Conrad Murray trial -Day twelve.

Being a narcissist, I think he believes everything will be fine. He expects that the jury will be swayed by his charms.

I think the DT will try and present a defense. They are putting up Dr White, to try and confuse the jury somehow. He is supposedly a propofil expert, so I imagine he will say that the autopsy reports were mistaken somehow.

But I do not think the defense will prevail. Just plain old common sense tells us that Murray should have never set up that deadly situation for MJ.

CM has charm? I just see a zombie sitting at that table. I even check to see if he's breathing. The dude doesn't move a single muscle -- facial or otherwise.

Or are you talking about the charming DA's? :floorlaugh:

Mel
 
I have a few questions:

1. If Dr Shafer & Dr White are very good friends, isn't it a conflict of interest that they're testifying on opposite teams?

2. Why was Dr White (?) sitting directly behind the lawyers, instead of in the audience section?

3. Don't the witnesses have to wait outside the courtroom before they testify & when a witness for the opposite team is testifying?

Thanx in advance

1. Well, I suppose it may cause a conflict or strain in their personal or professional relationship but, legally, there is no conflict that would prevent them from being on opposing sides of this trial.

2. Good question about why was Dr.White directly behind the attorneys. The only thing I can think of is the court room is small and there may not have been a seat for him so they made one there.

3. Yes, generally witnesses are not allowed in the court room before they testify and even not afterwards (usually) until they have been excused and not subject to recall. However, for some reason (perhaps different in California) these two anesthesiologists are allowed in the court room for each others testimony. I've heard that talked about on tv in recent days but they didn't expand on it enough to explain why that is the case in this trial.
 
I heard on JVM that he is a very Well Known expert witness. I have never heard of him. With what has happened over the last 2 days he will need to be a miracle witness. jmoo


How in the world will he (or any other doctor) be able to handle a question about Standard of Care in relation to what CM did/didn't do? It boggles the mind....
 
I think Murray looks worried, I think I see some fear in his eyes when these doctors are emphasizing how unconscionable his actions were. I would be scared out of my mind, he is not looking good at all. When the trial first started, I thought there might be a slight chance he could skate, but now..... not so much.


I agree, TxLady -- More than a couple of times I have seen a look on his face of almost being physically sick. It's like he was holding his breath, and saying, "What now?" Yes, it's far from the arrogant smirk he was wearing earlier in this trial.

Maybe he's not sleeping too well...
icon6.gif
 
I have a few questions:

1. If Dr Shafer & Dr White are very good friends, isn't it a conflict of interest that they're testifying on opposite teams?

2. Why was Dr White (?) sitting directly behind the lawyers, instead of in the audience section?

3. Don't the witnesses have to wait outside the courtroom before they testify & when a witness for the opposite team is testifying?

Thanx in advance

1. no

2 and 3. Expert witnesses are not subject to the 'rule' of excluding witnesses from the courtroom. They are permitted to sit in the courtroom and assist the attorneys for their side in the cross examination, as well as to listen to the other side's experts as part of the basis for their own testimony.

:seeya:
 
How in the world will he (or any other doctor) be able to handle a question about Standard of Care in relation to what CM did/didn't do? It boggles the mind....

I think the DT will try to keep the scope of direct very limited so that the state cannot expound on other issues such as standard of care.

If White has been assisting the DT with their questions then...umm... all I can say is they aren't doing well at all and are making no headway with any of the expert witnesses thus far.

In fact at times it was like Flanagan was assisting the state instead of the defense.

IMO
 
Has anyone noticed how differently Murray talks on his youtube infomercial from when he is speaking with LE in the interview?

Does he have one accent for his followers and another one in his professional life?

Just thought its interesting.

IMO
 
I enjoyed your story, but I don't have one.
I loved how MJ invented the MoonWalk and I also really liked Thriller, MJ was an amazing entertainer and talent. I must admit that I wasn't a big fan because I wasn't into pop music, I guess. I realize that I missed out.

