Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #4

[Sjm_qc]

I keep trying to catch up here, & I think I finally have.

Mostly just marking my place in the thread, but I have a couple of thoughts:

- the “alleged”/“reported” confession: IMO, the qualifiers are being used because LE hasn’t officially said so, although it’s been leaked/said by family & (what media see as) reliable sources

- I don’t believe everything I see/read on SM, especially when MLM is involved

- FWIW, I think SW’s plane arriving late screwed up his original “plan” (for varying values of “plan”), then her friend showing up and getting LE involved so fast screwed it even further

- I also think the doll photo on FB is a red herring and we’re only getting ourselves worked up about it because of what happened to Shanann, Bella & Cece.

Finally, I want to thank my fellow WSers who have bravely given testimony of their own experiences with psychologically abusive partners. Listen to them. Reread what they say/write. It can be insidious, very long lasting and extremely difficult to a) recognize; b) get away/stop the cycle.

 

[molly1255]

Colorado is a “super-lien” state. If you are delinquent for six months or more, the HOA can foreclose and it becomes ahead of the first mortgage holder. Colorado HOA Foreclosures

The above source also says some states require the first mortgage holder to be notified of HOA delinquencies so they can pay them in order to protect their position, but it doesn’t state specifically if that is the case in Colorado.

I don't live in CO, but a lot of subdivisions in my city have HOA's. I've had a HOA for my last two houses. At least once a year, a list of names of those who haven't paid is published and distributed to every residence in the subdivision. I know they have the legal power to put a lien against the house.

 

[Shekkiec]

The only thing that makes me think it wasn’t preplanned is Shannan was find in an open field area according to LE . If preplanned would henot have considered the body disposal ? Also maybe lure her somewhere else bc the home is heavily monitored with cameras by neighbors, key lock camera etc. These are the keys that implicated him.

 

[stmarysmead]

This case brings to mind the sad predicament of a church acquaintance who became involved/enthralled with this type of business “opportunity.” Remember that one’s status with the company depends on how much product they sell to YOU. This acquaintance became a temporary superstar by buying lots of product on her own credit card...without having sales to back up her expense.

Her thought was that eventually she would sell most of it...didn’t happen....but she was able to recruit on this phoney success. But to keep up her numbers and status, she got deeper and deeper in personal debt, stockpiling unsold stuff, in order to take the “free trips”, etc.

The unpaid HOA dues make me suspicious that something similar might be going on here.

 

[CARIIS]

Reposting from prior thread - Food For Thought !

Closet narcissism:

n 1993, Masterson proposed two categories for pathological narcissism, "exhibitionist" and "closet".[1] Those with both styles of disorder fail to adequately develop an age- and phase- appropriate self because of defects in the quality of psychological nurturing provided by the mother or caregiver. The exhibitionist narcissist is similar to that described in DSM-IV and differs from the closet narcissist in several important ways.

The closet narcissist is more likely to be described as having a deflated, inadequate self perception and greater awareness of emptiness within, and seeks to mend this with an unquestioning dedication to an idealized other. The exhibitionist narcissist would be described as having an inflated, grandiose self perception with little or no conscious awareness of the emptiness within. Such a person would assume that this condition was normal but seeks the admiration of others for reassurance.

There is an analogy here with Kohut's "idealizing" and "mirror" narcissists (Masterson's "closet" and "exhibitionistic" narcissists), and a relationship to the developmental theory of Daniel Stern.

“covert narcissist” (Akhtar & Thompson, 1982; Wink, 1991), “closet narcissist” (Masterson, 1993), the “hypervigilant narcissist” (Gabbard, 2009), and the “hypersensitive narcissist” (Hendin & Cheek, 1997).

the closet narcissist is obsessed with his or her unfilled expectations of the self. Consequently, the closet narcissist is absorbed in grandiose fantasies that are unrealistic given the individual’s lack of initiative and self-confidence (

ties in financial irresponsibility

defining features of the closet narcissist include a shy and modest demeanor, hypersensitivity to criticism and failure, and shame related to unachieved goals. In addition, the closet narcissist often admires and idealizes those who are successful; however, he or she secretly experiences envy of and resentment toward them (Wink, 1991).

