GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #65

[Tortoise]

So I wonder how they got the records of her actions later? Were they still monitoring her? I asked before but since I'm having problems with the site I may have missed the answer. Was the year a typo or the month?

It hasn't been confirmed.

 

[NanZDrew]

Perhaps he planned to move these items (cover up) when he returned from work.
He didn't anticipate NUA would call in the Coppers.
Placing the kiddies into those tanks: it was stated these tanks were soon, no longer to be used.
Maybe CW thought, the bodies would decompose over time.
He perhaps planned to move SW's body later.
But LE got to him immediately, foiling further 'cover up'.Of

Perhaps he planned to move these items (cover up) when he returned from work.
He didn't anticipate NUA would call in the Coppers.
Placing the kiddies into those tanks: it was stated these tanks were soon, no longer to be used.
Maybe CW thought, the bodies would decompose over time.
He perhaps planned to move SW's body later.
But LE got to him immediately, foiling further 'cover up'.
MOO.

And if he had taken SW's phone with him, that would have led to the bodies. As it was, the GPS leading to the sites would not have been a problem since he was supposed to have been there.

 

[esayer]

oops wrong reply

 

[MsBetsy]

Are there specifics that lead to that besides the shirt color? Sorry, I don't mean rehash it all for me but just main points that lead to that?

I really thought it was him. And if it isn't that shows some disappointming credibility to 20/20 on what was otherwise a touching and well done episode. jmo.

In the article it said he stopped for a burrito after the murder which I believe is not accurate. We know his actions from the evidence in the Docs.

 

[NuttMegg]

delete

 

[Jennifer17]

If it was planned like some have said he would have done it without waking the kids, then I believe he would not have killed them. He even told NK about the kids. I think they fought and he was enraged by whatever she said and went behind her and strangled her while the kids watched, the fighting woke them up thus he killed them so they wouldn't talk which is stupid. I mean like he'll never be found out.

That is not what the LE investigation found.

 

[Tortoise]

If it was planned like some have said he would have done it without waking the kids, then I believe he would not have killed them. He even told NK about the kids. I think they fought and he was enraged by whatever she said and went behind her and strangled her while the kids watched, the fighting woke them up thus he killed them so they wouldn't talk which is stupid. I mean like he'll never be found out.

Have you read the plea deal he signed?

 

[esayer]

First I thought my apple was causing issues. I gave up last night , the site kept dropping me .
The publicity on this case, and a burst of viewers, causing web overload.
Still have some issues today.

It would be nice if admins would say something about it! Going insane over here.

 

[Mellowmelly]

If it was planned like some have said he would have done it without waking the kids, then I believe he would not have killed them. He even told NK about the kids. I think they fought and he was enraged by whatever she said and went behind her and strangled her while the kids watched, the fighting woke them up thus he killed them so they wouldn't talk which is stupid. I mean like he'll never be found out.

I don’t think he had any reason or right to feel enraged with SW though, he was the one having the affair and I know he seems to be thick but he can’t be that thick to not understand her pain over his stonewalling of her. He should have felt guilt if anything and maybe he did, maybe it made him feel really about himself and that’s why he had to do what he did. I believe it was planned well in advance.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Personally I think it's more complex than that, but it's only my opinion. When a child (in adulthood or not) is enmeshed with a parent one way to describe it is that there is nothing separating them - it feels physical, as if the child is an extension of the parent's body. Inside the same skin. If the parent is hurt the child feels hurt. I speak from my own experience, and it's not something I was even aware of until I had therapy, because it started so young. It just feels like a need to protect the parent from harm, maybe the other parent (B) who harms them, the parent (A) isn't capable, and the consequences of not doing so are going to cause the death of the parent. Very dramatic and irrational but it is viewed from a child's perspective. Strangely and maybe even perversely in this case it is a rescuing dynamic. I do think that CW was enmeshed with his dad and I do think Shanann's fall out with the Watts and RW's reaction by blocking them all had a very big effect on him. I think he may have really hated Shanann for the perceived injury to his father.

This collided with his finding of a new support person in NK. Without the nut incident I think CW would have manipulated Shanann eventually into leaving him, and he would have lied to everyone that he met NK after Shanann left him. So I think it wouldn't necessarily have ended up in murder.

