GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #66

[Gardener1850]

Wow, good catch. I had not noticed that before:
View attachment 159029

Here's the section at the end where it says he played phone tag (pg 1933/Discovery Doc 2128): View attachment 159032

Somewhere we have NK's phone records too. I thought there were more calls between her and CW from midnight to 2 AM. I'll see if I can find that.

ETA:
Discovery Pg 1120 (top five calls-- the number ending in 1702 was his personal cell):

GUILTY - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #58

So putting the above all together:

Aug 14, 2018
12:08 AM CW calls NK and holds a 31 minute conversation
1:12 AM NK calls CW back and holds 3 minute conversation
1:51 AM CW calls NK and holds an 8 minute conversation
2:00 AM Detective tries to call CW and only hears dead air
2:05 AM CW calls the detective back on his work phone and explains there was something wrong with his personal phone
2:06 AM CW calls NK on his personal number and holds a 1 minute conversation
2:07 AM NK calls CW back and they hold an 11 minute conversation

-------
How long was the 2:05 AM conversation with the detective on CW's work phone? If it overlapped with NK on the personal phone, I wonder if CW was letting NK listen to what the detective was saying? Hmmmm.....

 

[x_files]

It’s definitly helped me to be able to recognise a narcissist better than I did before this case. I had my suspicions before but it’s confirmed for me that my so called partner, now ex partner and the father of my child is a narcissist but not a covert one. His relationship with me and his bond with his child is so superficial that he could go months without seeing me or her, letting me beg him to come and live with us and help me to bring his child up. Always taking his friends and families side over that of me and his child. And the most creepiest part is that his birthday is within days of CW. This case has helped me to finally cut ties with him. I know I shouldn’t bring personal experiences to this site but the similarities between CW and my now ex narc partner are scary.

yikes!!! red flags. I'm glad you're safely away from him.

 

[compass]

Exactly, they wanted to focus on just his wife and not shame him for what he did to the children at first to make him start talking.

It really is amazing now looking how they did pull out from him a confession.

I've never followed a case and seen such so quickly to understand the psychological way that they did it. I have watched that interview four times and learned so much each time.

And yes, I agree, with somebody else who mentioned it, about the sweater with the stripes. It was psychological (and someone said it was ugly, even though it was just like a sweater that I have that I think is beautiful LOL)

They're soft non-judgemental voices throughout the things, the non-confrontational that they had on what they knew he was lying about, was amazing. They never challenged him on his lies Until the End. Amazing!

I missed that, what is about the sweater with stripes? Can someone explain? Sorry, I must confess I have been jumping around some trying to read and catch up and I guess I missed that. Thanks

 

[Irmese]

I just wonder what NK could have possibly done to assist the police in finding the missing wife and children as she claims as one of the reasons she contacted the police. I think she thought it was a nice thing to say but really didn't mean it

I think when NK talked to her dad, he told her to go to the cops. I'm really curious about when their relationship started. I think it was earlier than they are saying. NK may not have told him to kill his family, but I think she was pushing CW to cut off ties with Shanann and the girls. Was there ever any mention of life insurance?

 

[x_files]

I'm sure you sleuthers have already discussed this, but...
Remember the text NK sent to her friend saying something about how CW already had a family, and that she wanted to have that with someone who hadn't already done that? (paraphrasing badly) Maybe she said the same to CW. He would do anything for her after all.

Remember the love letter card of "firsts" to NK. This was a sensitive topic to NK.

 

[Tortoise]

So putting the above all together:

Aug 14, 2018
12:08 AM CW calls NK and holds a 31 minute conversation
1:12 AM NK calls CW back and holds 3 minute conversation
1:51 AM CW calls NK and holds an 8 minute conversation
2:00 AM Detective tries to call CW and only hears dead air
2:05 AM CW calls the detective back on his work phone and explains there was something wrong with his personal phone
2:06 AM CW calls NK on his personal number and holds a 1 minute conversation
2:07 AM NK calls CW back and they hold an 11 minute conversation

-------
How long was the 2:05 AM conversation with the detective on CW's work phone? If it overlapped with NK on the personal phone, I wonder if CW was letting NK listen to what the detective was saying? Hmmmm.....