Deep down they feel inadequate for not being perfect, they cover their feelings by winning the approval of others by feeling special to them. However, when others do not provide the validation or approval they seek, ace the pain of an empty self, reliant on others to feel good about themselves. So, they fall apart when not feeling acknowledged by their partner, since they are unable to cope with how they feel about themselves.



I thought the teachers comment about him being a perfectionist interesting and her endless adoration of him on SM fits the bill



https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/874f/924ea2922255ab33981a84945c85fc2d9376.pdf

CARIIS, Yesterday at 9:01 AMReport
#1338

 

[CARIIS]

more on covert :

The closet narcissist relies on an idealised partner to feel good enough. The partner can be the attractive younger woman or the wealthy business man, whom they admire for their attributes. The partner is often attractive, wealthy, smart or an empath, with all of the supplies that are required so that they do not have to face their empty self. The possessive, controlling and insecure behaviour of the closet narcissist is an attempt to keep their partner fused with them, so that they can feel special in relation to them. Any breaks in the fusion disrupt this feeling, whereby they are left with the emptiness of their real impaired self. They want their partner to be at one with them, on the same page.

If the partner forms their own separate opinion, does not appear perfect or wants to separate from them, than this bond is broken. The narcissist feels lost, like a part of them is missing when the other is not on the same page as them, causing them to attempt to re-fuse with the partner, by being persuasive or pressuring them to agree with them.

This can be controlling them, so they do not leave, convincing them on how to behave or even going as far as buying their love in order to have ownership of them. Some will even meet their partners expectations, to keep them where they want them. The idealised partner is a prize or possession that they control, who is a source of need fulfilment.

avoid being in the spot light, hiding in the shadow of an idealised partner by preferring to bask in glow of them, to cover up feelings of inadequacy.

neighbor describing his as shy stuck out

void exposing themselves in case others see them as not perfect, covering up to avoid feeling a fraud for not being perfect.

our marriage is awesome- in reality ,this far, the only internet stuff we have from him is about failed marriage - always smiling in every pic

They will tell you what you want to hear, instead of what they actually think,

who really knows regarding the next baby reaction

Can appear shy, polite,

• Because they cannot sustain the real connection of an intimate relationship the relationship falls apart and feels empty and void of connection.

see his presentation!

not accepting their partners thoughts or feelings, not listening to how they can feel trapped in the relationship because they cannot be themselves.

back to presentation

Unlike the grandiose narcissist who can discard their partner, the closet narcissist cannot let go of them, holding onto them

feel empty or inadequate, so they try to re-fuse to stay in a relationship

situations can escalate into domestic violence, anger, jealously, insecurity, mistrust, stalking or paranoia when their partner moves away from the relationship, in order to obtain their own self. The possible break in fusion is so threatening that the narcissist cannot cope without fusing with an idealised partner who can make them feel grandiose.

When the partner stands up for themselves or attempts to leave the relationship, the narcissist falls apart or reacts with narcissistic rage,


When the narcissist feels hurt, they can hit back to discharge their pain that they are feeling. When their wife leaves them for another man or wants custody of the children, the narcissist suffers deep pain of a deflating self, and often resorts to revenge to get back at them. Many narcissists’ will be spiteful by taking their partner for everything they’ve got and destroying their life completely.

How to detect a covert narcissist - signs to identify narcissists

CARIIS, Yesterday at 9:12 AMReport
#1342

 

[Sjm_qc]

The only thing that makes me think it wasn’t preplanned is Shannan was find in an open field area according to LE . If preplanned would henot have considered the body disposal ? Also maybe lure her somewhere else bc the home is heavily monitored with cameras by neighbors, key lock camera etc. These are the keys that implicated him.

1. I think he initially ran out of time because of her plane arriving late, then thought he would have more time (regarding body disposal/moving Shanann/“staging” the house) before making a MP report. I think Nicole (SW’s friend) turning up when she did threw a HUGE spanner in his plans.

