Court Appearances

[nettie_82]

Chatham jail is said to be a much more laid back jail with many more perks! But I will let someone else speak more on that who has more info about that particular jail. I have just heard that he has coffee, phone, books, tv, lengthy visits, etc. I believe it only has 53 beds but is still classified as maximum security according to this.
http://windsoressex.cioc.ca/record/WIN2901

 

[maxfactor]

Chatham jail is said to be a much more laid back jail with many more perks! But I will let someone else speak more on that who has more info about that particular jail. I have just heard that he has coffee, phone, books, tv, lengthy visits, etc. I believe it only has 53 beds but is still classified as maximum security according to this.
http://windsoressex.cioc.ca/record/WIN2901

Tori doesn't have any of those things :furious:

 

[puppyraiser]

Chatham seems to be the place they send prisoners who are having a somewhat difficult time in their current location. Chatham is a smaller city.... maybe less chance of other inmates knowing the case or family members of the victim.


And yes, there does seem to be a few more "perks" since it is a smaller jail.

 

[antiquegirl]

If and when this man is tried and convicted in a court of law, I will join you in your outrage and fury. But until that time, as a Canadian and a believer in our justice system, I will set aside my torch and pitchfork until that verdict comes in.

 

[dilbert]

If and when this man is tried and convicted in a court of law, I will join you in your outrage and fury. But until that time, as a Canadian and a believer in our justice system, I will set aside my torch and pitchfork until that verdict comes in.

agreed!!!

 

[CuriousJorge]

Are You One of These? And if so, Which One are You???

I laughed so hard when I read this.

http://expertaccess.cincom.com/2009/09/cynics-brown-nosers-and-fence-sitter’s/

 

[CuriousJorge]

I listened to the press conference again tonight and it brought back such sadness and a lot of questions.

The fact that TLM was originally charged with Accessory after the Fact of Murder says volumes in itself. MR's charges have always remained First Degree Murder. Just leaves me with raw nerves thinking how this murder played out. Some people are absolute monsters. Obviously she played a role in TS's death, by leading her to her death, but my gut tells me someone played a bigger role in her death.

For anyone who is interested in watching the live conference again from May 20th, announcing the arrests
http://woodstocksentinelreview.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1547533

 

[nobodyzgirl]

I listened to the press conference again tonight and it brought back such sadness and a lot of questions.

The fact that TLM was originally charged with Accessory after the Fact of Murder says volumes in itself. MR's charges have always remained First Degree Murder. Just leaves me with raw nerves thinking how this murder played out. Some people are absolute monsters. Obviously she played a role in TS's death, by leading her to her death, but my gut tells me someone played a bigger role in her death.

For anyone who is interested in watching the live conference again from May 20th, announcing the arrests
http://woodstocksentinelreview.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1547533

The fact that TLM's charges were changed from Accessory after the Fact to First Degree, actually lead me to believe that she played a much larger role in this and could very well have instigated the entire thing. LE must have had the evidence to substantiate it which they provided to the Crown to get her charge changed to First Degree.

 

[antiquegirl]

The fact that TLM's charges were changed from Accessory after the Fact to First Degree, actually lead me to believe that she played a much larger role in this and could very well have instigated the entire thing. LE must have had the evidence to substantiate it which they provided to the Crown to get her charge changed to First Degree.

I think that LE was playing her with the lesser charges in order to get her to cooperate with information about Tori's whereabouts. Once she provided them with an approximate location, or way to find it, they upgraded the charges - fully having intended to do so right from the beginning.

We have to remember that LE already had the video evidence of TLM leading Tori away, after which the little girl was not seen alive again. We know what Canadian law states - that anyone involved in an abduction where a death occurs is automatically charged with First Degree Murder, regardless of who is responsible for the death. LE must have known this when TLM was initially charged.

"First degree murder is a murder which is (1) planned and deliberate, (2) contracted, (3) committed against an identified peace officer, (4) while committing or attempting to commit one of the following offences (hijacking an aircraft, sexual assault, sexual assault with a weapon, aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping and forcible confinement or hostage taking), (5) while committing criminal harassment, (6) committed during terrorist activity, (7) while using explosives in association with a criminal organization, or (8) while committing intimidation.[51]"

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder[/ame]


MOO

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Judicial Pretrial - October 30, 2009

Court Appearance - November 12, 2009

http://woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2136290

 

[nonfictionrocks]

I was listening to the podcast on the arrest of Michael Sandham of Bandido fame in Manitoba and near the end of the audio recording the police officer mentions that there are members of the media hanging around the perimeter of his house and offers to place a blanket over Michael's head when he is climbing into the back of the cruiser. I was wondering if this is some kind of standard operating procedure that LE offer this to someone about to enter a media gauntlet as most "prisoners" are in handcuffs and would need some assistance covering their heads with their own shirts or jackets. We saw TLM enter the court with her lawyer (and police officers) but she may have been advised against it prior to her arrival but we only saw MR leaving the court being escorted out by LE.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/bandidos/2009/10/22/11491921.html

 

[nobodyzgirl]

I was listening to the podcast on the arrest of Michael Sandham of Bandido fame in Manitoba and near the end of the audio recording the police officer mentions that there are members of the media hanging around the perimeter of his house and offers to place a blanket over Michael's head when he is climbing into the back of the cruiser. I was wondering if this is some kind of standard operating procedure that LE offer this to someone about to enter a media gauntlet as most "prisoners" are in handcuffs and would need some assistance covering their heads with their own shirts or jackets. We saw TLM enter the court with her lawyer (and police officers) but she may have been advised against it prior to her arrival but we only saw MR leaving the court being escorted out by LE.

