GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[BradB]

Having a healthy marriage, relationship is probably one of the hardest things to do in life.

 

[MassGuy]

I found it extremely odd that in his prison interview, CW expressed relief that nothing adverse happened to CeCe during the nut incident, considering that he murdered her not long after that happened.

Ha! There were so many contradictions there, that we could spend days discussing them.

He literally claimed that he killed Shanann, because she was going to take the kids.

Then he killed the kids, that Shanann threatened to take.

Because that makes sense.

 

[Best of What's Around]

I totally understand what you are saying. I also know how hard it can be to have a minority opinion on a forum.

IMO they should have pushed him more and called him out when he was telling obvious lies. I feel we may have gotten a more truthful statement. CW is weak and I think he would have crumbled and been more honest. CW does respect authority figures.

I have watched other FBI interviews where they don’t pussy foot around a murderer. Once he admitted what he did to the girls; I feel they should have been at least a little tougher on him.

We can second guess their efforts, but in the end, they paid off - perhaps imperfectly but it should be seen as an overwhelming success IMO. I am certain they tailor their techniques to the specific profile they have begun to develop for the suspect. In this case, it worked well to treat CW as a friend. In their last interview, they knew he didn't have to say a word to them - he would no longer be frightened of what might happen if he does not talk to them. I believe it was more important than ever for them to appear to empathize with him and throw out scenarios we find distasteful to get his take on them (e.g. SW's FB videos). Keep in mind, they are probably cognisant of the fact that once you have spent a great deal of time with defense counsel and then in prison - your view of "friendly" LE likely sours! It was more important that ever to keep on his good side IMO. In my view, the more CW likes or respects someone, the more he does not want to let them down. He thinks lying is doing so - and even though he lied to his wife, mistress, parents, and others, they zeroed in on his apologies for lying to them before and used it to their advantage here. MOO

 

[nwmouse]

I think she certainly was a trigger, and the timing of all of this was not a coincidence.

He killed his family to be with her, so yes, if she wasn’t in the picture, this crime would not have happened when it happened.

There very well might have been another woman down the road though, and all bets would be off then.

Oh hell yes! If it wasn't NK, I sincerely believe it WOULD have been someone else.

With his new, buff image he was no longer interested in Shanann or his children. He wanted new adventures and experiences.

CW was transforming into what I call Francis Dolarhyde in Red Dragon. He craved a new life for his "improved" (in his mind) Chris Watts.

I think he always had a few screws loose and as he matured his arrested development became more apparent.

He mimics others as he doesn't have a true sense of "self". He's a shell of a human without any substance.

We learned a few truthful insights into the real CW from his interview:

a) He's a liar who believes his own lies.

b) He learned to tell very believable lies since he was a child when he told his school teacher that he spent a vacation in Asia and his lies were believed.

b) He's scared of being alone. When Shanann was away he stayed with NK.

c) When he committed the murders he stayed at the neighbor's house overnight eating pizza and watching sports on TV as he was "afraid" of going back to the ghost house. (This rings true).

d) He was deeply affected by being in solitary during his jailing in CO and felt better after being transferred to WI so he could mingle with other inmates (until he gets hurt).

I think he's going to be in for a rude awakening in his new WI prison. It houses some of the worst offenders who will be only too willing to make a name for themselves or "gain respect" as they call it, in there. He is a reviled monster. Many of the inmates in there are not in for murdering their helpless toddlers. He's a marked man.

moo

 

[ChiCubs2016]

This was the strategy that they came up with, likely with the help of FBI profilers.

Their goal was to get the most out of the interview, and the most out of PF; they felt that was the way to do it.

It doesn’t bother me in the slightest, but I can see how it would bother other people.

It doesn’t mean that the strategy was wrong though, or unnecessary.

You are right. It was just the word “sorry”. I listened to it again and it was not a sincere apology. It just irked me when I first heard it. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[nwmouse]

Having a healthy marriage, relationship is probably one of the hardest things to do in life.

Yikes! I would not agree with that statement.

