GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #62

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Please continue the discussion here. NK has turned out not to be a victim, but you still cannot call her names or wish violence against her. Just refer to her as NK or Nichol. Name calling and wishing violence upon anyone violate TOS no matter who is being discussed. And do not sleuth her family.
     
  3. Mitch11

    Mitch11 Well-Known Member

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    I have just been putting together this list of 'potential' difficulties that CW 'may' have faced in childhood. This information is gleened from the information we have discussed so far. Please feel free to correct any information that maybe incorrect or add your own opinion/findings etc. Obviously we do not know these things definitively happened to CW, so they are suggestions of his potential upbringing (rather than fact).


    Family enmeshment:

    Signs we know of:
    Mother over-involvement in CW life and relationship with SW.

    Mother disrespects and undermines others beliefs/parenting techniques and boundaries (eg nut incident, comments about SW as a mother)

    Power games with them both (e.g. wedding planning, not attending wedding or children's parties, nut incident),

    Their identity as a family may be built upon their children’s success. Eg their talk on his past achievements (eg sports, nascar).

    Threatened when CW married and moved across the country (eg CW responsible for dads increase in drinking, their comments about SW)

    CW may have taken on a caretaker role towards RW’s drinking

    Family dynamics look like they were built on power and submission, rather than equality and respect.


    Effects of enmeshment on an adult: A failure to adequately develop an individual sense of identity and self-esteem, A difficulty regulating one’s own emotions, feeling controlled by others causing them to emotionally withdraw, negatively affect on relationships, difficulty developing appropriate and balanced friendships and difficulties with trust outside immediate family, fear of intimacy as relationships seen as emotionally draining, may seek out relationships in which they are responsible for caring for a partner, repeating what was learned in childhood.


    Fathers substance abuse issues:
    The nature of substance abuse can reduce a child's experience with making friends, so later they may have difficulty with intimate relationships. CW does have issues in these areas

    Addiction tendencies may be familial -both socially modelled and possible genetic trait?

    Impact of growing up with this: overlaps with enmeshment traits, particularly around loss of identity, feelings of responsibility, used to playing the role of the caregiver, may have an excessive need to be in control in order to balance out the chaos in their lives. Or they may constantly need approval, to reassure themselves that they have value. Some become aggressive.


    Attachment
    Mrs Watts described as cold and overbearing. Although its reported he has a close relationship with his dad, he will still be impacted by his relationship with his mother. There are numerous issues that arise from having an in-secure attachment.


    Social modelling
    His family have socially modeled the following:

    Women are domineering.

    Men avoid to cope, rather than confront (eg Dad used substances as a form of escape most likely).

    Unkind behaviour towards others

    No respect for personal boundaries



    Social and emotional development

    Guaranteed CW grew up in an invalidating environment.

    Emotions likely to not be acknowledged let alone expressed, which is a huge issue as this causes someone to lack emotional awareness and stunts development.

    Love and kindness probably 'rewarded' only when doing something right. Therefore, love becomes associated with doing what someone else wants, not inherently given. This will be linked to wanting to be seen as ‘good’.

    Socially he had few friends and lacked a dating history. The question remains why was that? Lack of interest, fear of parental opinion? Etc. This isn’t always an issue, however in this case it is suggests why he was so excited by the prospect of the affair he was having and the thrill he was getting from this.

    Supposedly his sister was 'naughty'. This may be a sign of issues at home (although cannot definitely say this). However, children take up roles in a family. CW has taken up the 'good' boy role, which would be a partial contributor to why he wants to save face and be seen as ‘good’


    Empathy

    Others say he was kind and caring

    Seems empathic towards NK. Why? (Concerned about her being dragged in to the case).

    Important to differentiate between empathy and sympathy. Psychopaths and sociopaths use empathy (not sympathy) to learn about a person and use this in a self-fulfilling manner (eg for their own purpose).

    Psychopath vs sociopath – no criminal history that we are aware, indicates CW is not a psychopath, but rather a sociopath.



    ** There is obviously a lot more that can be added to this””
     
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  4. liltexans

    liltexans Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  5. rogue ant

    rogue ant Well-Known Member

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  6. Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats

    Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats Well-Known Member

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    Did Chris and Ronnie discuss what happened on the ride from the airport?
    Discovery pg 605 (pg 538)
    Chris asked to speak with his dad, agents leave the room. Chris tells his story to his dad, agents come back in and discuss then leave again, Ronnie stays with Chris. At this point Chris asks his dad “Did you tell mom yet”. Ronnie answers no.
    Ronnie has not left the room, when did he have a chance to tell Cindy if he didn’t know before he entered the room. I also think it is odd that when Chris said smothered twice Ronnie said “choke or smothered”, why would he question what Chris was saying, was Chris going off script? Maybe I am looking at it with bias but I don’t know why he wouldn’t just accept Chris saying they were smothered. Chris was very close to his father, it is hard to believe he would not confide and seek his advice.

    I’ve commented before about the agents technique, how masterful they were. Watching how child like Chris is is both sad and disturbing. The agents knew to approach him as if speaking to a child, soft spoken voices, rubbing his back, constant reassurances.
     
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  7. zea mays

    zea mays Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a verified anything here, but I worked as an RN in an ENT clinic with a MD who specialized in voice for several years. The speech therapist that I worked with and I had many conversations about vocal fry LONG before it became popular to point it out in pop culture. It can be very annoying. I agree that we don't need to police people's voices, but when it is something that is affected, rather than caused by a condition of the vocal cords people notice it (eta: professionally - I'm not talking about pop culture here).

