GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #59

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Please continue the discussion here. NK has turned out not to be a victim, but you still cannot call her names or wish violence against her. Just refer to her as NK or Nichol. Name calling and wishing violence upon anyone violate TOS no matter who is being discussed. And do not sleuth her family.
     
  3. Mitch11

    Mitch11 Well-Known Member

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    I have just been putting together this list of 'potential' difficulties that CW 'may' have faced in childhood. This information is gleened from the information we have discussed so far. Please feel free to correct any information that maybe incorrect or add your own opinion/findings etc. Obviously we do not know these things definitively happened to CW, so they are suggestions of his potential upbringing (rather than fact).


    Family enmeshment:

    Signs we know of:
    Mother over-involvement in CW life and relationship with SW.

    Mother disrespects and undermines others beliefs/parenting techniques and boundaries (eg nut incident, comments about SW as a mother)

    Power games with them both (e.g. wedding planning, not attending wedding or children's parties, nut incident),

    Their identity as a family may be built upon their children’s success. Eg their talk on his past achievements (eg sports, nascar).

    Threatened when CW married and moved across the country (eg CW responsible for dads increase in drinking, their comments about SW)

    CW may have taken on a caretaker role towards RW’s drinking

    Family dynamics look like they were built on power and submission, rather than equality and respect.


    Effects of enmeshment on an adult: A failure to adequately develop an individual sense of identity and self-esteem, A difficulty regulating one’s own emotions, feeling controlled by others causing them to emotionally withdraw, negatively affect on relationships, difficulty developing appropriate and balanced friendships and difficulties with trust outside immediate family, fear of intimacy as relationships seen as emotionally draining, may seek out relationships in which they are responsible for caring for a partner, repeating what was learned in childhood.


    Fathers substance abuse issues:
    The nature of substance abuse can reduce a child's experience with making friends, so later they may have difficulty with intimate relationships. CW does have issues in these areas

    Addiction tendencies may be familial -both socially modelled and possible genetic trait?

    Impact of growing up with this: overlaps with enmeshment traits, particularly around loss of identity, feelings of responsibility, used to playing the role of the caregiver, may have an excessive need to be in control in order to balance out the chaos in their lives. Or they may constantly need approval, to reassure themselves that they have value. Some become aggressive.


    Attachment
    Mrs Watts described as cold and overbearing. Although its reported he has a close relationship with his dad, he will still be impacted by his relationship with his mother. There are numerous issues that arise from having an in-secure attachment.


    Social modelling
    His family have socially modeled the following:

    Women are domineering.

    Men avoid to cope, rather than confront (eg Dad used substances as a form of escape most likely).

    Unkind behaviour towards others

    No respect for personal boundaries



    Social and emotional development

    Guaranteed CW grew up in an invalidating environment.

    Emotions likely to not be acknowledged let alone expressed, which is a huge issue as this causes someone to lack emotional awareness and stunts development.

    Love and kindness probably 'rewarded' only when doing something right. Therefore, love becomes associated with doing what someone else wants, not inherently given. This will be linked to wanting to be seen as ‘good’.

    Socially he had few friends and lacked a dating history. The question remains why was that? Lack of interest, fear of parental opinion? Etc. This isn’t always an issue, however in this case it is suggests why he was so excited by the prospect of the affair he was having and the thrill he was getting from this.

    Supposedly his sister was 'naughty'. This may be a sign of issues at home (although cannot definitely say this). However, children take up roles in a family. CW has taken up the 'good' boy role, which would be a partial contributor to why he wants to save face and be seen as ‘good’


    Empathy

    Others say he was kind and caring

    Seems empathic towards NK. Why? (Concerned about her being dragged in to the case).

    Important to differentiate between empathy and sympathy. Psychopaths and sociopaths use empathy (not sympathy) to learn about a person and use this in a self-fulfilling manner (eg for their own purpose).

    Psychopath vs sociopath – no criminal history that we are aware, indicates CW is not a psychopath, but rather a sociopath.



    ** There is obviously a lot more that can be added to this””
     
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  4. Gardener1850

    Gardener1850 Remembering Cupcake

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    Did we talk about CW calling NK 5 times between midnight and around 2 AM on Aug 14th?

    Discovery Pg 1120 (top five calls-- the number ending in 1702 was his personal cell):
    upload_2018-11-26_20-18-13.png
    Christopher Watts discovery file | Garage (Residential) | Bathroom

    I kind of scanned past this before. Wondering what the significance was? Did NK explain those calls?
     
  5. Amstorrs

    Amstorrs Well-Known Member

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    I see a lot of people talking about Chris being a narcissist, and I agree. He is likely a narcissistic sociopath. Disclaimer: I’ve never met him and while I’ve worked as a professional for people with abnormal psychology, behaviors, mental health, and personality disorders for many years, I can no way diagnose ANYONE, let alone someone I’ve never met.

