GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #60

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Please continue the discussion here. NK has turned out not to be a victim, but you still cannot call her names or wish violence against her. Just refer to her as NK or Nichol. Name calling and wishing violence upon anyone violate TOS no matter who is being discussed. And do not sleuth her family.
     
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  3. Mitch11

    Mitch11 Well-Known Member

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    I have just been putting together this list of 'potential' difficulties that CW 'may' have faced in childhood. This information is gleened from the information we have discussed so far. Please feel free to correct any information that maybe incorrect or add your own opinion/findings etc. Obviously we do not know these things definitively happened to CW, so they are suggestions of his potential upbringing (rather than fact).


    Family enmeshment:

    Signs we know of:
    Mother over-involvement in CW life and relationship with SW.

    Mother disrespects and undermines others beliefs/parenting techniques and boundaries (eg nut incident, comments about SW as a mother)

    Power games with them both (e.g. wedding planning, not attending wedding or children's parties, nut incident),

    Their identity as a family may be built upon their children’s success. Eg their talk on his past achievements (eg sports, nascar).

    Threatened when CW married and moved across the country (eg CW responsible for dads increase in drinking, their comments about SW)

    CW may have taken on a caretaker role towards RW’s drinking

    Family dynamics look like they were built on power and submission, rather than equality and respect.


    Effects of enmeshment on an adult: A failure to adequately develop an individual sense of identity and self-esteem, A difficulty regulating one’s own emotions, feeling controlled by others causing them to emotionally withdraw, negatively affect on relationships, difficulty developing appropriate and balanced friendships and difficulties with trust outside immediate family, fear of intimacy as relationships seen as emotionally draining, may seek out relationships in which they are responsible for caring for a partner, repeating what was learned in childhood.


    Fathers substance abuse issues:
    The nature of substance abuse can reduce a child's experience with making friends, so later they may have difficulty with intimate relationships. CW does have issues in these areas

    Addiction tendencies may be familial -both socially modelled and possible genetic trait?

    Impact of growing up with this: overlaps with enmeshment traits, particularly around loss of identity, feelings of responsibility, used to playing the role of the caregiver, may have an excessive need to be in control in order to balance out the chaos in their lives. Or they may constantly need approval, to reassure themselves that they have value. Some become aggressive.


    Attachment
    Mrs Watts described as cold and overbearing. Although its reported he has a close relationship with his dad, he will still be impacted by his relationship with his mother. There are numerous issues that arise from having an in-secure attachment.


    Social modelling
    His family have socially modeled the following:

    Women are domineering.

    Men avoid to cope, rather than confront (eg Dad used substances as a form of escape most likely).

    Unkind behaviour towards others

    No respect for personal boundaries



    Social and emotional development

    Guaranteed CW grew up in an invalidating environment.

    Emotions likely to not be acknowledged let alone expressed, which is a huge issue as this causes someone to lack emotional awareness and stunts development.

    Love and kindness probably 'rewarded' only when doing something right. Therefore, love becomes associated with doing what someone else wants, not inherently given. This will be linked to wanting to be seen as ‘good’.

    Socially he had few friends and lacked a dating history. The question remains why was that? Lack of interest, fear of parental opinion? Etc. This isn’t always an issue, however in this case it is suggests why he was so excited by the prospect of the affair he was having and the thrill he was getting from this.

    Supposedly his sister was 'naughty'. This may be a sign of issues at home (although cannot definitely say this). However, children take up roles in a family. CW has taken up the 'good' boy role, which would be a partial contributor to why he wants to save face and be seen as ‘good’


    Empathy

    Others say he was kind and caring

    Seems empathic towards NK. Why? (Concerned about her being dragged in to the case).

    Important to differentiate between empathy and sympathy. Psychopaths and sociopaths use empathy (not sympathy) to learn about a person and use this in a self-fulfilling manner (eg for their own purpose).

    Psychopath vs sociopath – no criminal history that we are aware, indicates CW is not a psychopath, but rather a sociopath.



    ** There is obviously a lot more that can be added to this””
     
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  4. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    Here. It is long but good.

    Written by a woman on QUORA. The first answer that (ironically) came up when I put “the question that Chris Watts ought to have asked” (from my previous post) into Google. This woman, the author, is married to a malignant narcissist. Bottom line - NK might have not been the biggest love of a malignant narcissist, CW. She merely was the new “Supply” (see below). She surely would not have been the last one. She is very lucky to be alive.


    “First stage…Love Bomb this usually starts with an infraction the Narc either senses or the result of something that happened to make Him/her feel insecure. I am perfect again. I notice him asking for more opinions, saying nice things about me, and doing extra things for me. It might even include some 1/2 a$$ed apology. Not a full apology because a NPD IS perfect…This cycle runs 5–7 days. I find this stage lasts longer if a “new” Supply has rejected him.

    In this cycle I try and compliment him when I see him doing good. I try and build him up. ( of course, I realize that he is an empty hole that can’t be filled.) During this stage I do pick up many tidbits of information that comes at me sideways. For instance, out of the Blue, MY NPD husband said, “Men are All dogs , they will have sex with anyone.” Start listening closer and see what You will find out that You didn’t know.