    I suggest reading this article written by a speech pathology professional organization which writes about the condition/affected speech with a less biased viewpoint.
    Totally Fried
     
  8. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Thread will open later this morning
     
  9. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Please forgive me. Thread is now open and I will now go punish myself for opening so late by listening to the new Yoko Ono album all the way through.
     
  10. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Things I noticed about CW from the bits and pieces of video I've seen-

    Someone mentioned how he hot-footed it to the house to meet NUA and the police. Oh my how he did so. He RAN up and then into the house trying to get in before them.

    But the police were right on top of him. They already knew.

    In the interviews, he's a right little soldier. So eager to be a good boy and make the investigator's proud of him and pleased.

    Ugh. He's gross. His desire to be seen as a good boy is so intense. I think it's such a driving force. Make them disappear because divorce would make me look bad.

    That strong obsession with pleasing people combined with an ability to manipulate and not having a strong identity, seems like a dangerous combination.

    On the previous thread someone mentioned how CW's parents criticized SW for keeping Bella's hair short. I watched most of her videos. SW did not keep Bella's hair short. It was clear to me that Shanann felt bad for Bella that her hair didn't grow fast.

    Those people will stop at nothing to make Shanann look bad.

    Watching the sentencing hearing their statments were subtle but important. His mother said they have to question EVERYTHING due to the circumstances. She emphasized that word. She followed it quickly with we love you and forgive you for what you did.

    I am certain she was signalling to him that she still believes his second story - that Shanann did it- believes he is pleading guilty for another reason and forgives him for having to kill Shanann.

    I don't think she has changed one bit. At least not at that point.
     
  11. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I think he was trying to explain away any evidence. Of her on her mattress or sheets. So she had to be back on her bed.

    CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #61

    She was probably mad to see SW had so much stuff about her married life and pregnancy on FB so demanded he get off it. Remember all that talk about how SW kept putting stuff on there about how great their marriage was although it wasn't? That's probably what CW made up to explain it away to NK. We know his family used that excuse to explain why he suddenly deleted his FB.

    CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #61

    They believe everything they precious son tells them. At one point he told his girlfriend that Nico wasn't his. He probably told them the same thing.

    It helps explain why he's not a bad guy for leaving her. Because for awhile he may have been trying to figure out how to do that.

    They don't care about Nico because they don't think he's theirs.

    CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #61

    Yes he confessed to killing the girls. He pled guilty to the first degree murder with premeditation and deliberation of Celeste and Bella. He was asked about each child and asked about his guilt as to each one, separately and he pled guilty to each.

    It's not on video but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. He said "Guilty" when asked how he pled to each. Separately.

    That's a confession. That's a fact.

    Just because a confession doesn't have the detail people crave doesn't mean it's not a confession.

    The DA referred to him giving a statement as to what he did and why.

    Here is the sentencing video.

    I don't see Rourke turning around to him at any time or asking him to "confess". Or to give an "admission." I didn't hear those words or see him turn to the defendant at all.

    He already confessed and he already admitted to killing all three and Nico. That's what a plea is:

    ""How" and "why" are the questions that will always haunt people examining this case, said Rourke, and that's why he called upon Christopher Watts to speak in court today."
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.coloradoan.com/amp/2054620002
     
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  12. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    So it seems Watt's completely owned himself in the Polygraph pre-interview



    See from around 53mins

    Watt's is mansplaining in great detail his security system - notice the pride and confidence as he speaks about it.

    They have a sensor in the ground floor that detects movement. This can be set to a passive mode where it does not give an alarm - but it still logs the movement. So it seems when Watt's was home he had it in this mode.

    So it picks up Watt's himself after 4am "getting ready to go to work" (he leaves at 5.30am). It also picked up SW coming home on Sunday nite.

    So the detective asks him if it then picks up SW and the kids later on Monday after he leaves.

    Whoops!

    So there was no movement in the house after he left - yet supposedly his wife and kids were there.

    He realises this mistake and starts talking about alerts from open garage door and open cellar door.

    The man is such a clown!
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  13. mrjitty

    mrjitty Well-Known Member

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    Yep.

    He lies about everything.
     
  14. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    This idiot does not think things through, at all. It blows my mind how little foresight this man has.

    He tells LE that he was at the Rockies game and gives them the names of the coworkers, that DID NOT attend the game with him. Did he think the cops weren't going to talk to those guys? I don't get it.
     
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  15. SaguaroSpirit

    SaguaroSpirit Happy times in Cactus Land

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    He just keeps getting in his own way...
     
  16. Jennifer17

    Jennifer17 Former Member

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    I think that he did think that everyone would just believe anything he said, because he is such a good guy.
     
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  17. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain’t the Ones Beneath the Bed

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    Yup. “People like me and have always believed me. They will believe me now.”
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  18. Mamamiamaria

    Mamamiamaria Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, he was used to having things his own way. For some strange reason it appears as though he thought nobody would question his version of events - it was the way it was because that is what he wanted. It didn't seem to occur to him questions would be asked.
     
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  19. MollyDDD

    MollyDDD Well-Known Member

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    I just saw the photos of Shanann’s shirt, bra and undies.
    I had imagined she was strangled while in bed sleeping, due to the autopsy report but I don’t think most women wear their bra to bed. Perhaps he just pushed her to the floor.
     
  20. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain’t the Ones Beneath the Bed

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    Haa! We had a long discussion about that in a previous thread.

    Some women do apparently.
     
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