    That being said, please keep in mind as I explain, that I am VERY familiar with dealing with and recognizing personality disorders.

    My ex husband was a narcissist. It took me 5 years of living with this man to realize this. It’s hard to imagine how it took so long, and looking back all the signs and red flags are there. But as adults, these men (and women) have spent their entire lives covering up their lack of empathy and manipulating everyone around them. Shannan likely didn’t see his underlying manipulation, and people close to her likely didn’t either. My mother still thinks my ex husband is a wonderful guy and that I exaggerate the issues he causes.

    People often confuse sociopaths with psychopaths. The two are not interchangeable. Psychopaths are much more likely to be filled with rage and act out violently. Narcissistic sociopaths aren’t usually any more violent than a person without a personality disorder. It’s completely possible (and likely, based on how others have described Chris) that he wasn’t filled with rage at all. In the documents it’s even stated that the act of strangling Shannan was calm and methodical (unsure of actual terms used but same idea), not something done in a fit of anger.

    In reality, he probably was NOT angry at Shannan or the girls for anything, including getting in the way of his new relationship. But narcissists have trouble forming meaningful relationships and emotional bonds, and the people in their lives are disposable. They care about themselves and what makes them happy. His thinking was more along the lines of “problem solving”. ‘Nichol makes me happy. My family is no longer what’s making me happy. I should get rid of my family.’
     
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  6. Tuliptiptoe

    Tuliptiptoe Well-Known Member

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  7. Tippy Lynn

    Tippy Lynn Well-Known Member

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    Bringing @katydid23 post over....
    It is interesting looking back, and remembering when a few mentioned there was likely 'a letter' of some kind ---possibly a confession or a suicide note. And when questioned on it, why they thought there was, it was ' we can wait and see.'

    Makes me wonder if there was someone whispering in their ears, promising them there was a note to be revealed soon?




    I mentioned the possibility of a suicide note or letter and when I was questioned about it I said it was just a possibility and we would have to wait and see. For me it was pure speculation and thinking of different scenarios. I didn’t have anyone bending my ear and I wasn’t following FB groups either.
     
  8. violet101

    violet101 Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone pick up the email address of Chris where it said he logged into fb with? It’s the one where they got a search warrant and asked fb for info. It’s very strange as it’s the email as one of SW’s friends. Maybe it was just a mistype?
     
  9. Tuliptiptoe

    Tuliptiptoe Well-Known Member

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    Did we ever get answers on if NK can still be charged with anything ?

    Maybe missing info because they aren't done with her yet?
     
  10. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    It is interesting looking back, and remembering when a few mentioned there was likely 'a letter' of some kind ---possibly a confession or a suicide note. And when questioned on it, why they thought there was, it was ' we can wait and see.'

    Makes me wonder if there was someone whispering in their ears, promising them there was a note to be revealed soon? [ I posted this^^^ about 30 seconds before it closed]


    I was so curious, at the time, why there was so much certainty that there was a letter out there, that hadn't yet been revealed. I think some of our embers were being lied to and messed with, offline. JMO
     
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  11. Jennifer17

    Jennifer17 Former Member

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    What could she be charged with? Hindering an investigation?
     
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  12. Jennifer17

    Jennifer17 Former Member

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    Agree.
     
  13. CalmSeas

    CalmSeas Active Member

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    I’m so glad this is being discussed, I have never seen such atrocious, devious and malicious behavior in one family. It is so disturbing! It would almost have to be hereditary psychopathy, wouldn’t it? Nature plus nurture?

    ETA - excellent post, Mitch11!
     
  14. Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats

    Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats Well-Known Member

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    I think if they currently had something on her they would have already charged her, maybe they are still investigating her.
     
  15. Tuliptiptoe

    Tuliptiptoe Well-Known Member

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    I would think so

    It was explained she probably wouldn't be because it's small potatoes compared to CW. Was just wondering though - there seems to be a lot of follow up questions you'd think they'd have asked that aren't in there.

    Moo
     
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  16. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

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    I don't think I'll ever recover from reading how CW simply told SW, his 15 week pregnant wife, that they were "not compatible," and he didn't think he wanted the baby. If I didn't know better, I would never believe this was a conversation between a husband and wife together for 8 years. Unbelievable... (Discovery pg. 97).
     
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  17. nwmouse

    nwmouse Verified cheese addict.

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    I'm pretty sure NK's attorney locked in immunity when NK came forward to LE? (after googling Amber Frey's book deal and if people liked AF or hated her.)
    Hopefully others can chime in here.

    moo
     
  18. Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats

    Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats Well-Known Member

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    He sounds like a teenager who got his girlfriend pregnant.
     
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  19. nwmouse

    nwmouse Verified cheese addict.

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    Shows his lousy, weak character.
    What a tool.

    edited to moo
     
  20. molly1255

    molly1255 Well-Known Member

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    His cruelty and selfishness knew no bounds.
     
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