Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #51

[margarita25]

That would be so foolish of them imo.
Will Shannan's family and CW's family be in the courtroom at the same time to give their impact statements? It would be so difficult for Shannan's family to be around CW's family, let alone listen to their statements.
Then, I would imagine there will be press afterwards and who knows what CW's mom will say. Ugh.

Did SW’s family and the in-laws congregate together before all this, holidays, etc?

—-

(Again if you see someone in a giraffe mask giving CW the evil eye on Monday...)

 

[kkdj]

I wonder if the other people who claim to have had sexual affairs with him will now emerge and be interviewed?

I'm thinking the obvious affair with NK was a new experience to CW. He seems like he was a giddy kid in a candy store. I'm doubting the truth of the other affairs at this point.

 

[PommyMommy]

Yes, but Nickole is also Shan'ann's best friend's name. Do we know who chose the baby's name?

I don't think we know, but it would also be helpful to know when they chose the name. Was it prior to mid-June when CW met NK?

I'd also throw NT's name in the mix. His full name may be Nicolas (not sleuthing him! )

Nicole (NAU) - Shanann's idea?
Nick (NT) - CW and Shanann's idea?
Nichol (AP) - CW's idea?

MOO

 

[erik28]

Extended Interview: Cindy Watts, Chris Watts' mother, questions son's plea deal

It is my understanding that Cindy Watts reached out to news media to give interviews about her concerns in her son CW's plea agreement. I feel conflicted watching those interviews and making comment, knowing that she is both a surviving-victim of terrible crimes that will impact her for the rest of her days, and the parent of the admitted perpetrator who is simultaneously trying to help and save him as much as she can, and at terrible cost to one of his victims and her survivors.

Looking at her from the perspective of the parent of a family inhalator, two things from the extended interview stand out to me sharply:
1. Only the briefest mention in passing of her other child, and nothing in particular in relationship to the childhood of the perpetrator and any sibling impact/influence/experience

2. No substantive answer to the question how did S.W. come into C.W.'s life
Transcript (start at 2:20)
Interviewer: "When and where did he meet Shan'ann?"

Cindy Watts: "They met and he liked her, she liked him, but, it didn't, I don't think, it was like love at first sight or anything, they. They took a little while, and I guess got to know each other, and uh, you know, dated." Then Cindy Watts drives her response toward her negative perceptions of Shan'ann from the beginning. I'm not going to transcribe that.

The answer, to a short question, has no "when" and no "where".

Are there psychology professionals on the board who use the Adult Attachment Interview and have any thoughts about how Cindy Watts conveys the narrative of her son's growing up?

One of the main reasons I ask is because I grew up with a parent like Cindy Watts who couldn't give a straight answer to the most innocuous of questions and still immediately contradicts bold statements, as in Cindy's statement that when she finally did see her son near the time of his plea (paraphrased for 11:05) C.W. was crying, split second changed to he wasn't crying, changed to you could see he was holding back tears. Just preceding in that section of the interview she says "they" wouldn't let her talk to him, and then describes how she talked to him... But to editorialize... it wasn't when/where/how/what she wanted, so it doesn't seemed to have counted in her thinking, because she keeps repeating that she wasn't allowed to talk to him, and that is the misnomer that gets picked up and amplified by others who don't have time to look past tweets and headlines.

I've seen other people on here posting about their experiences as children in families where parents talk this way. I was hoping a professional might give us a bit of food for deeper thought. It seems like there is a very disorganized attachment going on there. Not that it would excuse Cindy's or Chris' behavior, but I thought it might help other forum members help to understand their experiences that sound so similar.

eta: link to Adult Attachment Interview Protocol http://www.psychology.sunysb.edu/attachment/measures/content/aai_interview.pdf

 

[kkdj]

This could get volatile outside the courthouse on Monday......lots of emotions from both sides. I'm sure there will be lots of security tho.

 

[MCDRAW]

Extended interview with Cindy Watts. Wow! Watch this. The things she says.
Extended Interview: Cindy Watts, Chris Watts' mother, questions son's plea deal

If this had been her first interview, I would have perceived her differently. I have never expected her to quit loving her son. Nor did I expect her to pretend to like Shanann. I did expect her to have some respect. She is wrong when she said, people don't understand why I love my son.I think everyone understands the love of a mother. That has never been my issue. My issue has always been that she places ALL the blame on Shanann. There are lots of unhappy marriages, that isn't a reason to kill. No matter how horrible she thought Shanann was, her son proved to be worse.