 

[molly1255]

In a way I see it similar to the crime that Jake Patterson committed. The kidnapping of Jayme Closs, and the murder of her parents, seemed to be very well thought out. It doesn't appear that he really had plans for JC once she was back at his house, however. The initial crime was planned down to the way he shaved his head and removed his license plate. I think it was the initial murder/kidnapping that excited him. Likewise, I think with CW the part that he was focused on was their deaths. His "plan", if he had one, may have been long-sighted. The short-sightedness of it, however, didn't seem to have a lot of thought put into it. ie. He could see himself moving on with his life, experimenting with NK and living the bachelorhood without any pesky kids or ex wife around, yet he didn't have a good plan for where to hide their bodies, what to tell people about their disappearances, etc. In both crimes I think fantasy played a big part, but the mundane details outside of the fantasies didn't figure in.

That's a good thing in the long run. Both of these men's lack of attention to detail is what enabled justice to be served rather quickly.

I agree. I believe we also see this in Scott Peterson. He made his alibi the same place where he put Laci and Conner. His story seemed to make sense to him, and he apparently didn't think anyone would question it, but LE and almost everyone else could see right through it.

JMO, these are people with very serious personality disorders. They completely lack empathy and remorse and there is also a very high degree of narcissism at play, IMO. I think that is what makes them able to do the things they do, and I can't help but wonder if it is also what makes them blind to what LE and others can see?

 

[Best of What's Around]

Ha! There were so many contradictions there, that we could spend days discussing them.

He literally claimed that he killed Shanann, because she was going to take the kids.

Then he killed the kids, that Shanann threatened to take.

Because that makes sense.

Yes, I was surprised this was the takeaway from the interview in media reports, though. Guess it makes a good sound bite. Because my takeaway is that he placed less emphasis on anything SW said that morning and more on just a general anger about being stuck with her in this marriage. His sentiment that he thought it was implanted in his brain from the moment he woke up that morning was closer to the truth. I just think it was implanted because he had known for a week or two now that all his lies and deception in pursuit of a double life were all coming to head and Monday morning was the latest in his mind he could procrastinate putting off getting rid of them all before she announced the baby's gender to everyone Monday. He could not have that. It becomes riskier when NK finds out (thought I believe she knew SW was pregnant and didn't tell him) and friends/family find out he was having the son he long wanted - why would they then get separated and her "disappear" off with the kids? His worlds were colliding. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, I was surprise this was the takeaway from the interview in media reports, though. Because my takeaway is that he placed less emphasis on anything SW said that morning and more on just a general anger about being stuck with her in this marriage. His sentiment that he thought it was implanted in his brain from the moment he woke up that morning was closer to the truth. I just think it was implanted because he had known for a week or two now that all his lies and deception in pursuit of a double life were all coming to head and Monday morning was the latest in his mind he could procrastinate putting off getting rid of them all before she announced the baby's gender to everyone Monday. He could not have that. It becomes riskier than NK finds out (I believe she knew SW was pregnant and didn't tell him) and friends/family find out he was having the son he long wanted - why would they then get separated and her "disappear" off with the kids? His worlds were colliding. MOO

I absolutely agree.

If you listened closely, he was basically saying that this was premeditated, he just didn’t use the words.

He didn’t just lose his temper because of something Shanann said, although this is likely the perception that many people now have (people less familiar with the case).

Him mentioning the argument with Shanann, doesn’t hold the weight of the rest of it.

That wasn’t all that important, even if it did happen (I’m not at all sure it did).

 

[nwmouse]

I agree. I believe we also see this in Scott Peterson. He made his alibi the same place where he put Laci and Conner. His story seemed to make sense to him, and he apparently didn't think anyone would question it, but LE and almost everyone else could see right through it.

JMO, these are people with very serious personality disorders. They completely lack empathy and remorse and there is also a very high degree of narcissism at play, IMO. I think that is what makes them able to do the things they do, and I can't help but wonder if it is also what makes them blind to what LE and others can see?

