Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #42

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

    Evidence of triple murder:

    1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

    2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

    3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

    4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
    a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
    b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

    5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

    6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
    In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

    7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

    8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

    9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

    10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

    11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
    A Global History of Child Death

    12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

    13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

    14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

    15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

    16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

    17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

    18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

    19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

    20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

    21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

    22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

    23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

    24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

    25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

    A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

    D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

    A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


    E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

    Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

    https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  3. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Please continue the discussion here and please keep the following points in mind:

    Welcome to all new members. Please take a moment to familiarize yourselves with our Rules and Terms of Service (TOS).

    Do NOT personalize your posts or direct them in any way toward another poster. This is not Facebook. Be respectful whether you agree with another poster or not. We have a helpful "ignore" feature if you can't stand to read a particular poster's thoughts. Otherwise, just scroll and roll if you do not have anything constructive to contribute to the line of discussion.

    Do not tell others how or what to post. Do not attempt to moderate the thread yourselves. Those are all TOS violations. Use the "Report" feature if you have a problem with a post or another poster and let the moderators handle it.

    Do NOT bring rumors and gossip here from Facebook. It is against TOS and it serves no purpose here other than to stir the pot. We are allowing discussion of the defense put forward by CW's legal team, but we will not allow or tolerate any bashing of SW or her children. Leave that nonsense on Facebook or expect to receive warning points and possibly a timeout.

    Thank you.
     
  4. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    NEW RULES! EVERYONE, PLEASE READ ASAP

    Hi Everyone,

    To say the Watts case has been a challenge is an understatement.

    I'll get right to the point.

    Ther have been so many pointless alerts, alerts by the same people against the same people, that Websleuths has come very close to the point of shutting down because we did not have the staff to cover the rest of the forum.

    Really. I'm not exaggerating.

    The Watts discussion had divided members as I have never seen before.

    We have some new rules. New rules for the Watts thread only.

    1 - You may alert on the same person twice in a current thread. If you go to alert a third time on that same person in the same thread, you must not alert. You have to ignore the person or scroll by. If the post is bad enough someone else will alert on it. If it works out to where some of the posts stand that should have been alerted on oh well.
    If you do alert more than two times on the same person on the same thread then it is an automatic FIVE DAY TIMEOUT.

    2 - We are starting fresh. No more Facebook drama. No drama from anywhere period. This thread is now a drama free zone

    3 - No more talking about other cases unless there is a legit reason to do so.

    4 - No more off-topic posts and this includes portions of your life you decide to reveal.

    5 - If you speculate on some aspect of this case your speculation must be based in reality. I think Chris and Shanann are lizard people from another planet is not a speculation based in reality. Did Chris and Shanann have money issues is a very logical speculation. If you are not sure whether you should speculate or not I would say do not. If you have any hesitation about your post please do not hit the reply button on the post.

    6 - Did I mention the new rule about alerts on the Watts thread only? You may alert two times on one poster per Watts discussion thread. If you alert a third on the same poster on the same thread it is an automatic FIVE -DAY timeout. Let someone else alert. If it is bad enough someone will catch it I promise.

    7 - Remember the "Ignore" feature is your friend. Use it, please?

    8 - If you mention any Facebook post, if you mention a story from Facebook, if you mention something from a random Facebook account that has not been approved by Websleuths first it is an automatic FIVE DAY time out.

    9 - We may add to this list. For right now this is everything I can think of at the moment.

    Thank you,
    Tricia.
    P.S. The new thread will be ready to go in the morning before 9;00 AM Tuesday
     
  5. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    MOD NOTE

    This is friendly reminder to stay on topic and stop the personalized posts and bickering. Step away from the keyboard for a while if you find that you are getting agitated.

    Also, please do not discuss the possible motivations or identities of any VIs unless the VIs themselves decide to tell us those details. Keep your VI discussion limited to the content of their posts, not speculation about why they may or may not have said something.

    Thank you.
     
  6. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    MOD NOTE

    And now for a slightly less friendly reminder. Discussing moderation on a thread is a major TOS violation that results in an automatic timeout.

    If you have concerns about moderation, please alert on the post that concerns you or privately message any moderator and we will be happy to help.

    The next person to bring up moderation or whether or not someone was treated fairly or whether or not posts were removed, will be timed out.
     
  7. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Let's leave CW's parents out of this discussion at this time except for anything reported by mainstream media about them. For example, I think it was reported at the beginning of this case that CW spoke with his father before making his confession. That is fine to discuss, with a link to the article or news video.

    Do not speculate about why CW's family has or has not spoken out publicly or any of their supposed actions. They are considered victims at this time. We have no evidence that anyone in CW's family had any prior knowledge that CW was going to murder anyone or that they helped CW after the murders occurred.