Maybe it is all sinking in. I wish it had or she had handled it better before, because those other interviews have hurt her reputation. IMO Shame on those people for using a mother's pain. I still will never understand why her husband didn't stop her and if he couldn't he shouldn't have taken part.

Now if she comes out with any thing else bad about Shanann...the sympathy is gone.

 

[Charlot123]

Hi Everyone,

It has been a wild few days right?

About the woman, Nichol Kessinger, who came forward and honestly told her story of dating Chris.

Please remember there was nothing she could have found in a Google search or even a background check that would have given her a hint about
Chris Watts and what kind of person he was. He told her he had a wife and 2 kids. Granted he did say he was getting divorced but that doesn't mean the
divorce papers could be found online at the time. If Nicole asked Chris why the divorce papers were not online he would have come up with a very plausible.
explanation.

I would greatly appreciate if everyone would back off from their negative or judgemental comments about Nichol. She is living a nightmare. She doesn't need strangers judging her.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Tricia

Tricia,

I am here because I absolutely detest the way people are discussing things on social media. This is by far the most courteous, smart, fast-paced forum for which the best word is "finesse". Thank you for creating it.

Obviously, since the interviw with NK was published yesterday, it is being discussed. Where is line between "discussing" and "judging" drawn, I don't know. It does not seem that anyone is judging NK here. Because it is not about NK, it is about CW, but the story adds to the general picture of CW.
It is my sincere belief that in no way should we blame NK for the tragedy because if we do, we might as well start blaming all other APs with whom CW cheated on SW. And the choice for cheating was his, and only his. I am only happy that no one else got killed by this monster.

As well as the decision to annihilate the family was Chris's, and Chris's only. He was the father in whose custody the kids remained when SW left for her trip. He was the husband who impregnated his wife and lied to everyone that he was a free man. People are gullible. They believe what they want to believe. I remember how his classmates mentioned that all girls were "secretly in love" with Chris Watts. For some reason, he must have been very attractive to women. NK and others probably saw him as a nice, "softspoken" man. A pleaser. A "yes" man. And as I am looking at the videos of Chris in Denver, walking with CeCe on his shoulders, obviously such a loving dad - how can I imagine that he would be the brute who strangled his wife, inflicting so much pain on her? That the same CeCe he was carrying he coldly planned to murder, and did murder?

I am totally for increased security in prisons, for being more civilized, but where Chris Watts ends up, I don't care anymore.

I only feel very sorry for Shanann. Somehow I imagined he strangled her in her sleep. But if he did it so brutally, beating up the woman pregnant with his child, what a horrible, horrible creature he must have been.

I also hope this story will end up soon. I am somewhat captivated by it, because it is a rare situation, and also, as the mom and the wife, I am trying to understand what is the teaching value of this case, for all of us, women.

 

[PommyMommy]

Chris Watts, who killed wife and daughters, 'lied about everything,' mistress says
One month before the killings, Chris Watts, 33, started dating Kessinger, she told the newspaper. They met through work in June, she said.

Chris Watts texted Kessinger that his wife took the girls to a play-date and never returned -- but he appeared nonchalant and emotionless, she told the newspaper.

Kessinger told the paper she peppered her boyfriend with questions but said he would try to change the subject.

Christopher Watts’ ex-girlfriend says he lied to her about the disappearance of his wife and daughters
The ex-girlfriend of a Colorado man who pleaded guilty to murdering his pregnant wife and their two young daughters described how he lied to her throughout their relationship and sent a chilling text message the day his family disappeared.

She said Watts had also texted her the day his family vanished saying they were "gone."

“It got to a point that he was telling me so many lies that I eventually told him that I did not want to speak to him again until his family was found,” she said.

 

[kkdj]

Is there any knowledge of CW being physically abusive in his marriage prior to the murders? I'm suspicious of this. Many women (and men) stay in abusive relationships, especially with children, not knowing how to get out or thinking they can fix it.