I think their own narcissism blinds them to what others see in them because they see themselves in a totally different light.
Delusions of grandeur. They think they're smarter and above everyone else. They're "special".
(Often because their mommies told them they were special and they actually STILL believe it.) IMHO.

SP was found with all the equipment he needed to kill AF when LE apprehended him.
He turned against anyone who disagreed with him, just like a snake.

Patrick Frazee was vile and abusive when the nurses placed baby K in an incubator because she was premature. He turned viciously when his rules and demands weren't followed. (Although he is not the norm because he doesn't LOVE talking about himself like other narcs, he has his own special category of evil, imho)

Maybe Chris Watts would have turned against NK once she disagreed with him or he found another woman who boosted his ego more, and NK would have ended up dead as well.

moo

 

[MemPat]

Would it be as simple as saying if NK wasnt involved, this murder would have been prevented?

No, it would have just been another set of initials at another time.

Infidelity occurs due to a series of bad decisions, not because one particular partner happened along.

 

[MemPat]

I think she certainly was a trigger, and the timing of all of this was not a coincidence.

He killed his family to be with her, so yes, if she wasn’t in the picture, this crime would not have happened when it happened.

There very well might have been another woman down the road though, and all bets would be off then.

I believe it would have happened down the road.

His girls would have been too large for the holes but he would have found a way.

 

[MemPat]

Ha! There were so many contradictions there, that we could spend days discussing them.

He literally claimed that he killed Shanann, because she was going to take the kids.

Then he killed the kids, that Shanann threatened to take.

Because that makes sense.

"Sense is so yesterday," said Chris.

 

[molly1255]

Seems to me some of these premeditated murderers, think about killing for a while, but then end up doing a sporadic-type murder when something in their brains sets them off. It seems like that to me because CW didn't seem to know exactly what he was going to do with Shanann's body the day he did it.

I agree, and in the early days of the case, I was extremely perplexed about why he put Shanann's body in a shallow grave, particularly when he put Celeste and Bella in the oil storage tanks, which to me strongly suggests premeditation, IMO. Who thinks of that on the fly? In his wildest dreams, even if everything had gone his way, did he really think that Shanann's shallow grave would not be discovered?

JMO, I think he's a psychopath and their minds are literally impossible to understand. If investigators caught him on a day when he felt like telling the truth about why he put Shanann's body in a shallow grave, he'd probably throw his hands around and say "I didn't know what else to do!!".

 

[DaisyKenny]

I absolutely agree.

If you listened closely, he was basically saying that this was premeditated, he just didn’t use the words.

He didn’t just lose his temper because of something Shanann said, although this is likely the perception that many people now have (people less familiar with the case).

Him mentioning the argument with Shanann, doesn’t hold the weight of the rest of it.

That wasn’t all that important, even if it did happen (I’m not at all sure it did).

IIRC, CW only mentioned two times that he really got angry.
The first was when SW demanded that he stop communicating with his ex gf.
The second was when he blew up at his mom and sister because they tried to stop him from marrying SW.
In both instances there was someone getting in the way of what he desired at the time.

 

[nwmouse]

I agree, and in the early days of the case, I was extremely perplexed about why he put Shanann's body in a shallow grave, particularly when he put Celeste and Bella in the oil storage tanks, which to me strongly suggests premeditation, IMO. Who thinks of that on the fly? In his wildest dreams, even if everything had gone his way, did he really think that Shanann's shallow grave would not be discovered?

JMO, I think he's a psychopath and their minds are literally impossible to understand. If investigators caught him on a day when he felt like telling the truth about why he put Shanann's body in a shallow grave, he'd probably throw his hands around and say "I didn't know what else to do!!".

I agree with you about his idiotic FAKE reason for placing SW in a shallow grave -- to fool LE that it was a spontaneous crime of passion.

BUT I would also like to add that I think he put Shanann's body in a shallow grave because he wanted to disrespect her in death as he was unable to in life due to the fact she was a strong character who stood up to him.

CW wanted to demean and desecrate her in death because he could not even be a quarter of the person she was in life and he resented her for that.

He didn't care if her body was eaten by wild animals because that was his evil, cowardly way of demeaning her and invalidating her. Just as he defecated close to her grave site and shoved her two precious girls into oil tanks. He KNEW better than anyone what crude oil would do to their little bodies. All pre-meditated.

Burial rites are a deep instinct in humans that go back to our ancient, primitive days. Even elephants bury their dead with respect. Ravens mourn their partners by staying with the body. Its a sign of mourning and grief. Its sacred. In Asia, the dead are buried with rice and fake money to send them to the after-life. This was the first thought that struck me when we learned of what he did. How could he desecrate the memories of his wife and his own CHILDREN (part of him) by disposing of them like garbage?

I really hope he gets his just desserts in prison instead of donning his new mask as "Chris Found Jesus" or studying to be a preacher. I strongly believe in an eye for an eye.

moo

 

[molly1255]

It's true that it was distasteful to say the least, how they got CW to talk, but that seemed the most expedited route to take with this particular killer and TIME was of the essence. Those little bodies were decomping in those oil tanks! Not to mention S and N... They needed him to tell them where to find them. Fast.

Time was indeed of the essence. LE likely strongly suspected they were dead, but they didn't know that for a fact.

 

[Safeguard]

His girls would have been too large for the holes but he would have found a way.[/QUOTE]

Jesus that just broke my heart to think about! "gotta do this quick, so I don't have to exert myself further digging two more graves ( or whatever he decided to do with them!).

 

[Best of What's Around]

I agree, and in the early days of the case, I was extremely perplexed about why he put Shanann's body in a shallow grave, particularly when he put Celeste and Bella in the oil storage tanks, which to me strongly suggests premeditation, IMO. Who thinks of that on the fly? In his wildest dreams, even if everything had gone his way, did he really think that Shanann's shallow grave would not be discovered?

JMO, I think he's a psychopath and their minds are literally impossible to understand. If investigators caught him on a day when he felt like telling the truth about why he put Shanann's body in a shallow grave, he'd probably throw his hands around and say "I didn't know what else to do!!".

Yeah, for someone who was on a "rage" auto pilot - not thinking - and always "didn't know what else to do" - he sure did do a LOT of THINKING things that morning!

-throws out relationship book so it would look like SW decided to leave him
-takes SW's wedding ring off so he can leave it behind as evidence she left him
-backs truck up to garage to block camera view and hides what he puts in truck (his family)
-brings trash bags for this and we think the gas can which he likely was considering using not for himself but for later cover up but discarded the idea due to time or what he thought were better ideas
-texts and tries to call almost every coworker that morning who could possibly show up - from before he even murdered his girls throughout the process - in a casual, care free manner - never coming across as stressed to them. He even "lol" on a text to a coworker before 9 am. He sure spent a lot of time texting calling for someone not in their right mind!
-texts his wife just after to ask where she is taking his kids!
-calls the school and realtor ASAP
-looks up song lyrics for Nikki (or was it for her? such a coincidence that "battery" is another name for one of those oil tanks and the song mentions rage, kill, and family). Huh.
-not a single coworker that morning notice anything about his demeanor amiss - just his clothes.
-takes time to take pics of wildflowers, presumed to be for NK who liked them
-stops on way home to LE to throw away his murder clothes, children's blankets/toys.
-drives by home in his neighborhood on way home to give realtor the thumbs up that it is the same model home so she can get moving on the comps report to get his home on the market asap.
-makes another text/call to SW on the way home.

I'm probably missing some...and this is only what we KNOW he was "thinking" in service of his crimes and future life that morning.

 

[Safeguard]

BUT I would also like to add that I think he put Shanann's body in a shallow grave because he wanted to disrespect her in death as he was unable to in life due to the fact she was a strong character who stood up to him.

A mouse could have stood up to CW. I don't think there was anything to "stand up" too. She was a natural born leader. I don't think she ever questioned that he was there to do her bidding. Her parents even have said they loved him because "he did everything for her". In fact, come to think of it, they don't say anything about his personal attributes, or achievements of his own...Just...that he did whatever she wanted/needed.