Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[Charlot123]

Uh, Lemak gave her children her drugs. She slashed her wrists and called 911 the day after she murdered her children. I have no idea what you mean by SW being "highly functional." Depressed people function just fine, as Marilyn Lemak proved.

I'm allowed to express my opinion on this forum. Everyone here knows opinions are not facts and are allowed. JMO

Surely everyone is allowed to express his opinion, and who said that plurality of opinions is bad for a fast-paced forum?

But given your interest in ancient history, I would dare to repeat the phrase that I have already cited here. It is from Latin. "De mortuis nil nisi bonum", "about the dead, nothing but good", means that it is not socially appropriate to speak ill of the dead, simply because they are not here to defend themselves. And while it is not an ironclad rule, better to minimally abide by it. Because what if it is proven beyond reasonable doubt, in the course of the trial, that CW killed them all? How would everyone criticizing SW for everything she did in life feel?

 

[mrjitty]

We had a lot of discussion about that in earlier threads. We were all asking the attorneys, about how the defense could try and get that story in, without putting him on the stand.

IIRC, the consensus seemed to be that they would have to rely upon the interrogation tapes. The state will surely want to introduce some of them. Which opens the door for the defense to play the portions they want to be seen.

But it won't be as 'convincing' as it could be if he took the stand.

Agreed

We've seen this type of case 100 times before.

The defense don't have any version they can actually prove and the burden is on the prosecution.

So they will use the illegitimate tactic of henpecking all the circumstantial evidence with wild speculation, hoping to bamboozle some jurors into thinking there is a possibility CW did it.

For every piece of evidence, an unlikely explanation will be offered, in the hope that all that unlikely stuff adds up to one longshot possibility.

Of course it's highly illogical when you stand back and look at all the evidence we know of so far, and the judge will warn the jury about that.

 

[ColoradoLove]

SW "latched onto" CW? Seriously? I think she had a choice in the matter and doubt a jury will buy such an absurd theory.
JMO

No, I stated that Chris latched onto Shanann at first, when they met. It was the classic "vivacious social butterfly attracts quiet, shy wallflower" dynamic. I never implied that she didn't have a choice in the matter, I think it's plainly obvious how much she loved and adored him, lifting him up and complimenting him, helping him come out of his shell. IMO, he loved what she did for his life, for a while, but then it became too much, too stressful, and he became increasingly, but quietly resentful until it got to the point of having an affair and realizing he didn't want that life anymore. So he detached to the point of being able to make them all just quietly go away, ensuring that he would be seen as the poor grieving father with the missing family instead of just another divorced dad with 3 kids. The ultimate form of non-confrontation and saving his reputation.

 

[Amandaaa]

What a great post for our VI Colorado DA/Prosecutor @Amandaaa to explain Colorado murder statute applied to the victims resulted in 5 murder charges. I'm confident she'll confirm the charges have nothing to do with DA and/or his office desiring publicity.

The Weld County District Attorney's Office on Monday formally charged Christopher Watts with three counts of first-degree murder after deliberation for the deaths of Shanann, Celeste and Bella Watts, along with two counts of first-degree murder for causing the death of a person under the age of 12 while being in a position of trust. He also faces one count of unlawful termination of a pregnancy and three counts of tampering with a deceased body.
Christopher Watts hears charges in slayings of wife, daughters in Colorado

in my experience, it is not unusual at all. I have no reason to believe they were motivated by publicity.

 

[MyBelle]

Surely everyone is allowed to express his opinion, and who said that plurality of opinions is bad for a fast-paced forum?

But given your interest in ancient history, I would dare to repeat the phrase that I have already cited here. It is from Latin. "De mortuis nil nisi bonum", "about the dead, nothing but good", means that it is not socially appropriate to speak ill of the dead, simply because they are not here to defend themselves. And while it is not an ironclad rule, better to minimally abide by it. Because what if it is proven beyond reasonable doubt, in the course of the trial, that CW killed them all? How would everyone criticizing SW for everything she did in life feel?