 

[katydid23]

[Bold By Me]

They are getting very puffed up with their own importance. If this 'letter' was of any importance it would be in the hands of the defence team, not a couple of jumped up Miss Marple's with a blog/podcast.

If indeed they do get it 'tested' - after grifting the $$$'s to pay from it out of their gullible supporters - I fully expect the resulting hilarity to be on a par with the comically inept and irrelevant 'Letter to the Judge' their pal submitted to the Court.

EDITED by me to change 'Prosecution' to 'defence'

Wait...I thought the defense 'destroyed' that letter....how'd they get it back?

 

[MCDRAW]

Good grief, Cindy watts causes my blood pressure to rise. I don’t blame her at all but she seems like she might be under the influence. She has a slightly thick tongue and trouble finishing a thought like my mom does after she takes Xanax.
But, wow. I wanted to grab through the screen and yell back at her every time she said, “how did this happen to him? Why did this happen to him?” It happened because of him for crying out loud. Chris is not the victim!!!!!!
And, she clearly does not think there was anything wrong with Chris murdering his pregnant wife. She hates her so much that she almost acts like that was the good part of the night.
Grrrrr... now I wish I had a Xanax.
Tl;dr... rambling.

Honestly, I would be on Xanax too if my son was convicted of these crimes. I would also be asking myself, how did this happen? I have been fooled by a quite child. I know this from the death of my brother, the questions will drive you crazy. One day, hopefully, she will realize the killings weren't because of Shanann but because of something inside her son.

 

[NuttMegg]

Every time I read "Podcast people" I think about "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" and the "Pod People"! LOL!

I really question my own sanity each time I listen to that drivel. Here I am old, and should be spending my time on AARP bulletins. One of them went on and on about the terrible violent DEADLY fight between CW/SW saying over and over it was a real "TEMPEST IN A TEAPOT". I knew something was wacko with that usage:

A Tempest in a Teapot means "a small event that has been exaggerated out of proportion." (Wiki)
Or "A small or unimportant event that is over-reacted to, as if it were of considerably more consequence."
'Tempest in a teapot' - the meaning and origin of this phrase

 

[Only4Justice]

I don't think I would think to sleuth their spouse. I would look them up to make sure they didn't have a criminal record. And I'd look up their social media to see what there're into.

But I wouldn't be scanning through their friend's lists or trying to find out who their ex is.

I really wouldn't have thought of that. Maybe I'm in my own little world and a bit stupid not to think of that.

But I can't be the only one.

I'm not a jealous or suspicious person. Just cautious.

Thanks @gitana1. I am not either possessive or jealous.

I want to say thanks to those brave souls that listened to the podcasts. I couldn't do it, so I appreciate being able to read on here.

I did watch Mrs Watts extended interview. I have to agree she is showing signs that is slowly having to think of the possibility that her son did these crimes.

Sadly I wish she never went in tv for her own sake. She is fully in the grief process for her son, and you can see her actively processing stuff as the interview unfolds. IMO her lack of emotion suggests she either lacks emotion (personality feature) , saw her grandchildren as an extension of either parent or has not fully grasped the idea that they are dead and not coming back. She is completely fixated on her son, which I can partially understand as she is trying to make sense of how this possibly happened.

Unfortunately despite all this again her interview was all about her. I recognize she was asked her opinion but the amount of I's was telling. Even at the end when asked about SWs family and how they feel, she struggled to drum up an answer and quickly drew herself back into the equation.. Eg we are all victims and have all experienced loss. She doesn't recognize and may never do that they have all lost because of her son. HER son!

It continues to disgust me that she will victim blame her dead DIL as if it's all her fault that CW changed into the monster he now is.

Sadly, this case is a learning lesson to other parents out there. Clearly CW's parents never intentionally raised him to turn out this way. They obviously valued education and providing him access to everything he wanted eg sports, nascar etc. However, I hope she learns that undermining his relationship with his wife has huge implications. Obviously it's not specifically the reason for these crimes but it's a contributing factor to the toxicity that would have dominated their lives. CW would have constantly felt like he had to chose one over the other, and be in a constant state of keeping the peace.