I did watch the molestation trial and really didn't know what to think of it all.
I would have found him Not Guilty if I had been on the jury, because the people that claimed he was guilty just didn't seem trustworthy. They just weren't believable on the witness stand. I always thought that they were out for money.
It really is very sad that such a talented man, with everything in his favor, had such a tragic end to his life.
He needed someone around him to be positive and get him back on track.

I hate to burst your bubble EPfan but MJ didn't invent the moon walk step. I'm an old rock n' roller and saw that same step done by one of the guys in the Midnighters, Hank Ballards' group in a stage show in Pittsburgh way back in 1958, I think it was. MJ did it, and brought it into fame for sure but it was around long before. I sure miss those days.
jmo
 
Just fyi - MJ popularized the dance move but he didn't invent it. I agree Thriller was and still is amazing. You were at the molestation trial?

LadyL, I just added a post that I saw that step long ago. So, I'm with ya on that. But MJ certainly was quite a dancer. I think in his "Bad" video, a lot of the steps resembled ones from West Side Story.
jmo
 
Dr. Murray’s bail was set at $75,000 and usually they have to pay 10% so Dr. Murray only had to pay $750.00 to remain out-of-jail right? That's peanuts.

CM’s arraignment was February 8 2009 so he was free to practice medicine for over 2 1/2 years after Mr. Jackson’s death. No wonder he isn't stressed out too badly.

OJ was denied bail because he was charged with double murder in 2005 and I don't know of any cases where a person charged with murder was allowed to post bail.

That Dr. Murray was able to remain a free man and practice medicine until the trial started is what makes his case unique imo, but then involuntary manslaughter is not first degree murder. Maybe he wouldn't have been allowed to post bail if he was charged with first degree murder. The fact he's a doctor "cushions the blow".

If he is found guilty and sent to prison, he'll likely be released early on good behavior unless the Court stipulates otherwise at his sentencing hearing right?

<snipped>

Murray's bail was set at $75,000, three times greater than the bail usually set for such crimes. Without being handcuffed, Murray was then taken into custody for booking. He must surrender his passport, allowing him to travel within the United States but not out of the country. Prosecutors had been seeking bail of $300,000, but Superior Court Judge Keith L. Schwartz rejected that amount. The involuntary-manslaughter charge carries a maximum jail sentence of four years.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/16...-doctor-conrad-murray-pleads-not-guilty.jhtml

OT: "Sidney Crosby appears to have cleared a hurdle in his recovery from a concussion, with the Pittsburgh Penguins announcing through their Twitter feed Thursday that the captain is wearing a black helmet along with his teammates at practice.

"I&#8217;m cleared for full contact. It&#8217;s a good step in the right direction," Crosby said after practice. "We&#8217;ll see how it goes for the next little bit.&#8221;

http://sports.ca.msn.com/top-stories/crosby-cleared-for-practice-contact-16
 
I hate to burst your bubble EPfan but MJ didn't invent the moon walk step. I'm an old rock n' roller and saw that same step done by one of the guys in the Midnighters, Hank Ballards' group in a stage show in Pittsburgh way back in 1958, I think it was. MJ did it, and brought it into fame for sure but it was around long before. I sure miss those days.
jmo

While that may be true no one will be remembered for it more than Michael Jackson. He took the step and made it his own unique dance. I did see him give credit to the other dancers who had done it before him.

I use to become so mesmerized when he did the moon walk. I kept looking for some gimmick because I just couldnt believe someone could be this light on their feet like they could float.

Oh my gosh now I have to go to youtube and see him perform it again.:floorlaugh: I love all of his videos and keep finding more songs I love.

I wasnt a big MJ fan until after he died.:banghead: Now I wish I had paid much closer attention to the magnificent talented man all throughout his career. His songs have such deep meaning and I could watch him dance for hours I think. Now I listen to his songs at least three times a week and have watched 'This Is It' three times now.

I remember seeing him at the Super Bowl Half Time shows and I was blown away and didn't want it to stop. He did give the illusion that he was so light on his feet that it made one think he could levitate and fly.

There will never be another entertainer like him, imo.