You stated as fact that Marilyn Lemak experienced depression in 1995. That's news to me. Given my interest in ancient history and all (according to you) please provide a link because the Lemak murders were in 1999.
Thanks.

 

[MyBelle]

Agreed

We've seen this type of case 100 times before.

The defense don't have any version they can actually prove and the burden is on the prosecution.

So they will use the illegitimate tactic of henpecking all the circumstantial evidence with wild speculation, hoping to bamboozle some jurors into thinking there is a possibility CW did it.

For every piece of evidence, an unlikely explanation will be offered, in the hope that all that unlikely stuff adds up to one longshot possibility.

Of course it's highly illogical when you stand back and look at all the evidence we know of so far, and the judge will warn the jury about that.

The burden of proof is squarely on the prosecution, not the defense. I'm not sure what "henpecking" means. The defense is allowed to provide a defense and some can be very effective in providing the jury with reasonable doubt. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

in my experience, it is not unusual at all. I have no reason to believe they were motivated by publicity.

I am fascinated by this.

In my old school common law training back in the 90s (the horror of crimes lectures at 8am with a fearsome lecturer!) we learned of charging in the alternative

But it was not possible to generate two murder charges out of the same homicide

Is this a special criminal initiative in Colorado?

Presumably to allow extra heavy sentence in the victim is a dependent under 12 years?

 

[MyBelle]

No, I stated that Chris latched onto Shanann at first, when they met. It was the classic "vivacious social butterfly attracts quiet, shy wallflower" dynamic. I never implied that she didn't have a choice in the matter, I think it's plainly obvious how much she loved and adored him, lifting him up and complimenting him, helping him come out of his shell. IMO, he loved what she did for his life, for a while, but then it became too much, too stressful, and he became increasingly, but quietly resentful until it got to the point of having an affair and realizing he didn't want that life anymore. So he detached to the point of being able to make them all just quietly go away, ensuring that he would be seen as the poor grieving father with the missing family instead of just another divorced dad with 3 kids. The ultimate form of non-confrontation and saving his reputation.

I think you are assuming a lot of what was going on in CW's mind without any basis in fact. Fathers don't just "detach" from their children. JMO

 

[katydid23]

I think you are assuming a lot of what was going on in CW's mind without any basis in fact. Fathers don't just "detach" from their children. JMO

Sure they do.

 

[LittleFleurDeLys]

@MyBelle
Please don't take this offensive, I'm really asking out of interest (no intention to start a fight! ): but what exactly on this case made you believe that Shannan was more likely the killer of the children than Chris?

For me it seems very clear that he killed them all - due to the circumstances that he had at least one affair and the disposal of their bodies. These are the main reasons for me to consider him as guilty.

What led you to believe that Shannan killed them instead? I think this would be an interesting thing to know!

 

[mrjitty]

The burden of proof is squarely on the prosecution, not the defense. I'm not sure what "henpecking" means. The defense is allowed to provide a defense and some can be very effective in providing the jury with reasonable doubt. JMO

The jury is required to first consider which circumstantial evidential points have been proven, and only then move on to factual inferences.

This is because multiple circumstantial points make certain conclusions more likely.

Hen pecking is where the defence invites the jury to indulge in wild speculation on a point by point basis.

It's a form of logical fallacy - but can be very effective when your defence consists of mudslinging.

 

[MyBelle]

And when did he perform CPR anyway? Before he killed SW? If so, what did he do, just push her off and she just sat there? Because we didn't see any defense wounds on CW. If he pushed her off and tried to revive CC, seems to me SW would still be raging and probably hitting and clawing at him. I would also imagine some screaming and yelling would be going on. Or did he wait and spend the 5-7 minutes choking SW and then perform CPR when it would obviously be too late? We know it's actually neither because he didn't try to save anyone. He killed them.

Why would defense wounds on CW be visible? He was dressed in interviews. Why are you assuming screaming and yelling would be heard by neighbors? That's a stretch. One doesn't need to be fully dressed to perform CPR. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

They can be, yes - but they can also be used for pleas. I’ve just learned to listen to my intuition when something seems out of the ordinary - and this one does.

Could be a plea - could be something else - or could be nothing.

The good thing is, we don’t have to wait long to find out

Thanks for your insights into local Court Procedure!

 

[MyBelle]

@MyBelle
Please don't take this offensive, I'm really asking out of interest (no intention to start a fight! ): but what exactly on this case made you believe that Shannan was more likely the killer of the children than Chris?

For me it seems very clear that he killed them all - due to the circumstances that he had at least one affair and the disposal of their bodies. These are the main reasons for me to consider him as guilty.

What led you to believe that Shannan killed them instead? I think this would be an interesting thing to know!

SW's behavior on the videos in attempting to portray her life as "perfect" and the fact CW was having an affair. SW's life was not perfect, no matter how much she pretended it to be. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

No, I stated that Chris latched onto Shanann at first, when they met. It was the classic "vivacious social butterfly attracts quiet, shy wallflower" dynamic. I never implied that she didn't have a choice in the matter, I think it's plainly obvious how much she loved and adored him, lifting him up and complimenting him, helping him come out of his shell. IMO, he loved what she did for his life, for a while, but then it became too much, too stressful, and he became increasingly, but quietly resentful until it got to the point of having an affair and realizing he didn't want that life anymore. So he detached to the point of being able to make them all just quietly go away, ensuring that he would be seen as the poor grieving father with the missing family instead of just another divorced dad with 3 kids. The ultimate form of non-confrontation and saving his reputation.

There is no evidence Chris "latched onto Shanann at first." None. That's pure fantasy that SW planted to cultivate her "perfect" life. Fathers who love their children don't just quietly "go away." They fight in court and courts listen to them. To assume fathers quietly go away is a also myth of fantasy. JMO

 

[Amandaaa]

I am fascinated by this.

In my old school common law training back in the 90s (the horror of crimes lectures at 8am with a fearsome lecturer!) we learned of charging in the alternative

But it was not possible to generate two murder charges out of the same homicide

Is this a special criminal initiative in Colorado?

Presumably to allow extra heavy sentence in the victim is a dependent under 12 years?

I’m not familiar with the origins of the specific charge - but I agree, it’s fascinating.

 

[MyBelle]

They can be, yes - but they can also be used for pleas. I’ve just learned to listen to my intuition when something seems out of the ordinary - and this one does.

Could be a plea - could be something else - or could be nothing.

The good thing is, we don’t have to wait long to find out

thank you.

 

[LittleFleurDeLys]

SW's behavior on the videos in attempting to portray her life as "perfect" and the fact CW was having an affair. SW's life was not perfect, no matter how much she pretended it to be. JMO

Thank you for your honesty! I see what you mean. And I think this kind of explanations are very important for us to understand other points of view. Even if we do not agree to each other.

 

[RachB65]

Anyone that really doesn't want any more children doesn't leave birth control to someone else. IMO

I just think it messed up that he convinced her to have another baby, she got preg, he seemed happy...Yet he told a VI he asked to separate numerous times. After getting SW pregnant? Thats a total IMHO

 

[molly1255]

SW's behavior on the videos in attempting to portray her life as "perfect" and the fact CW was having an affair. SW's life was not perfect, no matter how much she pretended it to be. JMO

I'm curious about why you think it matters if SW portrayed a perfect life on SM? CW went along with this on SM. He was in many of her videos, acting supportive, playing with kids, etc. '

If she was being a phony on SM, then so was he.

The fact that CW was having an affair was all on him. That was his decision alone and he made it behind SW's back. SW had no say in this, and she know about it, at least for a period of time. An affair is never a way to bring about a positive resolution to marital problems, as it does the exact opposite.