Obviously Mrs Watts only saw them twice a year which is not much. She stresses that CW was always anxious and blames that on SW. I can tell you now that if I was trying to deal with an overbearing mother who hated my partner I would be anxious too.

Agree. Great post.

 

[PommyMommy]

It is my understanding that Cindy Watts reached out to news media to give interviews about her concerns in her son CW's plea agreement. I feel conflicted watching those interviews and making comment, knowing that she is both a surviving-victim of terrible crimes that will impact her for the rest of her days, and the parent of the admitted perpetrator who is simultaneously trying to help and save him as much as she can, and at terrible cost to one of his victims and her survivors.

Looking at her from the perspective of the parent of a family inhalator, two things from the extended interview stand out to me sharply:
1. Only the briefest mention in passing of her other child, and nothing in particular in relationship to the childhood of the perpetrator and any sibling impact/influence/experience

2. No substantive answer to the question how did S.W. come into C.W.'s life
Transcript (start at 2:20)
Interviewer: "When and where did he meet Shan'ann?"

Cindy Watts: "They met and he liked her, she liked him, but, it didn't, I don't think, it was like love at first sight or anything, they. They took a little while, and I guess got to know each other, and uh, you know, dated." Then Cindy Watts drives her response toward her negative perceptions of Shan'ann from the beginning. I'm not going to transcribe that.

The answer, to a short question, has no "when" and no "where".

Are there psychology professionals on the board who use the Adult Attachment Interview and have any thoughts about how Cindy Watts conveys the narrative of her son's growing up?

One of the main reasons I ask is because I grew up with a parent like Cindy Watts who couldn't give a straight answer to the most innocuous of questions and still immediately contradicts bold statements, as in Cindy's statement that when she finally did see her son near the time of his plea (paraphrased for 11:05) C.W. was crying, split second changed to he wasn't crying, changed to you could see he was holding back tears. Just preceding in that section of the interview she says "they" wouldn't let her talk to him, and then describes how she talked to him... But to editorialize... it wasn't when/where/how/what she wanted, so it doesn't seemed to have counted in her thinking, because she keeps repeating that she wasn't allowed to talk to him, and that is the misnomer that gets picked up and amplified by others who don't have time to look past tweets and headlines.

I've seen other people on here posting about their experiences as children in families where parents talk this way. I was hoping a professional might give us a bit of food for deeper thought. It seems like there is a very disorganized attachment going on there. Not that it would excuse Cindy's or Chris' behavior, but I thought it might help other forum members help to understand their experiences that sound so similar.

eta: link to Adult Attachment Interview Protocol http://www.psychology.sunysb.edu/attachment/measures/content/aai_interview.pdf

@stereopticons, are you available to help us? MOO

 

[Thepoet]

Chris Watts, who killed wife and daughters, 'lied about everything,' mistress says
One month before the killings, Chris Watts, 33, started dating Kessinger, she told the newspaper. They met through work in June, she said.

Chris Watts texted Kessinger that his wife took the girls to a play-date and never returned -- but he appeared nonchalant and emotionless, she told the newspaper.

Kessinger told the paper she peppered her boyfriend with questions but said he would try to change the subject.

Christopher Watts’ ex-girlfriend says he lied to her about the disappearance of his wife and daughters
The ex-girlfriend of a Colorado man who pleaded guilty to murdering his pregnant wife and their two young daughters described how he lied to her throughout their relationship and sent a chilling text message the day his family disappeared.

She said Watts had also texted her the day his family vanished saying they were "gone."

“It got to a point that he was telling me so many lies that I eventually told him that I did not want to speak to him again until his family was found,” she said.

Great post! Thanks.
{{{SCARY!}}}

 

[ReckoningDay]

Monday cannot get here soon enough.

 

[Thepoet]

I really question my own sanity each time I listen to that drivel. Here I am old, and should be spending my time on AARP bulletins. One of them went on and on about the terrible violent DEADLY fight between CW/SW saying over and over it was a real "TEMPEST IN A TEAPOT". I knew something was wacko with that usage:

A Tempest in a Teapot means "a small event that has been exaggerated out of proportion." (Wiki)
Or "A small or unimportant event that is over-reacted to, as if it were of considerably more consequence."
'Tempest in a teapot' - the meaning and origin of this phrase

Yes, you're right. That speaks to me about the person's education and intelligence.