I know it's only a minute out but it's an important minute ( ) because it overlaps with the ending of his call to NK. The FPD video says the call to CW was made at 1:59am. I guess the end time of the FPD call can be worked out from the length of that video posted which was 7 minutes altogether.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

So putting the above all together:

Aug 14, 2018
12:08 AM CW calls NK and holds a 31 minute conversation
1:12 AM NK calls CW back and holds 3 minute conversation
1:51 AM CW calls NK and holds an 8 minute conversation
2:00 AM Detective tries to call CW and only hears dead air
2:05 AM CW calls the detective back on his work phone and explains there was something wrong with his personal phone
2:06 AM CW calls NK on his personal number and holds a 1 minute conversation
2:07 AM NK calls CW back and they hold an 11 minute conversation

-------
How long was the 2:05 AM conversation with the detective on CW's work phone? If it overlapped with NK on the personal phone, I wonder if CW was letting NK listen to what the detective was saying? Hmmmm.....

Well that’s certainly interesting- good find!!

 

[Gardener1850]

I know it's only a minute out but it's an important minute ( ) because it overlaps with the ending of his call to NK. The FPD video says the call to CW was made at 1:59am. I guess the end time of the FPD call can be worked out from the length of that video posted which was 7 minutes altogether.

Yes, very important IMO.

I believe that’s this call, at 0159 hours on the 14th

This seems to show the call would have overlapped slightly with NK's call on the personal phone or that CW called NK immediately after the call with the detective, spoke for 1 minute and then she called him back for some reason after they hung up. Maybe she had more questions about something he said? I'm really curious to know what was said between NK and CW.

 

[molly1255]

Remember the love letter card of "firsts" to NK.

This was a sensitive topic to NK.

yeah and lol - she was involved with a married man who had a pregnant wife and two little children. Not sure what she expected.

She hadn't even gotten to the really good part yet and that was meeting his parents and sibling, JMO.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I don't know about you guys but whenever @MassGuy or @PommyMommy likes my post, I feel like a celebrity liked my post Everyone here is so smart and I love reading all of your insights. I think part of the reason I can't let this one go is because I don't know what I would do without my WS family every day

That much love for a LIKE?

How much for a REPLY?

Lol. Just kidding.

 

[Gardener1850]

I believe that’s this call, at 0159 hours on the 14th

Now that we know he was talking to NK around the time of this call, I wonder if CW kept trying to do a conference call to the detective with NK on the other line. Maybe he kept hanging up because he couldn't get it right? If you do it wrong one party ends up on mute. Was plan B to call on his work phone and just put the detective on speaker so NK could hear through the personal phone? Or did he accidentally dial NK on his personal phone while on the work phone to the the detective? Or maybe CW was busy squirreling away photos of NK to his secret calculator app of his personal phone while talking to the detective about his "missing" wife and daughters and accidentally dialed NK? I'm not sure if there is an overlap but it sure is cutting it close on the timeline. One thing it shows is CW was so distracted with NK he didn't even bother to act concerned about whether a detective calling him at 2:00 AM had important news. JMO.

 

[MyBelle]

@MyBelle

That's right he did, CW 'temporarily' stood by Shanann over the incident. Is that aligning with dad, no, it's not, Papa Watts was heartbroken.
Mama Watts is going ape **** over it and ringing CW's friend for more allies against Shanann, while papa Watts lives in the war zone of his wife and daughter's own making.
Would Papa Watts be grateful to his best buddy, his son, taking Shanann's side?
Look what happened, CW killed his whole family and I don't think it was a hard decision for CW to make, he's THAT screwed up!
Enmeshment is the word here, @Tortoise wrote a great post about it in the last thread.

I'm not familiar with the term "enmeshment" and didn't see Tortoise's post, unfortunately, but "war zone" fits perfectly. It is painfully obvious CW's upbringing was seriously dysfunctional and emotionally abusive.

CW reminds me of my DD's ex-husband: charming on the exterior and a simmering rage on the interior. In fact, my DD pointed out the haunting similarities over Thanksgiving and we gave thanks she is safe. Her children, however, are not. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I missed that, what is about the sweater with stripes? Can someone explain? Sorry, I must confess I have been jumping around some trying to read and catch up and I guess I missed that. Thanks

It has been suggested that she was wearing black and white stripes for a specific reason since that was commonly used on prisoners many years ago. It still is in some states.
I'm not sure if it was done purposely or not. I'm not sure how that would help to get him to confess. In my opinion it had nothing to do with the interrogation. Why wouldn't she wear orange, the color most commonly worn? It's just a popular design.

 

[freyaflies]

So putting the above all together:

Aug 14, 2018
12:08 AM CW calls NK and holds a 31 minute conversation
1:12 AM NK calls CW back and holds 3 minute conversation
1:51 AM CW calls NK and holds an 8 minute conversation
2:00 AM Detective tries to call CW and only hears dead air
2:05 AM CW calls the detective back on his work phone and explains there was something wrong with his personal phone
2:06 AM CW calls NK on his personal number and holds a 1 minute conversation
2:07 AM NK calls CW back and they hold an 11 minute conversation

-------
How long was the 2:05 AM conversation with the detective on CW's work phone? If it overlapped with NK on the personal phone, I wonder if CW was letting NK listen to what the detective was saying? Hmmmm.....

I timed it, it came out to almost 4 minutes exactly. So CW would have been on the phone with the detective until at least 2:09 AM.
I'm trying to imagine the scenario: CW was talking to NK on his cell phone until 1:59 AM at least. At 2 AM, the detective calls CW's cell phone and CW doesn't answer. At 2:05 AM, CW calls the detective from his work phone and talks until at least 2:09, and during that call, CW calls NK on his cell phone at 2:06 for a minute (one minute into his phone call with the detective). NK listens in for 1 minute, (until 2:07) and then I'm guessing the call dropped because NK calls back immediately at 2:07 and CW answers his cell phone, yet he's still on his work phone with the detective (and does not mention to the detective that he's also been on the phone with NK for most of their call). CW talks with the detective for at least another 2 minutes. Then CW hangs up with the detective and continues his call with NK for another 9 minutes.
Is that right?

 

[MyBelle]

She is still protecting CW. Maybe eventually she won't. but I think she was still on his team after Aug. 13th.

I don't believe she was protecting CW, I think it was more about her own embarrassment.

 

[freyaflies]

Now that we know he was talking to NK around the time of this call, I wonder if CW kept trying to do a conference call to the detective with NK on the other line. Maybe he kept hanging up because he couldn't get it right? If you do it wrong one party ends up on mute. Was plan B to call on his work phone and just put the detective on speaker so NK could hear through the personal phone? Or did he accidentally dial NK on his personal phone while on the work phone to the the detective? Or maybe CW was busy squirreling away photos of NK to his secret calculator app of his personal phone while talking to the detective about his "missing" wife and daughters and accidentally dialed NK? I'm not sure if there is an overlap but it sure is cutting it close on the timeline. One thing it shows is CW was so distracted with NK he didn't even bother to act concerned about whether a detective calling him at 2:00 had important news. JMO.

Yes! that was my first thought too, this is exactly what happens when someone is messing up a conference call attempt. I think you're exactly right about the Plan B

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I think she's just trying to sound affected and make sure they know she's traumatized. She can surely contact a therapist on her own. That was all for effect.

She sure can find an apartment,wedding dresses, macro diets etc.

 

[MsBetsy]

LOL! You're right - that's how he responded to that. A normal person would have been very highly insulted if someone suggested they were two different people.

It was a real tell and Coder definitely knew his customer.

It was crazy to watch him answer that question. He just took the cue from the investigator and repeated the same words, "The Chris you are talking to right now loves his kids and would never hurt them. That's the Chris your talking to. I promise." I really wanted Coder to say something like, "well how about if you consult with the other Chris so we can hear what he has to say?"

 

[Tortoise]

I timed it, it came out to almost 4 minutes exactly. So CW would have been on the phone with the detective until at least 2:09 AM.
I'm trying to imagine the scenario: CW was talking to NK on his cell phone until 1:59 AM at least. At 2 AM, the detective calls CW's cell phone and CW doesn't answer. At 2:05 AM, CW calls the detective from his work phone and talks until at least 2:09, and during that call, CW calls NK on his cell phone at 2:06 for a minute (one minute into his phone call with the detective). NK listens in for 1 minute, (until 2:07) and then I'm guessing the call dropped because NK calls back immediately at 2:07 and CW answers his cell phone, yet he's still on his work phone with the detective (and does not mention to the detective that he's also been on the phone with NK for most of their call). CW talks with the detective for at least another 2 minutes. Then CW hangs up with the detective and continues his call with NK for another 9 minutes.
Is that right?

The video lasts for approx. 7 minutes and starts at 1:59am. So the call must have ended by approx. 2:06am. I don't think CW could have called him at 2:05, I think that must be an error or a vague approximation.

 

[JEM1975]

That much love for a LIKE?

How much for a REPLY?

Lol. Just kidding.

Hahaha.....a reply gets mad love!