    I'm going to give CW's family the benefit of the doubt that they are likely in shock at the events that have occurred.
     
  8. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    STOP the parenting debate now, everyone. This is one of the fastest ways to get a thread shut down. Do you all remember the recent family annihilator case of the Hart family? The 2 moms who drove their entire family off a cliff, killing everyone? We no longer have an open thread for that case primarily because members made everything personal and turned the thread into a giant parenting debate and pretty much forgot about the missing and murdered children.

    We're not going to do that in this case, okay? When you or I or my next door neighbor puts their children to bed or wakes them up does not matter. Whether we give our kids sugar or think it's poison does not matter.

    Please stay on topic. This is about Shan'ann's murder and the murder of her beautiful children. It's not about you, me, or anyone else. Don't take posts personally.
     
  9. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Please continue the discussion here and please keep all of the previous posts on this page and all previous moderator warnings in mind before you post.
     
  10. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Good morning! The Watts thread is now open for posting.


    [​IMG]

    link
     
  11. kkdj

    kkdj Well-Known Member

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    Good morning! What a beautiful picture to start the morning with!
     
  12. Tippy Lynn

    Tippy Lynn Well-Known Member

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    For those that are still exploring possibilities. I came across this and thought it was interesting.

    CRAWFORDSVILLE, Ind. -- A judge has sentenced a central Indiana woman to 120 years in prison for fatally stabbing her young children hours after her husband filed for divorce.

    When the dispatcher asked Worley what caused her to do that, she replied, "My husband wanted a divorce and wanted to take my kids. And I don't want him to have my kids."

    Mom who killed kids hours after husband filed for divorce is sentenced to 120 years
     
  13. kkdj

    kkdj Well-Known Member

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    She didn't make up stories to the media and hide them. CW did because he was hoping to get away with their murders.
     
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  14. kebdal23

    kebdal23 Well-Known Member

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    I've been doing a lot of reading to catch up with the fast pace of the threads. Until we have new information, all I have to say is that he fits the profile of a family annihilator (FA) to a tee. Also, although many of you aren't convinced of this, narcissists have such a big ego that they think everyone will just "believe" their explanations, which is why there were so many loose ends he hadn't tied up at home - he thought his explanations would believed and that would buy him more time. JMO - I could be wrong, but I'd bet money on this.
     
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  15. Tippy Lynn

    Tippy Lynn Well-Known Member

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    I realize it's not a cookie cutter scenario. The media interviews and the actions CW took after the fact are bizarre and unexplainable to me. The point I was looking at is the fact that mothers have killed their children when the father wanted out of the marriage.
    jmo
     
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  16. Tippy Lynn

    Tippy Lynn Well-Known Member

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    I know exactly what you are saying and I can see how you and others would see them and this case the way you do, but I don't see CW and SW the way so many others do. I absolutely hate being the minority on here. It would be so much easier for me to see it the way you and others do, but I can't.
    jmo
     
  17. kkdj

    kkdj Well-Known Member

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    I understood your point but imo it doesn't fit this scenario. CW's story simply doesn't ring true for me. He did not call for help and he hid his daughters bodies in crude oil containers. That is the truth. Then he gave lying interviews to the media and lied to the police to save himself.....not his children and most certainly not SW's reputation. That, to me, is such a weak lie, such a crock.
    Of course we have stories of crazy mothers killing their own children and for a variety of reasons. But imo that is not what we have here. What we have here, imo, is another father who killed his wife and children, hid them and lied looking calm and even laughing.
     
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  18. Medstudies

    Medstudies Well-Known Member

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    Right? BW did it in anger phoned 911 immediately following to confess. She pleaded guilty in January 2018.

    Other things that differ: JW did not kill her the same way she killed the kids. JW did not hide all the bodies. Nor did he tell friends she took the kids on a play date, without her phone, car, purse.

    I’m looking for cases where someone hides the killer of their children as well as the children. In oil tanks. Because. Protect the killers image. And stuff.

    Still looking...
     
  19. BabyButterfly

    BabyButterfly Well-Known Member

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    Just thinking out loud. Many of my friends were FB friends with CW. They all say he deleted his account the week he was in NC. Maybe he told his AP he was going there to end it with SW, but instead SW was tagging him in family pictures etc. Showing that it was more a family vacation? ( As far as I can tell, all those posts are not showing on SW fb anymore) I personally deleted CW when his FB turned into a thrive ad. So I only have info from mutual friends.
     
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  20. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    Good morning, Kebda. :)

    I don't know how long you've been following and I know it's hard to read every post here, but back in thread #18, relative to possible narcissism, MindHunter13, our Verified Forensic Psychologist Expert stated that he can comfortably say that CW shows no signs of narcissism and that there was nothing overtly present to suggest extreme emotional disturbance.

    CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #18

    CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #18
     
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