Conrad Murray trial -Day seventeen.

[Soulmagent]

I really do not understand at all why Dr Klien did not testify.

Not that they need him Murray is going to be found guilty.

C. Lee. said it was like a virus in that house. I really feel awful for her . She seems very upset by all of this.

 

[outofstatelawyer]

It is my fervent hope that they sent Lauren Lake home. She needs to stick to doing kitchen remodeling shows. She is a know-it-all beyond all know-it-alls. Yuck!

 

[Talina]

I really do not understand at all why Dr Klien did not testify.

Not that they need him Murray is going to be found guilty.

C. Lee. said it was like a virus in that house. I really feel awful for her . She seems very upset by all of this.

Judge Pastor ruled that Dr. Klein could not testify. The defense wanted to call him. From what I understand it is because after a review of his medical records, nothing he had prescribed or used on MJ during his office treatments were found in MJ's system at the time of death. It had been several days since he had even been to Dr. Klein's office.

The defense was wanting to try to bring in what all kinds of treatments that Dr. Klein had performed on MJ, pain meds, etc., and Judge Pastor ruled it was totally irrelevant to the event that occurred on June 25, 2009.

I could be off on some of that or missed some of the rulings. That is just based on memory from what I'd read as it was happening.

IMO

 

[Soulmagent]

Judge Pastor ruled that Dr. Klein could not testify. The defense wanted to call him. From what I understand it is because after a review of his medical records, nothing he had prescribed or used on MJ during his office treatments were found in MJ's system at the time of death. It had been several days since he had even been to Dr. Klein's office.

The defense was wanting to try to bring in what all kinds of treatments that Dr. Klein had performed on MJ, pain meds, etc., and Judge Pastor ruled it was totally irrelevant to the event that occurred on June 25, 2009.

I could be off on some of that or missed some of the rulings. That is just based on memory from what I'd read as it was happening.

IMO

I know about the rulings ,I just dont really believe it is not relavent . I mean if his name had not come up in trial ever maybe ,but once he was mentioned you would think it opened the door for the jury to speculate so they would want him there. JMO.

 

[Talina]

I know about the rulings ,I just dont really believe it is not relavent . I mean if his name had not come up in trial ever maybe ,but once he was mentioned you would think it opened the door for the jury to speculate so they would want him there. JMO.

If it were me on the jury and I'd heard this Dr. Klein's name come up as it has, I'd be expecting the defense to call him eventually. When he is not called, I'd probably then discount he really had anything to do with the death otherwise the defense would have called him. I'd probably not give any credence to it once the defense rest without offering any testimony from this doctor that they themselves kept bringing up.

 

[Soulmagent]

If it were me on the jury and I'd heard this Dr. Klein's name come up as it has, I'd be expecting the defense to call him eventually. When he is not called, I'd probably then discount he really had anything to do with the death otherwise the defense would have called him. I'd probably not give any credence to it once the defense rest without offering any testimony from this doctor that they themselves kept bringing up.

Right. I agree .
The prosecution is who I meant should have called him. He could have ended alot of that tactic.
Conrad is guilty and I think the jury already made up there minds.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

There is no evidence or testimony that states MJ was having daily appointments with Dr. Klein. Where have you seen that to be the case?

Dr. Klein's attorney has even said that when his medical records, which both sides have, come into evidence we'll all see that what the defense has been saying is very far from the truth.

Has it now morphed into everyday?

We can all see in This Is It that MJ had been receiving facial treatments from Klein.

MJ was back to looking more like the MJ of yesterday and didn't have to have plastic surgery to do it. That shows how good Klein is.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Right. I agree .
The prosecution is who I meant should have called him. He could have ended alot of that tactic.
Conrad is guilty and I think the jury already made up there minds.

The prosecutor wouldnt be the one to call him. He has nothing to do with the death of MJ.

The defense wanted to call him but Judge Pastor said there was nothing he could testify about as to what happened on June 25, 2009 when Murray killed MJ on propofol and benzos.

IMO

 

[Talina]

Has it now morphed into everyday?

We can all see in This Is It that MJ had been receiving facial treatments from Klein.

MJ was back to looking more like the MJ of yesterday and didn't have to have plastic surgery to do it. That shows how good Klein is.

IMO

So it seems but I don't know how. :waitasec:

 

[Velouria]

Sunny Hostin on IS right now and I swear...she makes my hair hurt to listen to her.
:banghead:

Mine too, Talina. Especially the way she says "CER-in-lee" instead of "certainly" in every other sentence.

 

[Crosby87]

I don't disagree with you that he was seeing Dr. Klein. What I haven't seen is that he was seeing him on a daily basis. One of his bodyguards is quoted (but not confirmed as far as I know) as having said that at some point MJ was seeing Dr. Klein 3 times a week.