The other dynamic to this is I think he really hated his mother and was able to project that hatred onto Shanann. I think he compartmentalized the children as objects that were part of Shanann. Possibly.

It's still a work in progress for me. I also haven't factored in the making of the sociopath yet because that is the unknown quantity for me. Top of my wishlist for Christmas is a book called Talking with Psychopaths and Savages!

I agree with your thinking Tortoise, as with your other post about CW being enmeshed with his Dad, this unspoken alliance against Mama Watts since he was a little boy and then, transferred to Shanann. jmo

 

[Tortoise]

And if he had taken SW's phone with him, that would have led to the bodies. As it was, the GPS leading to the sites would not have been a problem since he was supposed to have been there.

I believe if it was switched off there would have been no cell tower recognition. I think he left it at home to read her messages and find out what she had told her friends. Also to send himself texts saying don't look for us, blah blah blah, the usual tricks that never work.

 

[Jennifer17]

I believe if it was switched off there would have been no cell tower recognition. I think he left it at home to read her messages and find out what she had told her friends. Also to send himself texts saying don't look for us, blah blah blah, the usual tricks that never work.

A phone still pings if it is switched off.

 

[Tortoise]

A phone still pings if it is switched off.

Ah ok, thanks. I thought it was MassGuy who said it wouldn't, maybe I'm mistaken about that. I don't use a cellphone, still living in the dark ages and I like it like that.

 

[MsBetsy]

If it was planned like some have said he would have done it without waking the kids, then I believe he would not have killed them. He even told NK about the kids. I think they fought and he was enraged by whatever she said and went behind her and strangled her while the kids watched, the fighting woke them up thus he killed them so they wouldn't talk which is stupid. I mean like he'll never be found out.

Well, we already know that is not what happened. It was premeditated and deliberate. He planned to kill them long before Shanann arrived home so it's not possible that he became enraged at what she said.

 

[Jennifer17]

Ah ok, thanks. I thought it was MassGuy who said it wouldn't, maybe I'm mistaken about that. I don't use a cellphone, still living in the dark ages and I like it like that.

A case was solved in Australia with pings from a switched off phone. I guess if you took the SIM out it may not.

 

[Johnny1181]

A phone still pings if it is switched off.

Interesting! New knowledge for me. Thanks!

Was a thread back but...shout out right back to you btw... #ShineLikeShannan

 

[Thepoet]

Well, we already know that is not what happened. It was premeditated and deliberate. He planned to kill them long before Shanann arrived home so it's not possible that he became enraged at what she said.

DA Rourke said there was no rage. (at the sentencing hearing). He said that Shanann was strangled slowly and with determination. IMO; so much worse.

 

[mtnlites]

If it was planned like some have said he would have done it without waking the kids, then I believe he would not have killed them. He even told NK about the kids. I think they fought and he was enraged by whatever she said and went behind her and strangled her while the kids watched, the fighting woke them up thus he killed them so they wouldn't talk which is stupid. I mean like he'll never be found out.

Have you read the actual plea deal, by chance? He pleaded guilty to first degree murder, which negates "rage" and is pre-mediated. Had he simply snapped, that would fall under 2nd dgree. Rourke has said there were no signs of rage.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes, a psychologist analyzing this case might say that by killing Shanann he was essentially killing his mother.
And I just noticed that the quote didn't appear although I tried 3 times, but it's in response to the post about Watts transferring his hatred towards his mother to Shanann. Wouldn't his mom be appalled at that concept!

 

[TTF14]

I don’t think he had any reason or right to feel enraged with SW though, he was the one having the affair and I know he seems to be thick but he can’t be that thick to not understand her pain over his stonewalling of her. He should have felt guilt if anything and maybe he did, maybe it made him feel really ****** about himself and that’s why he had to do what he did. I believe it was planned well in advance.

BBM.

You'd THINK. However, I've seen personally and heard time and time again from others (my other online home is a relationship support board) that the cheating spouse is often SO angry at the betrayed spouse. Why? Maybe because they've been exposed for being a person. They are angry at the betrayed spouse because once the affair is exposed it is known how awful they are, so the anger gets misplaced. Just my layman's theory. Happened to me, also.