IMO
 
LadyL, I just added a post that I saw that step long ago. So, I'm with ya on that. But MJ certainly was quite a dancer. I think in his "Bad" video, a lot of the steps resembled ones from West Side Story.
jmo

When Fred Astaire said he believed Michael was the best dancer he had ever seen it had to make Michael feel so elated.

IMO
 
I dont agree and do agree with the above article.

That Dr. Murray was able to remain a free man and practice medicine until the trial started is what makes his case unique imo, but then involuntary manslaughter is not first degree murder. Maybe he wouldn't have been allowed to post bail if he was charged with first degree murder. The fact he's a doctor "cushions the blow".

Anyone charged with IM is granted bail. Lower than the amount set in CMs case.

Even if he had been charged with first degree he would have been granted bail. Remember Robert Blake and Susan Polk? Both were out on bail. The only reason bail wouldnt be granted is if it was a captial case (DP) i.e. Scott Peterson.

I do agree that being a doctor cushions the blow. I think if a regular person had adminstered this deadly drugs to MJ and acted in the same gross neglectful manner the charge would be higher.

In our society we tend to put doctors above the law.
 
Dr. Conrad admitted the first time he treated MJ for an Upper Respirator Infection (URI) was in 2006 and he treated him again 3 or 4 times when the condition recurred so it sounds like his lung infection was chronic. (see LAPD interview, page 100)

Would a URI cause the lung injury mentioned in the autopsy report?

In December 2008, author and celebrity commentator Ian Halperin claimed Michael had a potentially fatal lung disease. However, the singer's spokesman dismissed the claims: "Mr. Jackson is in fine health and finalizing negotiations with a major entertainment company and television network for both a world tour and a series of specials and appearances."

In February 2009, there were reports in the media stating Michael Jackson developed a potentially "flesh-eating" superbug while having surgery to reconstruct his nose; however on pg 102 of the LAPD interview, Dr. Murray said &#8220;Michael had very severe fungal mycosis, which is a fungal infection that took over every toe and spread into his flesh. He treated his fungal infection orally for 3 months with Lamisil, which comes in a cream, but instead he gave him tablets which is pretty tough on the liver.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/1399863/Michael-Jackson-battles-flesh-eating-superbug
 
Dr. Murray&#8217;s bail was set at $75,000 and usually they have to pay 10% so Dr. Murray only had to pay $750.00 to remain out-of-jail right? That's peanuts.
<snipped>

1) Actually, 10% of $75,000 is $7,500 not $750.

2) If Dr. Murray had property with equity exceeding 150% of $75,000 (i.e. equity of at least $112,500) then he could post a property bond with the court instead of paying the $7,500 bail premium to the bail bond company.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions
But since I am a licensed attorney practicing criminal defense in California,
my opinions about California criminal law/procedures are pretty reliable
 
I dont agree and do agree with the above article.

That Dr. Murray was able to remain a free man and practice medicine until the trial started is what makes his case unique imo, but then involuntary manslaughter is not first degree murder. Maybe he wouldn't have been allowed to post bail if he was charged with first degree murder. The fact he's a doctor "cushions the blow".

Anyone charged with IM is granted bail. Lower than the amount set in CMs case.

Even if he had been charged with first degree he would have been granted bail. Remember Robert Blake and Susan Polk? Both were out on bail. The only reason bail wouldnt be granted is if it was a captial case (DP) i.e. Scott Peterson.

I do agree that being a doctor cushions the blow. I think if a regular person had adminstered this deadly drugs to MJ and acted in the same gross neglectful manner the charge would be higher.

In our society we tend to put doctors above the law.

Thank you oceanblueeyes for answering my questions.

Prosecutors had been seeking bail of $300,000 but bail is set at $25,000 for IV Manslaughter. Paying $750 for bail costs wouldn&#8217;t hurt him one little bit. Loosing his medical license might though.

Can anyone recall whether any of his patients stopped going to him after he was charged with manslaughter?

Will CM be fined and ordered to pay court costs only if he is found guilty?

AFAIK he hired his attorneys so he&#8217;ll have to pay his lawyera fees.

Was OJ&#8217;s case in 2005 a capital case since the State of California has the death penalty?

Social workers too are "above the law".
 
<snipped>

1) Actually, 10% of $75,000 is $7,500 not $750.

2) If Dr. Murray had property with equity exceeding 150% of $75,000 (i.e. equity of at least $112,500) then he could post a property bond with the court instead of paying the $7,500 bail premium to the bail bond company.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions
But since I am a licensed attorney practicing criminal defense in California,
my opinions about California criminal law/procedures are pretty reliable

Thanks Katprint. I knew $750 wasn't right.

I'm not sure if Dr. Murray co-owns the house he once shared with his wife. He shares an apartment with Nicole Alverez and his son and pays $2500 a month for rent. It could be an apartment that he owns, IDK.

He doesn't get the bail money back or does he? Could you explain how this works please because I've forgotten.
 
Thanks Katprint. I knew $750 wasn't right.

I'm not sure if Dr. Murray co-owns the house he once shared with his wife. He shares an apartment with Nicole Alverez and his son and pays $2500 a month for rent. It could be an apartment that he owns, IDK.

He doesn't get the bail money back or does he? Could you explain how this works please because I've forgotten.
If you pay a bail bond premium (i.e. the 10% of the bail amount) to the bail bond company, you don't get that premium back. It is like paying a car insurance premium, or a life insurance premium, or a health insurance premium. It's gone forever.

If you post cash bail directly with the court (i.e. the entire bail amount) then you get that all of that cash bail back after the trial is over.

If you post a property bond with the court, you may have to pay certain related expenses like title search, appraisal fees, escrow costs, etc. and those expenses are gone forever but they are usually much less than the bail bond premium would have been.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions
 
Dr. Conrad admitted the first time he treated MJ for an Upper Respirator Infection (URI) was in 2006 and he treated him again 3 or 4 times when the condition recurred so it sounds like his lung infection was chronic. (see LAPD interview, page 100)

Would a URI cause the lung injury mentioned in the autopsy report?

In December 2008, author and celebrity commentator Ian Halperin claimed Michael had a potentially fatal lung disease. However, the singer's spokesman dismissed the claims: "Mr. Jackson is in fine health and finalizing negotiations with a major entertainment company and television network for both a world tour and a series of specials and appearances."

In February 2009, there were reports in the media stating Michael Jackson developed a potentially "flesh-eating" superbug while having surgery to reconstruct his nose; however on pg 102 of the LAPD interview, Dr. Murray said &#8220;Michael had very severe fungal mycosis, which is a fungal infection that took over every toe and spread into his flesh. He treated his fungal infection orally for 3 months with Lamisil, which comes in a cream, but instead he gave him tablets which is pretty tough on the liver.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/1399863/Michael-Jackson-battles-flesh-eating-superbug

I have always wished Halprien would just shut up and go away. He puts out so many outlandish stories and usually sells his ghoulish stories to tabloids.

Chronic inflammation of the lungs is quite common starting with the very young to the very old. The ME said the inflammation in the lungs did not contribute to his death and that overall MJ was a lot healthier than others his age. I am still shocked that he was a man of 50 years old but had no plaque build up whatsoever in his arteries.

And unfortunately some can develop a nail fungal infection which can usually be cleared up with proper medication.

MJs liver was fine and his other internal organs were in good shape.

The most surprising thing in the AR to me is the liver and kidneys were healthy and one would think if someone had supposedly been addicted to strong drugs for many years it would have left scarring but both organs were healthy.

Now he was 50 years old and not 20 so he had a few things he was dealing with at the time of his death but nothing that would have killed him.

That is the sad thing about all of this. MJ was in overall good health and this death should not have happened.

If only Murray had been as attentive to his patient as he was in making phone calls to his ladies that day then MJ would be alive today.

IMO
 
I had a glimmer of where Flannegan is going.

If you had a resistant patient would you hang in there? He is trying to show what a good Dr. is client was to try and get MJ off the propofol, and not just walk away.

Except that propofol is not easy to obtain in the same way as, say, oxycontin, even for MJ, so it's not like he could just throw up his hands and say "oh he'll just get it somewhere else!" I'm pretty sure Walgreens doesn't carry it because NOBODY uses it outside of a hospital.
 

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