Dr. Kleins lawyer has gone on record on several news shows saying the medical records do not support that claim at all that he was seeing Dr. Klein 3 times a week in the months leading up to his death. Unless his medical records are brought into evidence somehow (and at this point in the trial I don't see how they will be) we'll never know the actual numbers of times, what was done or what medication he was given. Frankly, to me, it is a red herring from the defense team. Nothing was found in the toxicology reports that were any drugs outside of what Dr. Murray was giving to MJ.

Also, I don't think it has ever been alleged that Dr. Klein was giving MJ propofol. I think, IIRC, the allegations of drugs regarding Dr. Klein is Demerol.


IMO

MJ's security personnel had an office at the Ranch where they would record MJ's trips to-and-from the mansion so they know exactly when MJ went to Dr. Klein's office.

I would love to compare Klein's medical records with the security records.

MJ abandoned all the cautions he was given on the dangers of taking propofol and rejected the medical professionals advice. He refused to follow protocol and adhere to their guidelines.

MJ was determined to do things his way and he had NL stay overnight in order to be able to "prove" he needed the drug and win his case.

MJ and CM are both responsible for causing MJ's death.

MJ started taking propofol 6-7 times a week beginning in April 2009 so the high concentration of propofol found in his internal organs could be residual.

Seeing a doctor three times a week means MJ was under Dr. Klein's constant care in June and MJ's staff believed he was given drugs during his visits with Dr. Klein because his speech was slurred. MJs speech was impaired during his conversation on CM's Iphone that was recorded May 5 2009 and one of MJ's assistants said the degree to which his speech was impaired varied.

Therefore it is reasonable to assume Dr. Klein was busy performing medical procedures on MJ to prepare him for his upcoming tour when rehearsals began and he was taking propofol and Rx drugs from Dr. Metzger and Murray.

MJ wasn't cleared by Dr. Klein to go on tour and he has never stated his opinion on this.

I think MJ realized he had violated his contract with AEG in which MJ declared in writing he was fit to tour and he was misleading AEG and those who trusted him.

MJ had to cover production costs until the tour started and if he wasn't ready to perform, he was in big trouble.

I think Dr. Klein's treatment of MJ in mid June would make MJ unfit to perform because he needed time to rest and heal first and regain his strength.

Dr. Allan Metzger testified that Michael Jackson asked him for IV sleep medication a little more than a month before he died too and he prescribed him powerful drugs without following up with his patient either.

"and on that visit, I gave him Klonopin or trazodone, to be used not together."

http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/24/doc-i-warned-mj-about-iv-sleep-meds/

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't think it is reasonable to believe MJ was using other drugs other the ones Murray said he prescribed and administered to him. This is backed up by the AR. The drugs just arent there. Nada but what Murray said he gave him.

If he was given a pain shot while getting treatments from Dr. Klein that could have left him still a little unsteady when he left. A lot of people are told they will have to have someone pick them up at a doctor's office because the meds given can make them woozy and they will be unable to drive home.

I do not believe MJ went to Klein's office everyday. In fact I read that Dr. Klein was not even in the office much in the month of May.

I think that MJ was very fit for the tour. The AR show he was a very healthy individual even at the age of 50. In Fact Dr. Rogers said he was more healthy than most his age.

What he did suffer from was insomnia. It is obvious that going on tours may have exacerbated his sleep problems with so much going on in his brain that it would not rest.

Some people seem to have the wrong impression of the AEG contract. The contract could not be canceled by just one side. It had to be agreed upon by both MJ AND AEG. AEG had no more control over the tour than MJ did and like Randy Phillips said they were never ever even close to the show not happening. AEG and MJ were totally together. Randy and MJ had a great upbeat chit chat the last night MJ went home after a fantastic rehearsal. The one that stopped the tour from happening is Conrad Murray.

He was not the one anyway that said he was fit. He had a full physical by a doctor from NY when the contract began and that doctor gave him a full bill of health.

In the criminal case only Murray is to blame. It was not MJ that talked/text/emailed for 47 minutes nor abandoned his patient by leaving him totally alone and even when finding the patient CM did not call 911. These failures belong to CM alone.

MJ did know what must be done. He clearly told Nurse Lee that a doctor would be there monitoring him. Never in his wildest imagination would he have known how wrong he really was when it came to this doctor who was more preoccupied with his ladies than upholding his Hippocratic oath to do no harm. MJ could have never foreseen these bizarre negligent/reckless actions by a doctor being paid $150,000 a month. I wish more than anything he could have known Murray was going to abandon him. I really do.

