession, wills, trusts, joint assets, life insurance, and beneficiary designations.

    (1) Definitions. As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires:

    (b) "Felonious killing", except as provided in subsection (7) of this section, is the killing of the decedent by an individual who, as a result thereof, is convicted of, pleads guilty to, or enters a plea of nolo contendere to the crime of murder in the first or second degree or manslaughter, as said crimes are defined in sections 18-3-102 to 18-3-104, C.R.S.

    (2) Forfeiture of statutory benefits. An individual who feloniously kills the decedent forfeits all benefits with respect to the decedent's estate, including an intestate share, an elective share, an omitted spouse's or child's share, the decedent's homestead exemption under section 38-41-204, C.R.S., exempt property, and a family allowance. If the decedent died intestate, the decedent's intestate estate passes as if the killer disclaimed his or her intestate share.

    (b) Severs the interests of the decedent and killer in property held by them at the time of the killing as joint tenants with the right of survivorship or as community property with the right of
    survivorship, transforming the interests of the decedent and killer into tenancies in common.

    (6) Wrongful acquisition of property. A wrongful acquisition of property or interest by a killer not covered by this section shall be treated in accordance with the principle that a killer cannot profit from his or her wrong.

    (7) Felonious killing; how determined - time limitations on civil proceedings.
    (a) Criminal proceedings. After all right to appeal has been waived or exhausted following the entry of a judgment of conviction establishing criminal accountability for the felonious killing of the decedent, such judgment conclusively establishes the convicted individual as the decedent's killer for purposes of this section.

    https://leg.colorado.gov/sites/default/files/images/olls/crs2016-title-15.pdf (page 168)

    In your opinion would the property be sold, SW’s share distributed to her parents, and CW’s share held in trust until all appeals have been finalised?
     
  11. Mellowmelly

    Mellowmelly Well-Known Member

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    Good morning, should I say good afternoon from across the pond. Hopefully today will bring some new revelations and put a stop to all the rumours and speculation.
     
  12. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Too bad he didn't read this before he killed them.
     
  13. MollyDDD

    MollyDDD Well-Known Member

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    We’ll miss you Amandaaa.
     
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  14. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

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    @Mrspratcher

    I also wonder if he was really speeding through red lights when he knew his entire family was dead.

    Oh, I really believe that was the truth about speeding through the red lights. I don’t know where he was when NUA rang him and told him that she had called LE but I thought he told her that he’d be there in 5 minutes. That would be an excellent reason to drive through red lights. He told NUA that she was going to visit a friend that day, so why the huge rush to get home before LE. It seems to me there was something he absolutely wanted to retrieve from the house before they arrived. Too bad, LE got there first, and lucky for NUA that they did.
     
  15. Gardener1850

    Gardener1850 Remembering Cupcake

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    Thank you to @Gardenista for posting Shanann's blog last thread. I had not seen it before. I noticed Chris commented on some of her blog posts:
    Journey of Bella Marie: Bella Marie at 16 weeks

    I can't figure out if he was really in love with his wife and children or if he said sweet things like that because he was parroting what he thought a loving father would say. I'm leaning towards the latter-- Something just doesn't ring true to me about these words he wrote. They seem too perfect. But maybe I'm biased by the glaring fact that he took this baby he was eager to hold for the first time and shoved her little body into a crude oil tank only 5 years later. :(
     
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  16. MollyDDD

    MollyDDD Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, heaven sent.
     
  17. MollyDDD

    MollyDDD Well-Known Member

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    I recall reading a prior post that pointed out CW didn’t have many close relationships with women, or men.
    I wonder about his upbringing and personal family life sometimes. Just what makes a person do what he did.
     
  18. idfinch

    idfinch Well-Known Member

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    The comments he left do seem a bit scripted, like what you would see on a commercial for ultrasounds. If that makes sense. It makes me wonder if he wrote them or if she did. Or was he just like that all the time? Morphing into what he thought everyone wanted him to be?

    I have to believe he loved his children at one time. That's what makes this so baffling to me, along with every family annihalator case. That you could want a fresh start enough, that you could hate your wife enough to harm your children.

    One of the most poignant posts I've ever read on that very issue was by @pocketaccent (I'm pretty sure) a few threads back, and I've meant to find and quote it but haven't had time yet.

    I can't fathom how anyone could murder those sweet little girls. How could he? Those poor innocent babies.
     
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  19. rainynights

    rainynights Well-Known Member

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    True. I hadn't seen it either, and seemed to be another project of SW's that reflects how much of a planner she was. It's clear to me that she put some time into that blog, for the purpose of having a keepsake that she could share with BW when she got older. Sadly, that won't be the case.

    FWIW, CW's comments seem to all take place within about an hour of the same day, and seem to have been posted in response to July 27 posts, from what I saw. Just another example of something that seemed to be SW's passion, with CW perhaps following instructions, or doing what he thought was the right thing to do at that time. Jmo
     
  20. MerryB

    MerryB Well-Known Member

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    I do not believe this is accurate.
     
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