That's a really good question NFR. I'm not sure if it is standard procedure or not, though when I think about it, a lot of times when someone is arrested, they seem to have their head covered (or at least that what I've noticed). I know that M. Sandham was an ex-police officer in Winnipeg, so they may have asked him because of that alone. Someone may know better than I that can answer the question.

 

[CuriousJorge]

Reading through some oldie posts, I came upon this post #183, page 8. If PepperFritz knew anything regarding pleas, I believe this to be the case. No matter what evidence they have against MR...see bold below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittymama
If both MTR and TLM plead guilty, will that mean this case will just quietly go away? We'll never find out what happened, how TLM got Tori to go with her, who did what, what the motivation was, etc? Nothing at all?

Quote response:
Originally posted by PepperFritz
When someone pleads Guilty to a crime, they must make a full "recounting" of the crime in open court before a judge. So everything would become public knowledge at that point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittymama
Also, is there any possibility of MTR pleading "Not Guilty" if the evidence against him, which he and his lawyer are of course privy to, is irrefutable?

Quote response:
Originally posted by PepperFritz
Sure. It's often those cases which DO go to trial. The evidence is so overwhelming that the Crown does not offer the accused a deal, so he figures he's got nothing to lose by his lawyer trying to argue reasonable doubt. In most cases the Crown would offer a deal just to avoid the expense of a trial. However, in a high-profile case like this where there is strong public feeling, they don't really have that option. So if MR wants to go to trial -- no matter how overwhelming the evidence is against him -- then there will be a trial.

 

[christine2448]

Passing on what DC/Mabel told me in e-mails and PMs

If u share someone's private messages or private emails, make sure you have their permission to do so, otherwise, your breaking the rules. Headsup, TIA.

 

[antiquegirl]

If u share someone's private messages or private emails, make sure you have their permission to do so, otherwise, your breaking the rules. Headsup, TIA.

Thanks, Christine, but I was referring to the past. Even then I did have their permission. However, since this practice has been discouraged, I no longer do it.

 

[flipflop]

MTR has a judical pretrial set for Oct 30 (tomorrow) what happens at these judical pretrials?

 

[dilbert]

MTR has a judical pretrial set for Oct 30 (tomorrow) what happens at these judical pretrials?

it's a continuation of the meeting they had earlier this month.

The negotiations with the Crown can take place over one or more meetings and the discussions are wide ranging. Sometimes, one side has to get more information or input, be it from the police officer or witness or from the client. The meetings may involve discussions of guilt or innocence, weaknesses and strengths of the case, and alternate lesser charges. We may discuss the admissibility of certain evidence. We discuss whether there have been any Charter infringements and any applications that need to be brought to assert those infringements.

this explains it quite well.

http://info.lawyershop.ca/criminal/index.php/archives/2009/06/13/what-happens-at-pre-trial-conferences-and-judicial-pre-trial-conferences/

 

[antiquegirl]

it's a continuation of the meeting they had earlier this month.



this explains it quite well.

http://info.lawyershop.ca/criminal/index.php/archives/2009/06/13/what-happens-at-pre-trial-conferences-and-judicial-pre-trial-conferences/

Thanks, Dilbert. This was very helpful. I'm interested in this part:

"This is called the judicial pre-trial conference or JPT. If after this meeting, we cannot agree on a way to resolve a charge, then we need to set a date for the trial."

What does it mean "a way to resolve a charge"? Does it mean that it will be decided if the charges stay or are dismissed? Presumably, if they're not dismissed (IMO, unlikely), can we hope that a date will be set for the trial tomorrow? If so, will the media be informed?

 

[dilbert]

Thanks, Dilbert. This was very helpful. I'm interested in this part:

"This is called the judicial pre-trial conference or JPT. If after this meeting, we cannot agree on a way to resolve a charge, then we need to set a date for the trial."

What does it mean "a way to resolve a charge"? Does it mean that it will be decided if the charges stay or are dismissed? Presumably, if they're not dismissed (IMO, unlikely), can we hope that a date will be set for the trial tomorrow? If so, will the media be informed?

you know, i was wondering about that myself and if this meeting is kind of like when someone is indicted in the US by a grand jury.
i have no knowlegde of the law aside from what i find when i google, so i'm wondering if these meetings are to decide if there is enough evidence to go to trial or where plea bargains are worked out?

someone told me that these meetings are never publicized but we may learn the outcome on Nov. 12 2009, MR's next court appearance.

 

[dilbert]

also, keep in mind this is written by a defense attorney but this was interesting as well.

It’s at this time that I have a chance to provide the Crown with information that they would not otherwise have in the hopes that I can convince the Crown to change their view or their position regarding the case. It’s important to remember that, when the case comes in from the police, the Crown reviews it and comes to an initial assessment but they haven’t heard anything about the other side. This is the time that I have the opportunity to provide certain information that may be beneficial to my client’s case.