Cooper Harris - Sidebar Thread

Discussion in 'Cooper Harris' started by tlcya, Apr 20, 2016.

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  1. Niner

    Niner Long time Websleuther

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    Thank you JerseyGirl - but I wish they would have put the Juror #s in front of the people mentioned in the first paragraph.... :gaah: LOL!
    Thanks for posting that - I'll check out that website - it will be my 3 of 4 trial views!

    Does anyone know how I can get to Wild About Trial's tweets on this case? I tried, but don't know "how" to navigate over there... yeah, I'm old! :D

    TIA!!
     


  2. coeurfragile

    coeurfragile Active Member

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    I'm not the OP but I personally think they will not get a change of venue.

    It's kind of hard to claim you can't find any jurors and that there is a lot of bias when you qualified 40ish potential jurors in two weeks time.

    If you had done jury selection for two weeks and were only at a dozen or less jurors you felt were qualified, that might be a different issue.

    But claiming that NOW, when you have the number of jurors the judge was looking for? How can you claim you can't find any prospective jurors?

    Some of them have heard of the case and said they could be impartial. Many of them haven't followed the news at all. Of course you had jurors state he was Guilty and they could not change their minds, but none of these individuals are in the qualified jury pool.
     
  3. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    From what I've seen so far (and read of her), I wouldn't be surprised if this judge ruled against a change of venue, but IMO it will be a bad ruling if she doesn't.

    6 jurors going in with a bias at best, a conclusion of guilt at worse, is a LOT. RH deserves a fair trial no matter the charges, and no matter what public opinion is about him or his guilt, and it's this judge's obligation to ensure that he gets one.

    (And the DT is allowed to try again and again and again with the same motions, as amply and painfully demonstrated in the J Arias trial). ;)
     
  4. eileenhawkeye

    eileenhawkeye Active Member

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    Another thing is...If a trial likes this, where there has been tons of coverage in the local area, every single juror is aware of the case, and majority or at least a significant % already think the defendant is guilty, is not moved, or even has a jury brought in from another county, then what cases are getting moved?
     
  5. ms madge

    ms madge New Member

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    Here in Australia, the defendant has the right to request a jury trial or a bench trial (judge only). Is this a thing in the US too? The defense might not be able to emotionally manipulate the judge like they think they can a jury, but at least a judge should be able to be properly impartial and view all evidence on its merits and rule according to the statutes.
     
  6. coeurfragile

    coeurfragile Active Member

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    They haven't picked the final jury panel yet though, and these potential jurors are likely to still be stricken. I think it's unreasonable to expect a jury pool where no one has ever watched the news or heard about a case in passing.
     
  7. G&AMom

    G&AMom Verified Mikette

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    We do have the same thing, but the defendant has to request a bench trial. The judge can't force him to have one because they can't find enough unbiased jurors.

    Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk
     
  8. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Two good points, IMO. Further, I'm thinking that just about everyone who lives in Georgia did at least read/watch MSM when this tragedy occurred, and many of them then went on about their lives and essentially forgot about it except perhaps when MSM announced a bit of news on it. The judge would/should know about this kind of thing in her own area and that would certainly figure-in to a decision on this.

    I've watched more trials in NC than anywhere else, and I know that the judges here -- who, IMO, are very good and as non-biased as possible -- are so aware/afraid of one of their cases being overturned that they bend over backwards to accommodate things that occur before and during a trial. They do try to keep expenses down, and they know that bringing in an "other county" jury is an added expense and must have good reason behind the decision, but a total re-trial is many times over more expensive, and in so many ways.

    It will be interesting to see what happens on this one, won't it?
     
  9. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    The right to a fair trial is guaranteed by the 6th amendment of the US Constitution. The US Supreme Court has upheld that pretrial publicity can so taint a jury as to deprive defendants of their due process right. How biased must prospective jurors be to meet that standard?


    US SUPREME COURT : PRETRIAL PUBLICITY


    "The U.S. Supreme Court has grappled with the issue of pretrial publicity since the 1960s. In Irvin v. Dowd, 366 U.S. 717, 81 S. Ct. 1639, 6 L. Ed. 2d 751 (1961), the defendant, Leslie Irvin, was convicted of committing six murders in a rural area of Indiana.

    The crimes generated extensive media coverage. Irvin argued that the pretrial publicity prevented him from receiving a fair trial by an impartial jury.

    The Court agreed, noting that eight of the twelve jurors who heard the case had decided that Irvin was guilty before the trial began.

    Despite these admissions, the trial judge accepted as conclusive the jurors' statements that they would be able to render an impartial verdict.

    The Court held that the substantial publicity surrounding the case made the trial judge's determination of juror impartiality erroneous.

    It set out a basic rule that when pretrial publicity has been substantial, a trial court should not necessarily accept a juror's assertion of impartiality. In these cases a presumption is raised that the jurors are biased.


    CONTAMINATED JURY POOL
    .
    In Mu'min v. Virginia, 500 U.S. 415, 111 S. Ct. 1899, 114 L. Ed. 2d 493 (1991), the Supreme Court held that the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment does not mandate that prospective jurors be asked in Voir Dire examinations about specific information concerning the case that they have seen or heard in the media.

    The Sixth Amendment's impartial jury requirement will be satisfied when jurors do not admit during voir dire that they have been prejudiced by pretrial publicity.