But if one must judge MJ then don't you think he has already paid the ultimate price for trusting Murray? He certainly paid a much higher price than the man who killed him ever will.:innocent:

 

[amysmom]

But if one must judge MJ then don't you think he has already paid the ultimate price for trusting Murray? He certainly paid a much higher price than the man who killed him ever will.:innocent:

s&bbm

That's a FACT!

I haven't been able to watch too much of the trial but from what I've seen I'm really impressed with the male prosecutor (?) but most of all the Judge..He appears to be such a 'nice' man..He's always so pleasant & was so kind to Nurse CL..What's the majority sentiment in general re: him? Also, has he been fair to both sides or does he favor one over the other? TIA!

 

[Talina]

s&bbm

That's a FACT!

I haven't been able to watch too much of the trial but from what I've seen I'm really impressed with the male prosecutor (?) but most of all the Judge..He appears to be such a 'nice' man..He's always so pleasant & was so kind to Nurse CL..What's the majority sentiment in general re: him? Also, has he been fair to both sides or does he favor one over the other? TIA!

Walgren is the prosecutor you are talking about and he is very impressive, IMO. Very professional with his questioning and excellent cross examiner.

Judge Pastor has run a tight ship with the attorneys and witnesses. I don't see any favoritism at all and he certainly is not allowing any showboating by either side. He does not allow any speaking objections and he will even ask the witness a question if he thinks the question or answer was confusing, just so he can make sure the record is straight.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

s&bbm

That's a FACT!

I haven't been able to watch too much of the trial but from what I've seen I'm really impressed with the male prosecutor (?) but most of all the Judge..He appears to be such a 'nice' man..He's always so pleasant & was so kind to Nurse CL..What's the majority sentiment in general re: him? Also, has he been fair to both sides or does he favor one over the other? TIA!

Morning Amy,

I truly think Judge Pastor may be the fairest Judge I have seen in a case. Maybe it is because he is in LA and has dealt with high profile cases before.

He said very early on.. this case was not going to turn into a three ring circus and he has upheld that each and everyday in his courtroom.

He has the best demeanor even when I know he must be very frustrated at times. He never lets it show in front of the jury.

I think he has been fair to both sides. The problem he has continuously had to put up with is his prior rulings being ignored by the DT repeatedly.

He told both of them very clearly even starting in the pre-trial hearings this was not about other doctors, MJ or CM's financial or personal lives but it is about what happened in MJs bedroom on June 25, 2009 that caused the death of MJ.

As far as David Walgren well he is highly well liked and has been given rave reviews about how he has tried this case. He certainly is a masterful attorney no doubt and Ms. Brazil is very professional too.

As a side note. David even has a fan club on FaceBook!:floorlaugh:

 

[amysmom]

Walgren is the prosecutor you are talking about and he is very impressive, IMO. Very professional with his questioning and excellent cross examiner.

Judge Pastor has run a tight ship with the attorneys and witnesses. I don't see any favoritism at all and he certainly is not allowing any showboating by either side. He does not allow any speaking objections and he will even ask the witness a question if he thinks the question or answer was confusing, just so he can make sure the record is straight.

It seems they picked the 'perfect' Judge & prosecutor..I'm glad cos MJ deserves nothing LESS! imho

 

[amysmom]

Morning Amy,

I truly think Judge Pastor may be the fairest Judge I have seen in a case. Maybe it is because he is in LA and has dealt with high profile cases before.

He said very early on.. this case was not going to turn into a three ring circus and he has upheld that each and everyday in his courtroom.

He has the best demeanor even when I know he must be very frustrated at times. He never lets it show in front of the jury.

I think he has been fair to both sides. The problem he has continuously had to put up with is his prior rulings being ignored by the DT repeatedly.

He told both of them very clearly even starting in the pre-trial hearings this was not about other doctors, MJ or CM's financial or personal lives but it is about what happened in MJs bedroom on June 25, 2009 that caused the death of MJ.

As far as David Walgren well he is highly well liked and has been given rave reviews about how he has tried this case. He certainly is a masterful attorney no doubt and Ms. Brazil is very professional too.

As a side note. David even has a fan club on FaceBook!:floorlaugh:

Morning Ocean,

That's really kewl about David's fan club

Has he tried any other high profile cases I may know about?

I love the Judge's demeanor..They should ALL be like him. <sigh>

I don't like the defense team at all..They're more obnoxious then most IF that's even possible. :maddening:

 

[amysmom]

TG! they stopped with the 'character' witnesses for the defense..What a big fat JOKE! I'm not even sure what the point was..I was really stunned when that patient went over to Murray & KISSED him on the forehead after he got off the stand..Whether the defense put him up to it or it was his own idea it never should've happened..I don't get where the bailiff was..I thought their job was to escort the witness to the door. :waitasec: