Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #45

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

    Evidence of triple murder:

    1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

    2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

    3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

    4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
    a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
    b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

    5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

    6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
    In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

    7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

    8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

    9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

    10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

    11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
    A Global History of Child Death

    12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

    13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

    14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

    15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

    16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

    17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

    18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

    19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

    20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

    21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

    22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

    23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

    24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

    25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

    A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

    D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

    A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


    E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

    Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

    https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  3. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Please continue the discussion here and please keep the following points in mind:

    Welcome to all new members. Please take a moment to familiarize yourselves with our Rules and Terms of Service (TOS).

    Do NOT personalize your posts or direct them in any way toward another poster. This is not Facebook. Be respectful whether you agree with another poster or not. We have a helpful "ignore" feature if you can't stand to read a particular poster's thoughts. Otherwise, just scroll and roll if you do not have anything constructive to contribute to the line of discussion.

    Do not tell others how or what to post. Do not attempt to moderate the thread yourselves. Those are all TOS violations. Use the "Report" feature if you have a problem with a post or another poster and let the moderators handle it.

    Do NOT bring rumors and gossip here from Facebook. It is against TOS and it serves no purpose here other than to stir the pot. We are allowing discussion of the defense put forward by CW's legal team, but we will not allow or tolerate any bashing of SW or her children. Leave that nonsense on Facebook or expect to receive warning points and possibly a timeout.

    Thank you.
     
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  4. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    NEW RULES! EVERYONE, PLEASE READ ASAP

    Hi Everyone,

    To say the Watts case has been a challenge is an understatement.

    I'll get right to the point.

    Ther have been so many pointless alerts, alerts by the same people against the same people, that Websleuths has come very close to the point of shutting down because we did not have the staff to cover the rest of the forum.

    Really. I'm not exaggerating.

    The Watts discussion had divided members as I have never seen before.

    We have some new rules. New rules for the Watts thread only.

    1 - You may alert on the same person twice in a current thread. If you go to alert a third time on that same person in the same thread, you must not alert. You have to ignore the person or scroll by. If the post is bad enough someone else will alert on it. If it works out to where some of the posts stand that should have been alerted on oh well.
    If you do alert more than two times on the same person on the same thread then it is an automatic FIVE DAY TIMEOUT.

    2 - We are starting fresh. No more Facebook drama. No drama from anywhere period. This thread is now a drama free zone

    3 - No more talking about other cases unless there is a legit reason to do so.

    4 - No more off-topic posts and this includes portions of your life you decide to reveal.

    5 - If you speculate on some aspect of this case your speculation must be based in reality. I think Chris and Shanann are lizard people from another planet is not a speculation based in reality. Did Chris and Shanann have money issues is a very logical speculation. If you are not sure whether you should speculate or not I would say do not. If you have any hesitation about your post please do not hit the reply button on the post.

    6 - Did I mention the new rule about alerts on the Watts thread only? You may alert two times on one poster per Watts discussion thread. If you alert a third on the same poster on the same thread it is an automatic FIVE -DAY timeout. Let someone else alert. If it is bad enough someone will catch it I promise.

    7 - Remember the "Ignore" feature is your friend. Use it, please?

    8 - If you mention any Facebook post, if you mention a story from Facebook, if you mention something from a random Facebook account that has not been approved by Websleuths first it is an automatic FIVE DAY time out.

    9 - We may add to this list. For right now this is everything I can think of at the moment.

    Thank you,
    Tricia.
    P.S. The new thread will be ready to go in the morning before 9;00 AM Tuesday
     
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  5. Gardener1850

    Gardener1850 Remembering Cupcake

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  6. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    MOD NOTE

    Please continue the discussion here and keep the following points in mind:

    1. DO NOT personalize your posts to each other. Stick to discussing the case, not each other. Several of you need to put each other on Ignore. If you fail to do so, the moderators will privately ask you to put each other on Ignore. If you still do not heed the warning, you will be banned from posting in this thread for an indefinite period of time.

    2. Wild speculation is not allowed on WS. Even theories and guesses have to be rooted in reality and the known facts of the case. If we allow wild speculation, rumors start and then people begin repeating rumors as if they are facts. Start with what is known in the case. Your theories must be plausible as well, based on what we know to be true so far.

    3. DO NOT alert on posts that disagree with your opinion or point of view and claim that you are being bullied. This is a discussion forum and we expect and welcome different opinions and points of view. I suggest listening to each other and really thinking about your reply before you respond to another poster. If you cannot do this respectfully, then you need to scroll and roll or put the other poster on Ignore (see number 1 above). If you cannot do either of these things, then you probably should not post in this case.
     
  7. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

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    I still have to read most of the last thread. I'll try and catch up tomorrow. Unfortunately what I've read tonight is a repetition in more ways than one of previous threads.
     
  8. Thepoet

    Thepoet Well-Known Member

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    Well, tomorrow can't come soon enough and unfortunately I have a very busy day planned. Looks like I'll be playing catch-up much later in the day. I will be surprised if the hearing is anything other than just organization and logistics.
     
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  9. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    No, I don't think so. I think that the person who confirmed that version was the same person that originally said it was inaccurate. IMO, it was not 2 different people confirming.

    Keep in mind, that is the same person that said they knew about CW's affair from the start. So that tells us that they were very close friends with CW, but not very close with SW, if they never told her about it.

    So I doubt they were unbiased. JMO
     
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  10. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    Bringing over from the previous thread:
    I am not aware that CW’s legal team has shared their defense strategy, but for the sake of discussion, the affidavit says:

    Prior to Chris' confession investigators arrived at CERVI 319 (with consent) to initiate a drone search of the area. At approximately 4:15 PM investigators spotted a bed sheet in the field near the tank battery. The sheet matched the pattern of several pillow cases and a top sheet recovered from a kitchen trash can from the Watt's residence early that day. That searched was conducted with prior consent provided by Chris. The drone search also revealed fresh movement of dirt consistent with a clandestine grave near the oil tanks.
    https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/Warrantless Arrest Affidavit.pdf

    Yes, they had him prior to his confession. There is no ambiguity there. (ie: Nothing is "blurred," as you say.) MOO
     
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  11. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    @MyBelle

    I don't know how to link posts from the previous thread, but - surprisingly - I found nothing in Wikipedia about Lemak. However, the article from Chicago Tribune that you have mentioned at least, tells something about her, at least. It is from there.

    "By 1995, family members have said, she was struggling with depression. Two years later, she filed for divorce the first time, but changed her mind".

    Insanity or vengeance?

    "Interest of ancient history" was prompted by your mentioning Medusa Gorgon. She comes straight from ancient history/mythology and authors debate whether she is a horrible chtonic creature or an unhappy, once beautiful, woman punished by Athena, unjustly. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  12. lilaismyname

    lilaismyname Former Member

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    that is what i think too -- hey the 19th is close to the madness of T-Giving !
     
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  13. NuttMegg

    NuttMegg Well-Known Member

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    In addition to that, his confession was not "quick" he let those little girls soak in crude oil for several days.
     
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  14. Tortoise

    Tortoise Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how to quote from a previous thread but I will see how this goes -

    Posted by @lilaismyname

    Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

    I understood it differently from the affidavit;

    "Prior to Chris' confession investigators arrived at CERVI 319 (with consent) to initiate a drone search of the area."
     
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  15. Tortoise

    Tortoise Well-Known Member

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    Sorry pommymommy I see we have raised the same point. Out of interest how do we quote from a different thread?
     
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  16. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    liliismyname posted:




    T
    hank You for the well thought out post. Although I don't fully agree.

    The above description of his behavior leaves out a lot of other alarming info about he he acted during this incident.


    Sure, we can just say he freaked out, and was worried about being to work on time, so that why he stuffed his babies bodies down into the oil tank.


    But WHY did he even decide to dispose of the bodies, if he wasn’t the killer? Why destroy all of the evidence at the crime scene, the only real way to prove his innocence, and take such a grisly risk? I cannot get past that decision.


    Why not call 911 when he saw his first child, sprawled out, blue? Why not scream at the top of his lungs for HEEELLPPPPP, and maybe push the panic button on their alarm system?


    Why spend 7 precious minutes strangling his wife, when he could have focused on saving his babies? Instead of calling for medical intervention to try and revive them, he ended up killing his last surviving child instead.


    His behavior makes no sense, if one tries to imagine he was innocent.


    You say above, that getting to work on time was his main priority. WHY would he care? He just caught his wife murdering his children. Why would he care about getting to work on time?
     
  17. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    I suspect that because it all happened in a rather small area, people who were friends with SW would run into CW and his AP but not tell SW. As it often happens. People start guessing but don't tell the wife hoping that she'll find it out from someone else.

    Perhaps this is why NUA got so scared when CW did not show up for her appointment. People were already guessing, it was merely not out in the open.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  18. bonjoviblonde

    bonjoviblonde Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying CW told LE where the bodies were but then left to go pick up his father at the airport after he had confessed to dumping their bodies?
     
  19. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    No worries! When there's a post near the end of a thread that I want to reply to, I click the quote button, insert it into the text box and copy/paste the whole thing into the text box in the new thread. Once the thread is closed and you no longer have the quote option, it gets more complicated. I think you have to type
    although I've never tried that. At that point, I just link the post. MOO
     
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  20. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    My reading of the Affidavit is also that LEF found the grave prior to the confession

    This is most likely how they broke him
     
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