    (( http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Pretrial+Publicity))



    ---------------------------------------------------------

    GEORGIA CODE, CHANGE OF VENUE O.C.G.A. 17-7-150 (2010)


    17-7-150. Procedures for change of venue; transfer of case; appeal from denial of change of venue


    (a) (1) The defendant, in any criminal case in which a trial by jury is provided, may move in writing for a change of venue, whenever, in the defendant's or defense counsel's judgment, an impartial jury cannot be obtained in the county where the crime is alleged to have been committed.


    Upon the hearing of the motion it shall not be necessary to examine all persons in the county liable to serve on juries, but the judge shall hear evidence by affidavit or oral testimony in support of or against the motion.


    --------------------------------------


    FWIW---View of a GA defense attorney



    " in Georgia, the standard is not simply whether or not there has been a lot of news media attention to a case. Instead, a Georgia criminal defense lawyer must also show that, because of the pervasive publicity, it would be impossible to select an impartial jury composed of jurors who have not formed fixed opinions about the guilt or innocence of the accused.

    Often, it has been my experience that a Georgia judge will not rule on a motion for a change of venue until voir dire occurs, i.e. during jury selection. There, the jurors can be questioned at length by both sides, the prosecutor and the defense attorney, in order to make, or refute, a case that an impartial jury cannot be obtained and that the trial must be moved.

    ((http://whitecollarcrimeingeorgia.blogspot.com/2011/01/motion-for-change-of-venue-in-criminal.html))

    -----------------------------------

    IMO- if the judge denies the motion to change venue, her denial will be based on her opinion that she can seat a jury who have not formed FIXED opinions about his guilt. Bias-yes, opinions-yes, but not opinions so firmly held they can't be changed at trial.
     
  10. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    I agree that seating the completely uninformed is unreasonable, and IMO, undesirable. The CFCA trial was a fine example of how THAT turns out. But hearing about a case and forming an opinion of guilt are two different things. IMO voir dire has made it pretty clear that pre-trial publicity has been substantial enough to pose a risk to RH's right to a fair trial in Cobb County. jmo.
     
  11. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    Hi Niner :)

    For finding Wild (you should be able to click on a Twitter link from either FB or the website):


    WEBSITE: http://www.wildabouttrial.com

    TWITTER: Twitter @WildAboutTrial

    FACEBOOK : https://www.facebook.com/wildabouttrial
     
  12. DaleTray

    DaleTray Active Member

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  13. eileenhawkeye

    eileenhawkeye Active Member

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    I think that if they move the trial out of the area that gets Atlanta media (I suggested a county near Augusta with similiar demographics to Cobb as an alternative), the amount of jurors who have strong opinions made about the case will dramatically decrease. I think it's different when it happens in your backyard v. two hours away.
     
  14. Hope4More

    Hope4More Well-Known Member

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    From AJC: (http://www.myajc.com/news/news/local/justin-ross-harris-lawyers-seek-change-of-venue-in/nrD9D/)



    " Legal observers say (the change of venue ) has little chance of being granted.

    That opinion is based not so much on the merits of the motion but rather the judge who will decide it, said Marietta criminal defense attorney Ashleigh Merchant, who is not involved in this case.

    “I find it very unlikely she would grant a change of venue,” Merchant said of Cobb County Superior Court Judge Mary Staley.

    Staley, a former prosecutor with a reputation for being tough on defendants and their lawyers, scheduled a hearing Monday morning and said she expects to rule before lunch."



    Yep. A hanging judge. Her ruling against severing the sex with minors charges against RH said it all, IMO. If Staley didn’t believe those charges too prejudicial to allow in the State’s core case against RH, she’s set one mighty high bar for the DT to have to clear…on everything.
     
  15. Niner

    Niner Long time Websleuther

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  16. Niner

    Niner Long time Websleuther

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    Okay.... lost again! :scared: LOL!

    I went to the Twitter account, and looked thru all the subjects - scrolled down, found #JustinRossHarris, clicked on that, but all there is, is a video - "where" do I find the actual Tweets from the days during trial... ? :confused:

    An "actual" link to that would TRULY be appreciated!! :D

    What I have is: there were 31 after Monday I believe - scratched #22; than at the end of Friday they had 41. Well, I have 15 jurors on my list, going from the tweets that were posted here and some newspaper articles, that I don't know "which" ones got scratched. Should I list the ones I have extras of and someone can tell me?

    TIA!
     
  17. tlcya

    tlcya Old and Tired Websleuth

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    niner, try this: Go to WildAboutTrial the Justin Ross Harris live stream section (direct link HERE). Scroll down the page a bit to where there are tweets in a window just below the "chat" window. Scroll down through those to go back to the 29th and days prior. That is where I am seeing the tweets about the juror candidates.
     
  18. sonjay

    sonjay Active Member

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    I wonder how often verdicts from her courtroom get overturned on appeal. I favor no-nonsense judges who don't coddle criminals, but there's such a thing as being "too tough." If the judge is so "tough" that the defendant doesn't get a fair trial, that's grounds for appeal.
     
  19. LinasK

    LinasK Verified insider- Mark Dribin case

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    You might be surprised- sometimes a case doesn't get much/any publicity (just discovered some cases in San Diego that I was around for and never heard about), and some people don't pay attention to the news (people in Phoenix who hadn't heard of Jodi Arias).
     
  20. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Good points, LinasK! Yep, not everybody is as curious as a cat, or Alice or Websleuthers!
    :)
     
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