    Second Stage Devaluing Sage…This is the stage where I am a piece of ****, My family is a piece of ****, I can do no right. I am gaslighted, triangulated and The devaluation slips in slowly until I am getting a full blown case. This cycle also lasts about a week. Since NPD’s mirror what they see and don’t like about themselves this is the stage to actually listen to what the NPD is saying. You then find out what they are thinking about themselves. During this stage I will sprinkle some corrections to his lies. Notice I said “sprinkle”… I never start a full blown fight. that just gets me all upset and achieves nothing. I never fight because anytime an argument can and sometimes will turn into a rage.

    New Content ( added AU 201…I also find that this is probably a time when My NPD is trying to hook in a new Supply. He is devaluing me so he does “NOT feel guilty” for what he is doing or intends on doing. It gives him many excuses to do what he knows is wrong. When I hear the tirades they seem like lists and more times than not He is actually mirroring HIs faults. I can listen to this and realize what he really “knows” his faults are. Since His value is determined by a New “better”Supply, he feels real good about himself.

    Third stage Discard stage. This is the stage where My NPD husband starts to rage, He starts feeling entitled, He starts to brainwash me, spreading bad rumors around about me etc. He has discarded me mentally but he has NOT discarded me physically. I especially see this stage when NPD has a new “playmate” and is hiding that. I think he uses the discard stage to feel guilt free to continue with his playmate. This stage can last for quite a while. Sometimes during this stage I will agree with him on his assessment of me. “Yes, I am a piece of crap, You should leave me” Since I babysit for My daughter and live at her house part time that is when I usually leave. when I get back NPD realizes he crossed a line and is back to stage #1.

    If You can learn to identify these stages as they are coming, You will know that You have some peace in the first stage and some of the second stage. If Your husband is a cheater, then You will notice how his moods change depending on his love interests. When he has been discarded himself by his new love interest then he falls back into stage one or two. The cycle times will change with each individual.”
     
  5. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Please continue the discussion here. Stay on topic and don't get lost in the weeds, please. And be prepared to back up whatever point you are arguing. Do not alert because someone is disagreeing with you. That's not bullying unless the poster is calling you names or threatening you.
     
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  6. kaykay543

    kaykay543 Well-Known Member

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    I may have missed it; but I haven't seen anyone talk about what SW said about CW mom. She says several times in texts that his mom ignored him all through his childhood and did not show him love. (paraphrasing) I was a bit surprised by that. She also said his sister was the golden child; not CW
     
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  7. Mellowmelly

    Mellowmelly Well-Known Member

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    Was it ascertained wether that Trent bolt man was a fraud ? I’m sorry but reading the documents about him made me pmsl :eek: lol. It sounded so far fetched !
     
  8. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  9. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    Thank you for the new thread and I hope you are feeling better, liltexans....make sure you get some rest.
     
  10. ReckoningDay

    ReckoningDay Well-Known Member

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    Still watching for the next doc dump! I suspect a lot of questions will be answered. But then again,.we may just have new questions!
     
  11. BingoBongo

    BingoBongo Inquiring minds want to know.

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    Snipped by me for brevity.

    The net has a multitude of good resources on NPD (Narcissist Personality Disorder) and relationships; familial and romantic.

    There are "warning signs" to watch for, as listed in the referenced Quora comments. And, if you look at the personalities and love map of some recent and notorious killers (Drew Peterson, Scott Peterson, Chris Watts...) you'll see commonalities; love bombing, devaluing and discard. In addition, their belief that they can do no wrong, they are above laws/morals/values, they are to be believed even when their lies make no sense.

    "Narcissist" has become the relationship label du jour and is often overused, and without real understanding of the affliction. That being said, I think our current society encourages the development of harmful narcissists, partly due to upbringing (or lack of) and partly due to social media.

    The diagnosis of NPD (and, I am NOT a professional, just an interested party due to my immediate family, and my history of relationships) is a serious one that has to be left to the pros familiar with it.

    BUT, having seen too many women, men, children, co-workers, churches, etc. suffer at the whim of the narc, I deeply believe that we MUST teach the warning signs, and help young people love themselves enough that they don't overlook, and/or, put up with abuse from these types.

    Bottom line is, narcissists love co-dependents. Don't be co-dependent. Knowledge is key.
     
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  12. Mellowmelly

    Mellowmelly Well-Known Member

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  13. rogue ant

    rogue ant Well-Known Member

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    Has there been anything confirmed regarding the choice of the name Nico Lee ?

    There are some who say it's related to Nichol Lee and others say it's Shanann's friend, NUA.

    At this point I'm thinking we'll just never know but does anyone remember something in MSM about the name?
     
  14. Tortoise

    Tortoise Well-Known Member

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    Just a reminder for everyone that I'm putting together a detailed timeline from the discovery docs, so that no one else duplicates. As you can imagine it's taking a while, because of the number of pages to go through and writing the corresponding notes.
     
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  15. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I think it's just going to be video and audio and photos of what has been described as transcribed in the first discovery dump.
     
  16. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Wow! Thank you so much.
     
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  17. ReckoningDay

    ReckoningDay Well-Known Member

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    Much appreciated!
     
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  18. Tortoise

    Tortoise Well-Known Member

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    Could have been a lie. Trying to get sympathy and attention from Shanann. I don't know if we're going to be able to believe anything that came from his mouth, at any time.
     
  19. ReckoningDay

    ReckoningDay Well-Known Member

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    Do you think it will clarify anything? Or no?
     
  20. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Do we have much left to be clarified?

    I don't think there will be much new information. Just visual and audio of what was described.

    What crucial stuff are we missing?
     
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