2. I’m not sure he knew about the neighbours’ camera.

 

[nothinonyou]

sorry if this has been discussed, but I think it's likely he was molesting the kids and the mom found out...
Also, why is he building a defence if he has confessed?

 

[RL2]

She was 15 weeks pregnant so that would be roughly May 12 week or so for a conception . What was the date of her fb video vs her stay in NC? I know he was there the first week but his reaction to the pregnancy news was odd. Could he bc money strain, marital problems or he was cheating and wanting out. But in NC if everyone knew SW wanted to leave , I’m just trying to gage his reaction

Actually, pregnancy is calculated from the first day of the last menstrual period (LMP). The week of May 12th (1st week of pregnancy as counted back from her being 15 weeks pregnant at the time) wouldn’t be week of conception. Conception is an average of 14 days AFTER the LMP, when ovulation occurs. So, that would make the week of May 20-26th the actual week of conception.

 

[Sjm_qc]

sorry if this has been discussed, but I think it's likely he was molesting the kids and the mom found out...
Also, why is he building a defence if he has confessed?

BBM: we don’t know that he is doing so. Remember that he hasn’t YET actually been charged.

IMO, IME, the defence lawyer is doing a standard job regarding his client. IANAL, but there are all sorts of reasons to file various motions, work on a defence, even when a suspect has (allegedly) confessed.

For example: mitigating circumstances, avoiding the death penalty, preparing for a possible plea deal, and/or simply following the Law.

 

[Yellow Rose]

I know that this has been said before but strangling isn’t such an upfront, personal one on one method of murder and I just cannot even imagine doing that to two beautiful little girls that I created! It just floors me! That is the very definition of cold blooded.

 

[stmarysmead]

I wonder what the significance is of the double post two hours apart on June 12 on FB about a house for sale in North Carolina?

 

[Thinker Belle]

What do we know about this Thrive supplement that her and husband were using? I’ve read random comments on FB that some users felt unexplained rage and mood swings while using it. Others said they felt emotionless while it wore off. I have no experience or knowledge of the product though so I’d be curious to find out more about it.

 

[enelram]

Is it possible or has it even been done that a defense atty. would request a paternity test of the unborn child?

 

[PommyMommy]

Ok this is creepy. CW YouTube video presentation on “The deterioration of relationships” from 2012

He said, "Sometimes when you're in a relationship and your relationship starts to deteriorate, a child could help repair it." Between this, what AT said and what she says on her SM, I am in the HE wanted another child and the pregnancy was planned camp.

 

[The Farm]

Is it possible or has it even been done that a defense atty. would request a paternity test of the unborn child?

Thinking that once they get into their cell phones and computers if anything is hinted that this might be a possibility if they will order DNA on all of the children.

 

[BUF]

Waiting to hear the information in the arrest affidavit. Although they say Monday, it could actually be Tuesday when he is due back in court at 10:00 and he is formally charged.

Chris Watts' affidavit expected to be made public Monday

 

[BUF]

Thinking that once they get into their cell phones and computers if anything is hinted that this might be a possibility if they will order DNA on all of the children.

I'm sure they will do this anyway.

 

[enelram]

He said, "Sometimes when you're in a relationship and your relationship starts to deteriorate, a child could help repair it." Between this, what AT said and what she says on her SM, I am in the HE wanted another child and the pregnancy was planned camp.

Literature on abusive, controlling men shows pregnancy can be
used as another rope that binds the woman to a man who believes
he is losing control in the relationship. Quite common, IMO.
So maybe he thought it would slow her down, career-wise and bring her back into the fold of the family. As busy as she was,
it seems obvious he was not getting the attention from her that
he wanted. He was no longer the center of her universe.

 

[TTF14]

The only thing that makes me think it wasn’t preplanned is Shannan was find in an open field area according to LE . If preplanned would henot have considered the body disposal ? Also maybe lure her somewhere else bc the home is heavily monitored with cameras by neighbors, key lock camera etc. These are the keys that implicated him.

Her delayed flight likely threw his plan off. Anyone know how long it was delayed? Had he already murdered the girls when he found out it was delayed, so he had to go through with the plan?