 

[PommyMommy]

Great post! Thanks.
{{{SCARY!}}}

Yes, it is scary. Her testimony at trial would have been extremely damning.

• He said he was separated and at the end of divorce proceedings.
• He told her the mutual divorce was almost final, and they were working out financial details.
  
• At the end of July, he called to tell her that his divorce was final.
  
• He asked her to help him find an apartment that would be good for him and his daughters
  
• On Aug 13, he texted her to say that he had been busy. They chatted like normal throughout the day.
  
• At 3:45 he texted her that his family was "gone."
• He appeared nonchalant and emotionless.
• She peppered her boyfriend with questions but said he would try to change the subject.
• And more...

MOO

 

[Tortoise]

Extended Interview: Cindy Watts, Chris Watts' mother, questions son's plea deal

It is my understanding that Cindy Watts reached out to news media to give interviews about her concerns in her son CW's plea agreement. I feel conflicted watching those interviews and making comment, knowing that she is both a surviving-victim of terrible crimes that will impact her for the rest of her days, and the parent of the admitted perpetrator who is simultaneously trying to help and save him as much as she can, and at terrible cost to one of his victims and her survivors.

Looking at her from the perspective of the parent of a family inhalator, two things from the extended interview stand out to me sharply:
1. Only the briefest mention in passing of her other child, and nothing in particular in relationship to the childhood of the perpetrator and any sibling impact/influence/experience

2. No substantive answer to the question how did S.W. come into C.W.'s life
Transcript (start at 2:20)
Interviewer: "When and where did he meet Shan'ann?"

Cindy Watts: "They met and he liked her, she liked him, but, it didn't, I don't think, it was like love at first sight or anything, they. They took a little while, and I guess got to know each other, and uh, you know, dated." Then Cindy Watts drives her response toward her negative perceptions of Shan'ann from the beginning. I'm not going to transcribe that.

The answer, to a short question, has no "when" and no "where".

Are there psychology professionals on the board who use the Adult Attachment Interview and have any thoughts about how Cindy Watts conveys the narrative of her son's growing up?

One of the main reasons I ask is because I grew up with a parent like Cindy Watts who couldn't give a straight answer to the most innocuous of questions and still immediately contradicts bold statements, as in Cindy's statement that when she finally did see her son near the time of his plea (paraphrased for 11:05) C.W. was crying, split second changed to he wasn't crying, changed to you could see he was holding back tears. Just preceding in that section of the interview she says "they" wouldn't let her talk to him, and then describes how she talked to him... But to editorialize... it wasn't when/where/how/what she wanted, so it doesn't seemed to have counted in her thinking, because she keeps repeating that she wasn't allowed to talk to him, and that is the misnomer that gets picked up and amplified by others who don't have time to look past tweets and headlines.

I've seen other people on here posting about their experiences as children in families where parents talk this way. I was hoping a professional might give us a bit of food for deeper thought. It seems like there is a very disorganized attachment going on there. Not that it would excuse Cindy's or Chris' behavior, but I thought it might help other forum members help to understand their experiences that sound so similar.

eta: link to Adult Attachment Interview Protocol http://www.psychology.sunysb.edu/attachment/measures/content/aai_interview.pdf

My very inexpert opinion, until you get a reply from a professional, is that these are the signs of manipulation and avoidance at work and it's not difficult to see where CW gets it from.

Very thought provoking post and observations. Thank you.

 

[NuttMegg]

Yes, it is scary. Her testimony at trial would have been extremely damning.

• He said he was separated and at the end of divorce proceedings.
• He told her the mutual divorce was almost final, and they were working out financial details.
  
• At the end of July, he called to tell her that his divorce was final.
  
• He asked her to help him find an apartment that would be good for him and his daughters
  
• On Aug 13, he texted her to say that he had been busy. They chatted like normal throughout the day.
  
• At 3:45 he texted her that his family was "gone."
• He appeared nonchalant and emotionless.
• She peppered her boyfriend with questions but said he would try to change the subject.
• And more...

MOO

I bet there is a LOT more.